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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Durham, NC

    Uh oh. More of the same - academic trouble at UNC (SBI Investigating)

    It doesn't sound good. . . again. I have to say that as much as I enjoy the opportunity to "tsk tsk" at UNC once again, even I am kind of hoping the onion is completely peeled at this point.

    http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/sto...Carolina-NCAA/
    Last edited by Newton_14; 05-14-2012 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    Feb 2008
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    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    It doesn't sound good. . . again. I have to say that as much as I enjoy the opportunity to "tsk tsk" at UNC once again, even I am kind of hoping the onion is completely peeled at this point.

    http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/sto...Carolina-NCAA/
    To quote a great move line "I'm shocked to fine gambling going on at your establishment Rick".

  3. #3
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cali
    Aww, has nothing to do with basketball team.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2008
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    On the couch
    Maybe, or maybe not. Still a lot of names to be released. My depend on how popular that class was with the basketball payers. It sounds more like the Dept of AA Studies is the shaky character in the business, so if some BBallers were in the class and they were allowing that much skating, then why not?

    I don't think it would be a lot if any BBallers, but you never can tell. There are very few nice things I can say about Ol Roy, but I do not think he is a cheater or would cover up any misconduct that he was aware of. He seems honest at least on that level. He may be a little disconnect from reality sometime like in the "I didn't know my players were still on the court" during the FSU embaressment, but he is not dumb enough or desperate enough to allow something like this to go on if he knew about it....

  5. #5
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Maybe, or maybe not. Still a lot of names to be released. My depend on how popular that class was with the basketball payers. It sounds more like the Dept of AA Studies is the shaky character in the business, so if some BBallers were in the class and they were allowing that much skating, then why not?

    I don't think it would be a lot if any BBallers, but you never can tell. There are very few nice things I can say about Ol Roy, but I do not think he is a cheater or would cover up any misconduct that he was aware of. He seems honest at least on that level. He may be a little disconnect from reality sometime like in the "I didn't know my players were still on the court" during the FSU embaressment, but he is not dumb enough or desperate enough to allow something like this to go on if he knew about it....
    I think both of your points are valid.

    I assume the NCAA has to be notified again, and that there may be some further action?
    Roy, be a man. Accept responsibility and resign.

  6. #6
    If a basketball player or players were involved, our guess is that either the player and the guilty instructor conspired, or perhaps a grade was just changed. (The question then, it seems to us, is motive).

    Its hard to imagine the basketball program getting their hands dirty in this way.

    And of course, this is entirely speculative. Theres no indication of that being an issue at all. Most of the people involved have not been identified.

    Maybe State fans will consider that for an encore.
    State fans have been all over Swahili and basketball...the question is will anyone listen? There is little doubt that Swahili was taken en masse by athletes and the basketball team.

    ---------------
    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f...3#MS_120979370

    As one former teammate noted: I think he failed Swahili. Everyone on the team takes that class and Im pretty sure Will [Graves] was the first one to fail.

    http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbask...0%99-dismissal


    "I took a [swahili] class last year and I am taking another this year. Maybe I'll use the language on a trip to Africa someday. There's no reason I chose Swahili other than that I thought it would be cool. I enjoy it" - Tyler Hansbrough

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7210/index.htm


    "I hope my Swahili tutor get me right for this summer class!" - Reggie Bullock

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/68369325907656704

    "Done with swahili!" - Reggie Bullock, Jun 13th, 2011 (Summer)

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/80282401875562496

    "My bad y'all Swahili... Lol " - John Henson

    http://twitter.com/#!/_John_Henson_/...51802049921024

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    State fans have been all over Swahili and basketball...the question is will anyone listen? There is little doubt that Swahili was taken en masse by athletes and the basketball team.

    ---------------
    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f...3#MS_120979370

    As one former teammate noted: I think he failed Swahili. Everyone on the team takes that class and Im pretty sure Will [Graves] was the first one to fail.

    http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbask...0%99-dismissal


    "I took a [swahili] class last year and I am taking another this year. Maybe I'll use the language on a trip to Africa someday. There's no reason I chose Swahili other than that I thought it would be cool. I enjoy it" - Tyler Hansbrough

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7210/index.htm


    "I hope my Swahili tutor get me right for this summer class!" - Reggie Bullock

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/68369325907656704

    "Done with swahili!" - Reggie Bullock, Jun 13th, 2011 (Summer)

    http://twitter.com/DaBully35/statuses/80282401875562496

    "My bad y'all Swahili... Lol " - John Henson

    http://twitter.com/#!/_John_Henson_/...51802049921024
    Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anything shady is going on--someone could just be encouraging basketball players to take Swahili because it's an easy class for everyone at UNC.

    When my daughter was at Duke, she took beginning Italian, because she wanted to study abroad in Italy. The class was completely legit, but Italian turns out to be a fairly easy language to learn, compared to languages like French or German. About half the members of her small section (15 or 20 students, IIRC) were athletes (not basketball players, as it happens). It's possible, of course, that many Duke athletes have always wanted to learn Italian; it's also possible that athletes may choose certain courses (or be encouraged to choose certain courses) because they will demand less time than others, because they meet at times that don't conflict with practice, and because if several members of a team are taking the same course they can study together for more efficiency.

    This may chafe a bit against our most idealized notions about the student-athlete, but I don't think there is anything remotely wrong with it, and there are plenty of non-athletes who choose classes (especially ones they are taking to fill requirements) because they are easy.

  8. #8
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    Apr 2010
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    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anything shady is going on--someone could just be encouraging basketball players to take Swahili because it's an easy class for everyone at UNC.

    When my daughter was at Duke, she took beginning Italian, because she wanted to study abroad in Italy. The class was completely legit, but Italian turns out to be a fairly easy language to learn, compared to languages like French or German. About half the members of her small section (15 or 20 students, IIRC) were athletes (not basketball players, as it happens). It's possible, of course, that many Duke athletes have always wanted to learn Italian; it's also possible that athletes may choose certain courses (or be encouraged to choose certain courses) because they will demand less time than others, because they meet at times that don't conflict with practice, and because if several members of a team are taking the same course they can study together for more efficiency.

    This may chafe a bit against our most idealized notions about the student-athlete, but I don't think there is anything remotely wrong with it, and there are plenty of non-athletes who choose classes (especially ones they are taking to fill requirements) because they are easy.
    Weirdly replying to my own post because I can't edit any more--just wanted to make clear now that I've read the linked article more closely that, obviously, it would make a difference whether the basketball players were enrolled in the same "no-show" Swahili class that the football player was in or other, apparently legitimate sections of Swahili. If the former, my argument above may not really apply.

  9. #9
    UNC is between a rock and hard place on this one. Its apparent that signficant fraud has occurred within the Afro-American Studies Department and heads should roll in addition to the "retirement" of the previous department head. However, to critize anyone else in the department or publicly address the issues, would be politically incorrect. I'm sure they hope the issue will simply go away and no action needs be taken. Somehow, I don't think avid State fans will let that happen.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    UNC is between a rock and hard place on this one. Its apparent that signficant fraud has occurred within the Afro-American Studies Department and heads should roll in addition to the "retirement" of the previous department head. However, to critize anyone else in the department or publicly address the issues, would be politically incorrect. I'm sure they hope the issue will simply go away and no action needs be taken. Somehow, I don't think avid State fans will let that happen.
    Though I seldom visit other fan sites I took a look over at Pack Pride and it looks they will be chasing after this like an avid dog. "Avid" isn't quite the adjective though. Many State still hold a grudge from back in the Valvano days.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anything shady is going on--someone could just be encouraging basketball players to take Swahili because it's an easy class for everyone at UNC.

    When my daughter was at Duke, she took beginning Italian, because she wanted to study abroad in Italy. The class was completely legit, but Italian turns out to be a fairly easy language to learn, compared to languages like French or German. About half the members of her small section (15 or 20 students, IIRC) were athletes (not basketball players, as it happens). It's possible, of course, that many Duke athletes have always wanted to learn Italian; it's also possible that athletes may choose certain courses (or be encouraged to choose certain courses) because they will demand less time than others, because they meet at times that don't conflict with practice, and because if several members of a team are taking the same course they can study together for more efficiency.

    This may chafe a bit against our most idealized notions about the student-athlete, but I don't think there is anything remotely wrong with it, and there are plenty of non-athletes who choose classes (especially ones they are taking to fill requirements) because they are easy.
    When it comes to course selection, word of mouth intelligence from others seems to influence students regarding which courses to take or even which sections to seek out. I've observed such patterns not only among athletes, but also among fraternities.

    It was "common knowledge" years ago during my undergraduate days that a certain poli sci prof was supposed to be easy. There were many athletes in his classes.... but there weren't many A's and B's turned out to take some real work. Sometimes classes and/or professors turn out to be rather different than the myth on campus.

  12. #12
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    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    When it comes to course selection, word of mouth intelligence from others seems to influence students regarding which courses to take or even which sections to seek out. I've observed such patterns not only among athletes, but also among fraternities.

    It was "common knowledge" years ago during my undergraduate days that a certain poli sci prof was supposed to be easy. There were many athletes in his classes.... but there weren't many A's and B's turned out to take some real work. Sometimes classes and/or professors turn out to be rather different than the myth on campus.
    Yes, I had such an experience myself meeting a lab science requirement with astronomy--turned out I actually had to do not only the Saturday morning labs but homework observations at night, as well as actually learn a lot about astronomy. Should have taken geology, I guess...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    Yes, I had such an experience myself meeting a lab science requirement with astronomy--turned out I actually had to do not only the Saturday morning labs but homework observations at night, as well as actually learn a lot about astronomy. Should have taken geology, I guess...
    I'm happy to say that the professor became a friend for life and his class is one I actually remember much about even today. Others who took his courses have said the same thing. It would be easy to look at the high count of athletes each semester and conclude that this was a course designed for jocks to stay eligible. All is not as it appears!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Intro to Jazz with Paul Jeffrey. Everyone took that course for an easy A. There were a handful of athletes who dutifully sat in the back row of Baldwin earning their grade when I took the course... which I totally did because I wanted to learn about jazz.

  15. #15
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Intro to Jazz with Paul Jeffrey. Everyone took that course for an easy A. There were a handful of athletes who dutifully sat in the back row of Baldwin earning their grade when I took the course... which I totally did because I wanted to learn about jazz.
    I took a Jazz Improv class with Paul Jeffrey where you had to play your instrument. Not an easy class to meet his standards.
    Roy, be a man. Accept responsibility and resign.

  16. #16
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I took a Jazz Improv class with Paul Jeffrey where you had to play your instrument. Not an easy class to meet his standards.
    A lot of professors turn out to be completely different people depending on whether or not you take their intro classes or their higher level courses. I had one philosophy prof in particular who was known as an easy A, but when I took a grad-level course with him, it turned out to be a slaughterfest. Toughest B+ I ever earned.

  17. #17
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    Apr 2010
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    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    A lot of professors turn out to be completely different people depending on whether or not you take their intro classes or their higher level courses. I had one philosophy prof in particular who was known as an easy A, but when I took a grad-level course with him, it turned out to be a slaughterfest. Toughest B+ I ever earned.
    That's a really good point. A lot of profs probably don't take the intro courses all that seriously and don't have very high expectations for student performance. But in an upper level class, they are more engaged, have higher expectations, and may see their role as enforcing the standards of their profession, rather than imparting a dollop of general information about the field to undergrads who will need no more.

  18. #18
    Well when I was attending Swahili at Duke everyone thought it was the easiest class ever and it was full of athletes, but let me tell you that Swahili is not an easy language and that the professor took it very seriously. That was the hardest A+ of all the A+ grades I recieved.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    The academic fraud news has made it past the borders of NC. There is a blurb on it from Inside Higher Ed.

    A link

  20. #20
    "On Monday, Tom Ross, the UNC system president, said in a statement that he saw no need to look further into the academic improprieties.

    I believe that this was an isolated situation and that the campus has taken appropriate steps to correct problems and put additional safeguards in place, Ross said."

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