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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    "The Carolina Way: Videri Quam Esse"
    Excellent.

    Heard plenty of griping from the light blue when the NCAA investigation of Tarheel football stretched on...blame Holden Thorp, we're not doing anything different than other schools, NCAA is unfair and corrupt, etc. etc.
    Not hearing too much from self-righteous Rams this time around...could it be they're actually embarrassed?

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Now, treading lightly here (God forbid we have an honest discussion on race issues), but has this not raised a red flag for anyone other than myself? This didn't happen in the chemistry department or the musical arts department.

    I mean we have a Department with what appears to be made up bogus classes under the guise of AFAM studies
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I took two, 200-level courses at Duke in African History. Extremely interesting. I imagine that, like any other course of study, you could build an extremely challenging curriculum.
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    An African and African-American Studies department should be an excellent vehicle for teaching students about this important and largely under-represented area of education. To turn an entire department into a joke designed only to give athletes easy As without actually teaching them a damn thing is a shame.

    It's also, very obviously, an academic AND athletic scandal that our respected and worthy rivals are trying hard to sweep under the rug.
    Several distinct issues here, all of them important.

    [1] Although this scam did happen in an AFAM studies department, it could have happened in other departments. The level of vigorous and rigorous undergraduate teaching among departments in all universities varies widely, very, very widely. In most instances it varies significantly within departments.

    [2] In this instance, I have seen no evidence, and doubt, that the entire department is filled with scam-artists. IMO, backed by some minimal research into course listings, what we have here [better be careful, over there] is a rogue prof. I'm guessing the prof in question was at one time - and in some ways even now - a scholar and at least a decent classroom teacher, teaching real courses. I'm guessing he drifted into sin, somehow got the notion that this was do-able, that this was a legitimate way to "help the kids," and, at least, not horrible. Not a very high standard, to be sure.

    [3] Can't yet tell how he and the administrative assistant [title?] got away with it. Perhaps those junior colleagues who themselves were victims here [forged signatures, changed grades] only belatedly discovered what the chairman had done [or had allowed to be done]. Perhaps one or two protested, weakly, but didn't quite know what the hell was going on, or were intimidated. In the event, of course, now their presumably good names have been dragged into this slime.

    [4] One or two UNC faculty have in fact come to their defense, and to the defense of the department overall. I'm convinced - and with some more research might be able to construct a persuasive case - that there are any number of very good courses in that department. To be clear on this, I recommend that we not assume the entire department is populated by charlatans. The chairman, yes, but others, I doubt it.

    [5] I'm still waiting for more from the UNC faculty on this outrage. I'd want more to speak out in defense of their colleagues whose reputations have been muddied by the chairman's behavior. Now, one might say, "Right, and the fact that the faculty haven't en masse come to the department's defense, that speaks volumes." I don't think that's it. Rather, I suspect the faculty, generally and individually, are torn between airing all this very embarrassing dirty laundry in public and just wanting it to go away soon.

    [6] The self-respecting, academically and intellectually honest, thing to do would be to insist on full, chips-fall-where-they-may [bball team, whatever] disclosure. Among the positive results of getting out the full story would, I'm convinced, be the important first step in restoring the academic bona fides of a valuable department.

    [7] Not to mention the reputation of what was - and still is, mostly, I think, I think, but .... - a great university. To hell with Roy Williams, the ACC, and even the Duke-Carolina rivalry. What happened in the AFAM department is an outrage against academic/intellectual honestly and collegial trust.
    Last edited by gumbomoop; 06-22-2012 at 10:01 AM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Several distinct issues here, all of them important.

    [1] Although this scam did happen in an AFAM studies department, it could have happened in other departments. The level of vigorous and rigorous undergraduate teaching among departments in all universities varies widely, very, very widely. In most instances it varies significantly within departments.

    [2] In this instance, I have seen no evidence, and doubt, that the entire department is filled with scam-artists. IMO, backed by some minimal research into course listings, what we have here [better be careful, over there] is a rogue prof. I'm guessing the prof in question was at one time - and in some ways even now - a scholar and at least a decent classroom teacher, teaching real courses. I'm guessing he drifted into sin, somehow got the notion that this was do-able, that this was a legitimate way to "help the kids," and, at least, not horrible. Not a very high standard, to be sure.

    [3] Can't yet tell how he and the administrative assistant [title?] got away with it. Perhaps those junior colleagues who themselves were victims here [forged signatures, changed grades] only belatedly discovered what the chairman had done [or had allowed to be done]. Perhaps one or two protested, weakly, but didn't quite know what the hell was going on, or were intimidated. In the event, of course, now their presumably good names have been dragged into this slime.

    [4] One or two UNC faculty have in fact come to their defense, and to the defense of the department overall. I'm convinced - and with some more research might be able to construct a persuasive case - that there are any number of very good courses in that department. To be clear on this, I recommend that we not assume the entire department is populated by charlatans. The chairman, yes, but others, I doubt it.

    [5] I'm still waiting for more from the UNC faculty on this outrage. I'd want more to speak out in defense of their colleagues whose reputations have been muddied by the chairman's behavior. Now, one might say, "Right, and the fact that the faculty haven't en masse come to the department's defense, that speaks volumes." I don't think that's it. Rather, I suspect the faculty, generally and individually, are torn between airing all this very embarrassing dirty laundry in public and just wanting it to go away soon.

    [6] The self-respecting, academically and intellectually honest, thing to do would be to insist on full, chips-fall-where-they-may [bball team, whatever] disclosure. Among the positive results of getting out the full story would, I'm convinced, be the important first step in restoring the academic bona fides of a valuable department.

    [7] Not to mention the reputation of what was - and still is, mostly, I think, I think, but .... - a great university. To hell with Roy Williams, the ACC, and even the Duke-Carolina rivalry. What happened in the AFAM department is a outrage against academic/intellectual honestly and collegial trust.
    I 100% agree. The big question is why the prof in question did what he did. To my knowledge, that has not really been answered and that is the main catalyst for the speculation about broader involvement and systemic "cheating." It would not be headline-worthy to note that a university has advisors that help student-athletes choose courses that fit their needs (I'm pretty certain that exists everywhere); it would be if they helped arrange for courses that were not really courses.

    One of the most interesting aspects of this to me is that the prof in question has credentials that one might think would make him least likely to get in this situation -- in addition to a PhD relevant to his profession, he also has a law degree. One would think he would be particularly sensitive to activities that seem to be a breach of his contract with the University. Even more interesting (and mentioned surprisingly little on this board), is that his law degree is from the esteemed private university that is 10 miles down the road from Chapel Hill.

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