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  1. #1
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    Uh oh. More of the same - academic trouble at UNC (SBI Investigating)

    It doesn't sound good. . . again. I have to say that as much as I enjoy the opportunity to "tsk tsk" at UNC once again, even I am kind of hoping the onion is completely peeled at this point.

    http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/sto...Carolina-NCAA/
    Last edited by Newton_14; 05-14-2012 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    It doesn't sound good. . . again. I have to say that as much as I enjoy the opportunity to "tsk tsk" at UNC once again, even I am kind of hoping the onion is completely peeled at this point.

    http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/sto...Carolina-NCAA/
    To quote a great move line "I'm shocked to fine gambling going on at your establishment Rick".

  3. #3
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    Aww, has nothing to do with basketball team.

  4. #4
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    Maybe, or maybe not. Still a lot of names to be released. My depend on how popular that class was with the basketball payers. It sounds more like the Dept of AA Studies is the shaky character in the business, so if some BBallers were in the class and they were allowing that much skating, then why not?

    I don't think it would be a lot if any BBallers, but you never can tell. There are very few nice things I can say about Ol Roy, but I do not think he is a cheater or would cover up any misconduct that he was aware of. He seems honest at least on that level. He may be a little disconnect from reality sometime like in the "I didn't know my players were still on the court" during the FSU embaressment, but he is not dumb enough or desperate enough to allow something like this to go on if he knew about it....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Maybe, or maybe not. Still a lot of names to be released. My depend on how popular that class was with the basketball payers. It sounds more like the Dept of AA Studies is the shaky character in the business, so if some BBallers were in the class and they were allowing that much skating, then why not?

    I don't think it would be a lot if any BBallers, but you never can tell. There are very few nice things I can say about Ol Roy, but I do not think he is a cheater or would cover up any misconduct that he was aware of. He seems honest at least on that level. He may be a little disconnect from reality sometime like in the "I didn't know my players were still on the court" during the FSU embaressment, but he is not dumb enough or desperate enough to allow something like this to go on if he knew about it....
    I think both of your points are valid.

    I assume the NCAA has to be notified again, and that there may be some further action?
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  6. #6
    If a basketball player or players were involved, our guess is that either the player and the guilty instructor conspired, or perhaps a grade was just changed. (The question then, it seems to us, is motive).

    Its hard to imagine the basketball program getting their hands dirty in this way.

    And of course, this is entirely speculative. Theres no indication of that being an issue at all. Most of the people involved have not been identified.

    Maybe State fans will consider that for an encore.
    State fans have been all over Swahili and basketball...the question is will anyone listen? There is little doubt that Swahili was taken en masse by athletes and the basketball team.

    ---------------
    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f...3#MS_120979370

    As one former teammate noted: I think he failed Swahili. Everyone on the team takes that class and Im pretty sure Will [Graves] was the first one to fail.

    http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbask...0%99-dismissal


    "I took a [swahili] class last year and I am taking another this year. Maybe I'll use the language on a trip to Africa someday. There's no reason I chose Swahili other than that I thought it would be cool. I enjoy it" - Tyler Hansbrough

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7210/index.htm


    "I hope my Swahili tutor get me right for this summer class!" - Reggie Bullock

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/68369325907656704

    "Done with swahili!" - Reggie Bullock, Jun 13th, 2011 (Summer)

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/80282401875562496

    "My bad y'all Swahili... Lol " - John Henson

    http://twitter.com/#!/_John_Henson_/...51802049921024

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I think both of your points are valid.

    I assume the NCAA has to be notified again, and that there may be some further action?
    Apparently the university has already notified the NCAA although, according to the report, "there is no evidence that student-athletes received more favorable treatment than students who were not athletes. It also said that no student received a grade without doing course work. The report has been shared with the NCAA, which could not be reached for immediate comment." http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/...-evidence.html

    It would be ironic indeed if it turned out that the irregularities in the African and Afro-American studies Department existed completely independent of athletics and were merely discovered incidentally because one or two students involved were football players.

  8. #8
    And some more fodder for those that think this isn't widespread. FWIW - I believe the numbers are for all sports, not just FB. The author made a mistake attributing exceptions to FB only.

    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f...7#MS_120999680

    By Packfanweb:

    This explains how they sign double-digit non-qualifiers, or "committee cases", as they call them, in EVERY recruiting class, then never have them flunk out.

    Charlotte Observer Article

    "At UNC, about half of the football recruiting classes over the past six years have been admitted to school through a special committee process required for students who fall below academic requirements."

    "At N.C. State - which often recruits the same in-state athletes as UNC - 15 football players have gone before a special admissions committee since 2006 because they did not meet minimum curriculum requirements set by the UNC-system Board of Governors."
    Remember that number, 15 State football players from 06-2010 were exceptions. Remember that when you read this:

    From the Daily Tar Heel: (football recruits only)

    EXCEPTIONS

    Number of students granted admission who did not meet minimum

    requirements:

    -2010: 14

    -2009: 16

    -2008: 13

    -2007: 22

    -2006: 27


    Look at those exceptions, and tell my there's any other way these guys stayed eligible and graduated besides pure fraud. There's NO WAY you can take this many kids who aren't even remotely qualified to attend your university and keep them all eligible, not legitimately.
    State had 15 of these kids in that entire time frame. Avg. 3 per year.
    Carolina AVERAGED 18 per YEAR.

    And what really burns me is those pretentious pricks rubbing their graduation rate in our faces all these years, when it's now proven to be a total joke....then they wonder why we want to see them get the hammer so badly.
    Last edited by PackMan97; 05-05-2012 at 09:29 AM.

  9. #9
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    Nov 2007
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    Durham, NC
    27 in one year? That can't be right, can it?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    27 in one year? That can't be right, can it?
    I'm looking at those numbers and having read the source article, that may be across all sports. The data is unclear.

  11. #11
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    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    State fans have been all over Swahili and basketball...the question is will anyone listen? There is little doubt that Swahili was taken en masse by athletes and the basketball team.

    ---------------
    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f...3#MS_120979370

    As one former teammate noted: I think he failed Swahili. Everyone on the team takes that class and Im pretty sure Will [Graves] was the first one to fail.

    http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbask...0%99-dismissal


    "I took a [swahili] class last year and I am taking another this year. Maybe I'll use the language on a trip to Africa someday. There's no reason I chose Swahili other than that I thought it would be cool. I enjoy it" - Tyler Hansbrough

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7210/index.htm


    "I hope my Swahili tutor get me right for this summer class!" - Reggie Bullock

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/68369325907656704

    "Done with swahili!" - Reggie Bullock, Jun 13th, 2011 (Summer)

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/80282401875562496

    "My bad y'all Swahili... Lol " - John Henson

    http://twitter.com/#!/_John_Henson_/...51802049921024
    Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anything shady is going on--someone could just be encouraging basketball players to take Swahili because it's an easy class for everyone at UNC.

    When my daughter was at Duke, she took beginning Italian, because she wanted to study abroad in Italy. The class was completely legit, but Italian turns out to be a fairly easy language to learn, compared to languages like French or German. About half the members of her small section (15 or 20 students, IIRC) were athletes (not basketball players, as it happens). It's possible, of course, that many Duke athletes have always wanted to learn Italian; it's also possible that athletes may choose certain courses (or be encouraged to choose certain courses) because they will demand less time than others, because they meet at times that don't conflict with practice, and because if several members of a team are taking the same course they can study together for more efficiency.

    This may chafe a bit against our most idealized notions about the student-athlete, but I don't think there is anything remotely wrong with it, and there are plenty of non-athletes who choose classes (especially ones they are taking to fill requirements) because they are easy.

  12. #12
    Link to another article.

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...-evidence.html

    It does appear that this scandal - involving very serious academic fraud - is the result of the actions of soon-to-retire Professor Julius Nyang'oro. [Full disclosure up front: Prof. Nyang'oro holds several advanced degrees, including Duke University, JD, 1990.] How he was allowed to get away with what he did is puzzling, undoubtedly not least to the several other instructors whose assessment of student work was undercut by grade changes. As UNC's reports states, Our review has exposed numerous violations of professional trust, affecting the relationship of faculty and students and the relationships among faculty colleagues in this department. Heaven knows how embarrassed his erstwhile colleagues are, or how enraged a few of them surely must be, or what jokes must be endured by the instructors now teaching courses in the African and Afro-American Studies Department.

    Much of this stuff seems to have involved summer school independent studies "taught" [or not] by Nyang'oro, whose standards were lax at best, and much more likely simply dishonest and utterly unprofessional. Although I can comprehend why UNC allowed Nyang'oro to depart the chairmanship of the department quietly, and is now allowing him quietly [well, not so quietly, as things have turned out] to retire from the University, IMO they made a mistake in not firing him, at some point. If they needed to keep him around for awhile to gather evidence, ok, but what Nyang'oro did goes well beyond a nice, perhaps even naive, scholar just trying to help out some kids during summer school. I assume that if the unprofessional conduct is sufficiently unprofessional, one can be fired from the faculty of UNC.

    It's an interesting little mystery as to why it took years, rather than a few weeks, for this grade-changing stuff to be caught. Perhaps it involved untenured instructors afraid to complain. As I say, a bit of a mystery still.

    Whatever else comes out, the stained reputation of a great university is again headline news. I'm looking for some further statement from the University faculty. I myself will be proud of the UNC professoriate if they respond; not so proud if they let this one slide, even out of understandable embarrassment. I assume they will, and probably already have, expressed their dismay intramurally. IMO, they should express their dismay publicly, too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Link to another article.

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...-evidence.html

    It does appear that this scandal - involving very serious academic fraud - is the result of the actions of soon-to-retire Professor Julius Nyang'oro. [Full disclosure up front: Prof. Nyang'oro holds several advanced degrees, including Duke University, JD, 1990.] How he was allowed to get away with what he did is puzzling, undoubtedly not least to the several other instructors whose assessment of student work was undercut by grade changes. As UNC's reports states, Our review has exposed numerous violations of professional trust, affecting the relationship of faculty and students and the relationships among faculty colleagues in this department. Heaven knows how embarrassed his erstwhile colleagues are, or how enraged a few of them surely must be, or what jokes must be endured by the instructors now teaching courses in the African and Afro-American Studies Department.

    Much of this stuff seems to have involved summer school independent studies "taught" [or not] by Nyang'oro, whose standards were lax at best, and much more likely simply dishonest and utterly unprofessional. Although I can comprehend why UNC allowed Nyang'oro to depart the chairmanship of the department quietly, and is now allowing him quietly [well, not so quietly, as things have turned out] to retire from the University, IMO they made a mistake in not firing him, at some point. If they needed to keep him around for awhile to gather evidence, ok, but what Nyang'oro did goes well beyond a nice, perhaps even naive, scholar just trying to help out some kids during summer school. I assume that if the unprofessional conduct is sufficiently unprofessional, one can be fired from the faculty of UNC.

    It's an interesting little mystery as to why it took years, rather than a few weeks, for this grade-changing stuff to be caught. Perhaps it involved untenured instructors afraid to complain. As I say, a bit of a mystery still.

    Whatever else comes out, the stained reputation of a great university is again headline news. I'm looking for some further statement from the University faculty. I myself will be proud of the UNC professoriate if they respond; not so proud if they let this one slide, even out of understandable embarrassment. I assume they will, and probably already have, expressed their dismay intramurally. IMO, they should express their dismay publicly, too.
    Probably--although it's amazing how little attention one can pay to teaching and get away with it when one has tenure. (Actually changing grades is probably another matter, though, if one could prove that there was no legitimate reason for the change.) It's possible firing a tenured professor might require a lengthy and difficult proceeding that could prove extremely embarrassing to the university, which would make "retirement" a much more attractive option.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    [1] Probably--although it's amazing how little attention one can pay to teaching and get away with it when one has tenure. [2] (Actually changing grades is probably another matter, though, if one could prove that there was no legitimate reason for the change.) [3] It's possible firing a tenured professor might require a lengthy and difficult proceeding that could prove extremely embarrassing to the university, which would make "retirement" a much more attractive option.
    Good points.

    [1] I hear you on this one. Teaching is not always the top priority of scholars. In some institutions, it's not even very important, compared to scholarly publicatons.

    [2] This is clearly one of the two major issues in the UNC report. That the grades seem to have been changed with no consultation with the actual instructor in several of these courses strongly suggests there was no legitimate reason. Thus, it seems just from the statements in the report that this was, unquestionably, academic fraud. Perhaps professoriate-adjudication in such matters involves standing on one's head to avoid the bloody obvious. Otherwise, the idea that there might be anything legitimate about this stuff doesn't pass the laugh test.

    [3] Yes, this is probably the explanation. It does, however, imply either that proving the bloody obvious was thought too difficult; or, more likely, that proving the bloody obvious would be simple, and simply embarrassing, the bloody obvious having been ignored for so long.

    Because I genuinely respect the academic excellence of so many of the programs at UNC-CH, I hold out the hope that the faculty will make a public statement. I won't exactly hold my breath, but I will hold out hope. UNC is a first-rate university. The faculty have to live up to their own expressed standards. They cannot stay silently embarrassed in the face of this report.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post
    Aww, has nothing to do with basketball team.
    be still my heart!!!!


    ugh....it's hard to say this, but actually, i would not want that title stripped from them for this reason.......other reasons, maybe, but unc going down in flames would be the end of a college bb era that i've grown up with and the apocalypse soon to follow....

    i would rather just see Dr. Rivers (or this year's "dr. rivers" ) arriving for their proctology exam....
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  16. #16
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    Inman, SC & Melbourne Beach, FL
    I am confused why no mention was made of a Dean or other UNC administration. I agree that tenured faculty have great latitude, but, when I was in that position, if I did something question (let alone egregious) the Dean would ask me what was going on. Eventually, the dean would whisper in some colleague's ear, and that colleague would inquire. All low key, but if strange things continued, the Academic VP would want to have a little talk, and so on. All very low key, but this would be long before (one hopes) a scandal broke.
    In other words, this sounds like a management (or lack thereof) problem. Of course, almost every problem can generally be traced back to poor management, in my experience.

  17. #17
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    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    be still my heart!!!!


    ugh....it's hard to say this, but actually, i would not want that title stripped from them for this reason.......other reasons, maybe, but unc going down in flames would be the end of a college bb era that i've grown up with and the apocalypse soon to follow....

    i would rather just see Dr. Rivers (or this year's "dr. rivers" ) arriving for their proctology exam....
    Must not have been toooo hard...
    I'm for whatever causes the Heels faithful embarrasment and pain.
    I'm for whatever dissuades athletes (especially good ones) from attending.

    If this does any of that to an appreciable degree, then great..

  18. #18
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    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Good points.

    [1] I hear you on this one. Teaching is not always the top priority of scholars. In some institutions, it's not even very important, compared to scholarly publicatons.

    [2] This is clearly one of the two major issues in the UNC report. That the grades seem to have been changed with no consultation with the actual instructor in several of these courses strongly suggests there was no legitimate reason. Thus, it seems just from the statements in the report that this was, unquestionably, academic fraud. Perhaps professoriate-adjudication in such matters involves standing on one's head to avoid the bloody obvious. Otherwise, the idea that there might be anything legitimate about this stuff doesn't pass the laugh test.

    [3] Yes, this is probably the explanation. It does, however, imply either that proving the bloody obvious was thought too difficult; or, more likely, that proving the bloody obvious would be simple, and simply embarrassing, the bloody obvious having been ignored for so long.

    Because I genuinely respect the academic excellence of so many of the programs at UNC-CH, I hold out the hope that the faculty will make a public statement. I won't exactly hold my breath, but I will hold out hope. UNC is a first-rate university. The faculty have to live up to their own expressed standards. They cannot stay silently embarrassed in the face of this report.
    You make an excellent point--given what has been reported here it's hard to imagine any legitimate explanation for the grade changes. Looking at the source article again I see that the changes were apparently from temporary grades to permanent grades. Where I teach the most common temporary grade is Incomplete; I'm guessing the original professors may have given incompletes when some of the work was not finished on time (perhaps in part to provide some flexibility for traveling athletes) and these were changed to permanent passing grades before the work was submitted. It's also the practice where I teach to include an incomplete course in the courses attempted for GPA purposes, with no quality points awarded as long as it remains incomplete--thus, it registers as an F in GPA calculation until the permanent grade is given. If that's also true at Carolina it would provide a pretty clear incentive for the grade changes, even if the student theoretically intended to finish the work.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anything shady is going on--someone could just be encouraging basketball players to take Swahili because it's an easy class for everyone at UNC.

    When my daughter was at Duke, she took beginning Italian, because she wanted to study abroad in Italy. The class was completely legit, but Italian turns out to be a fairly easy language to learn, compared to languages like French or German. About half the members of her small section (15 or 20 students, IIRC) were athletes (not basketball players, as it happens). It's possible, of course, that many Duke athletes have always wanted to learn Italian; it's also possible that athletes may choose certain courses (or be encouraged to choose certain courses) because they will demand less time than others, because they meet at times that don't conflict with practice, and because if several members of a team are taking the same course they can study together for more efficiency.

    This may chafe a bit against our most idealized notions about the student-athlete, but I don't think there is anything remotely wrong with it, and there are plenty of non-athletes who choose classes (especially ones they are taking to fill requirements) because they are easy.
    Weirdly replying to my own post because I can't edit any more--just wanted to make clear now that I've read the linked article more closely that, obviously, it would make a difference whether the basketball players were enrolled in the same "no-show" Swahili class that the football player was in or other, apparently legitimate sections of Swahili. If the former, my argument above may not really apply.

  20. #20
    UNC is between a rock and hard place on this one. Its apparent that signficant fraud has occurred within the Afro-American Studies Department and heads should roll in addition to the "retirement" of the previous department head. However, to critize anyone else in the department or publicly address the issues, would be politically incorrect. I'm sure they hope the issue will simply go away and no action needs be taken. Somehow, I don't think avid State fans will let that happen.

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