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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Jabari Parker Article - This Makes Me Sick!

    Seeing this in print really made my stomach turn:

    "Parker is a target of the nation's top programs, including famed one-and-done (star players that play one year before declaring for the NBA) programs Duke and Kentucky."

    So now we're a one-and-done factory in the same category as Kentucky? I'm disgusted by the comparison.
    Rich
    Cameron Crazies Do Not Storm The Court

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Cali

    Get use to it

    Duke isnt in the same category as Kentucky in terms of 1 and done. Duke needs to continue to bring in top talent, 1 and done guys as well as 4 year guys. I dont like the 1 and done rule, but thats the way it is, so get use to it.

  3. #3
    Both programs do have stars that play one year and then go pro.

    You added the word factory.

    I think it's an accurate sentence.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Seeing this in print really made my stomach turn:

    "Parker is a target of the nation's top programs, including famed one-and-done (star players that play one year before declaring for the NBA) programs Duke and Kentucky."

    So now we're a one-and-done factory in the same category as Kentucky? I'm disgusted by the comparison.
    I think this is awesome. One and dones are a reality of college basketball. If Duke can have the perception that it's a good place for one and dones, but still maintains a clean program and emphasize academics, that is pretty much ideal. Being mentioned in the same sentence as Kentucky doesn't mean Duke has to do everything like Kentucky.

  5. #5
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    Washington, DC
    You cannot call us a 1-and-done factory. We've had 4 players turn pro after their freshman year EVER. UK had 4 drafted in the 1st round of the 2010 Draft alone. And we don't have to remind ourselves how those 4 freshman did in the tournament that year or what we ended up doing.

    Until the NBA and NCAA work to change the rule, we will have 1-and-dones and we cannot avoid kids who are thinking about going that route. If we did, there would be very few kids left to recruit.
    2003-2004 HLM

    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  6. #6
    How many programs have had their star go pro after one year, two years in a row?

    Kentucky
    Duke

    Note that only the OP has changed the discussion to factory.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Slackerb View Post
    How many programs have had their star go pro after one year, two years in a row?

    Kentucky
    Duke

    Note that only the OP has changed the discussion to factory.
    Yeah, the term factory changes the entire debate, and that's a spin provided by the poster not the article. We've had two notable one-and-dones in a row now. As such, that puts us in the conversation.

    Clearly, Kentucky is the hands-down runaway leader in the one-and-done debate. After them? We're probably next. So the article isn't all that misleading.

  8. #8
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    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Slackerb View Post
    How many programs have had their star go pro after one year, two years in a row?

    Kentucky
    Duke

    Note that only the OP has changed the discussion to factory.
    While I agree that the term factory (not used by the author) suggests a more negative image than the term program, anyone who suggests that Duke is a one-and-done program on the level of Kentucky hasn't done their homework and suffers from a recency bias. Since the one and done was enacted in 2006, Duke has had 2 such players, Irving and Rivers. Kentucky has had 8 (MKG, Davis, Teague, Knight, Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Orton). Ohio St has had 5 (Mullens, Koufos, Oden, Conley, Cook). Texas has had 4 (Durant, Bradley, Thompson, Joseph). Heck, Georgia Tech has had 3 (Crittenton, Thaddeus Young and Favors). I'm sure other programs have had 2 or more as well. But these came off the top of my head with a minute of research to confirm.

    As for one-and-dones as a whole, I don't have a problem with having them at Duke mixed in with 3 and 4 year players. Both Rivers and Irving bought into the team concept and will be great ambassadors for Duke during their NBA careers.
    Last edited by tbyers11; 05-02-2012 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Added GT players
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Horrific!

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yeah, the term factory changes the entire debate, and that's a spin provided by the poster not the article. We've had two notable one-and-dones in a row now. As such, that puts us in the conversation.

    Clearly, Kentucky is the hands-down runaway leader in the one-and-done debate. After them? We're probably next. So the article isn't all that misleading.
    I disagree with you and others on this thread who are not offended by the "one and done" label attached to our team. We have had two guys do this (one after playing only a limited number of games for us). That means you can count them on your thumbs. In order to total Kentucky one and dones, you need to take off your shoes and use your toes as well as your fingers!

    We are a storied basketball program with the winningest coach ever in the NCAA. We didn't get there by having one and dones... and we won't perpetuate our winning record that way. While Kyrie, had he remained healthy for the entire season, would have likely made a huge difference, Austin wasn't built to fit the Duke system.

    Anything that compares us to Kentucky (and with a negative slant) makes me furious. When Calipari gets his 900+ win, then I'll think about the viability of such a comparison. Until then, we are a program that has won with seniors (Laettner, Hurley, Hill, Battier, James, Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek... and any others I've not mentioned). Now THAT is something to be proud of!!!

    Go Devils 2012-2013!
    DukeDevilDeb

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevilDeb View Post
    I disagree with you and others on this thread who are not offended by the "one and done" label attached to our team. We have had two guys do this (one after playing only a limited number of games for us). That means you can count them on your thumbs. In order to total Kentucky one and dones, you need to take off your shoes and use your toes as well as your fingers!

    We are a storied basketball program with the winningest coach ever in the NCAA. We didn't get there by having one and dones... and we won't perpetuate our winning record that way. While Kyrie, had he remained healthy for the entire season, would have likely made a huge difference, Austin wasn't built to fit the Duke system.

    Anything that compares us to Kentucky (and with a negative slant) makes me furious. When Calipari gets his 900+ win, then I'll think about the viability of such a comparison. Until then, we are a program that has won with seniors (Laettner, Hurley, Hill, Battier, James, Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek... and any others I've not mentioned). Now THAT is something to be proud of!!!

    Go Devils 2012-2013!
    The bolded part here is just not true. Unless you have 4 thumbs.

    Obviously Duke and Kentucky have different recruiting standards and strategies. The schools are vastly different institutions. And Coach K and Calipari have different legacies.

    It is true, however, that Duke has, and will continue to recruit "one-and-done" level talent-- i.e., guys who are good enough to make the leap to the NBA after one year. And we should. That is how the rules are set up, and Coach K has successfully adapted to those rules. For an example of what happens to a program when its leader can't or won't change, look at the last few discontented years of Bob Knight's career at Indiana. Pretty sure Coach K has this well in mind.

    And by the way, Duke is also a team that has won championships and made Final Fours with freshman playing decisive roles (Hill, Deng, Duhon, Hurley)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Phoenix, AZ

    Parker

    In terms of Jabari, there really would be no way that he would stay at Duke for more than one year. I'm sure very few of you know the process for going on a Mormon mission but essentially you apply when you turn 19 and leave shortly thereafter. Upon return, Jabari would be 21 and enter the NBA. This type of commitment is a huge sacrifice on his career and even more of a reason that I think this kid belongs at Duke.

    As far as becoming a "one and done factory," I think we will continue to have at least one of these players every other year (minimum). I personally am not a fan of it but, it is the way of NCAA basketball.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevilDeb View Post
    Anything that compares us to Kentucky (and with a negative slant) makes me furious. When Calipari gets his 900+ win, then I'll think about the viability of such a comparison. Until then, we are a program that has won with seniors (Laettner, Hurley, Hill, Battier, James, Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek... and any others I've not mentioned). Now THAT is something to be proud of!!!

    Go Devils 2012-2013!
    But there was no negative slant in the article! That "negative slant" has been projected onto by those who choose to detest basketball players based on an extremely meaningful integer between 1 and 4.

    Personally, as long as K continues to recruit high-character kids who represent the university well, I will continue to not judge people for how long it takes them to fully prepare for the next stage in their lives.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  13. #13
    Always best to tred lightly into a new thread that already has posters irritated with each other.

    I guess maybe we could focus on the key phrase in the article, which, we agree, does not include the word "factory." Good, we agree on something.

    The key phrase - we might be able to agree, before we re-commence to disagreeing - is "famed one-and-done... programs Duke and Kentucky." My complaint here is that Duke's fame in the intermediate-to-long-term [K era = roughly 30 years] isn't a product of our 2 recent one-dones. Does the author actually remember and refer also to Maggette and Deng?

    I suppose one might argue that UK's one-done-related "fame" is, like Duke's, of very recent vintage, and that, like Duke, its historic fame comes from other things, like championships.

    Still, Kentucky's recent one-done fame is a good deal more dramatic and publicized than Duke's. A key factor in Calipari's recruiting strategy is his success in getting guys to the league after but one season. So maybe the argument in this thread will devolve into a debate about whether K should emulate Calipari, in this regard [if, surely, in no other].

    Everyone here wants K to have wonderful recruiting successes. We might still differ on what constitutes success, or the wisest path thereto. No one here wants Duke to emulate the other thing, historically, for which UK is sometimes known: cheating. And it's that infamy, rather than fame, that some posters will recoil against, whenever Duke and K are mentioned in the same breath with UK and Calipari.

  14. #14

    Question on time commitment

    Quote Originally Posted by Azdukefan View Post
    In terms of Jabari, there really would be no way that he would stay at Duke for more than one year. I'm sure very few of you know the process for going on a Mormon mission but essentially you apply when you turn 19 and leave shortly thereafter. Upon return, Jabari would be 21 and enter the NBA. This type of commitment is a huge sacrifice on his career and even more of a reason that I think this kid belongs at Duke.

    As far as becoming a "one and done factory," I think we will continue to have at least one of these players every other year (minimum). I personally am not a fan of it but, it is the way of NCAA basketball.
    I thought it was a 1-yr mission as opposed to two. Does that mean Stillman White will be away from the Carolina program for 2 years since I believe he's left for his missionary service? I'm not sure if I'm correct on this but I thought Shawn Bradley went on his missionary service just before or while he played in the NBA; and I didn't recall him missing any time in college; but again I could be mistaken.

    As far as Parker only playing 1 year at Duke, that could happen; but I could see him coming back to Duke for at least one more year after his missionary service to build his skills back up in preparation for the NBA. I would find it hard to believe that Jabari would jump directly into the NBA after being away from competitive basketball and practice for 2 years. I could be wrong; but I don't believe there would be a lot of time devoted to keeping up his game while Jabari is conducting his missionary service.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevilDeb View Post
    I disagree with you and others on this thread who are not offended by the "one and done" label attached to our team. We have had two guys do this (one after playing only a limited number of games for us). That means you can count them on your thumbs. In order to total Kentucky one and dones, you need to take off your shoes and use your toes as well as your fingers!

    We are a storied basketball program with the winningest coach ever in the NCAA. We didn't get there by having one and dones... and we won't perpetuate our winning record that way. While Kyrie, had he remained healthy for the entire season, would have likely made a huge difference, Austin wasn't built to fit the Duke system.

    Anything that compares us to Kentucky (and with a negative slant) makes me furious. When Calipari gets his 900+ win, then I'll think about the viability of such a comparison. Until then, we are a program that has won with seniors (Laettner, Hurley, Hill, Battier, James, Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek... and any others I've not mentioned). Now THAT is something to be proud of!!!

    Go Devils 2012-2013!
    We have had 4 guys do this in the past 13 years. And I didn't say we were on the level of Kentucky in terms of one and done status. They are a one-and-done factory. But we have probably as many one-and-done players as any other program in the country. And we have more one-and-dones in the last two years than any program other than Kentucky. So when discussing Parker's possible destinations, it seems reasonable to consider us a team that dabbles in the one and dones.

    I also disagree with your statement that we won't perpetuate our records with one-and-dones. Coach K went hard after a likely one-and-done this past year (Muhammad), he's going hard after two possible one-and-done next years (Parker and Randle), and he's going after one (possibly two) one-and-dones the following year (Okafor and Wiggins). That's the reality of the college landscape. The best players don't plan to stay long-term anymore. So if you're going after the best players, you're going after likely one-and-dones. And Coach K is certainly going after the best players.

  16. #16
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    Mar 2008
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    raleigh
    even tho the majority of my studio's output currently is rock/pop, if the next two hits that come out of here are "gangsta rap", trust me, we're a "gangsta rap factory"...


    perception...
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    C'mon folks. Mountains out of mole hills here. As noted above, the reference to Duke as a program that is "famed" for one-and-dones is something to which many folks obviously have a visceral reaction. But it's not like this characterization is being spewed regularly by major media outlets. It had not become our identity. It's one guy in salt lake city who probably put 0.5 seconds worth of thought into choosing the word "famed" when penned this article. My bet is that he was more interested in showing just how impressive it is that Jabari is getting such attention from major programs like Duke and others. I wish as a fan base we could take a chill pill and quit over-interpreting every word that is said or written about the Duke program. It's just so... whiny.

  18. #18

    One and done

    Just to be clear -- we've had four one-and-dones in our history. Kentucky has had 10 one-and-dones in the last three years.

    That's not quite the same thing.

    Amazingly, Duke does not lead the ACC in this category -- Georgia Tech has had five one-and-dones: Stephon Marbury, Chris Bosh, Javaris Crittendon, Thaddeus Young and Derrick Favors. You could also count Dion Glover as a sixth -- he played as a freshman, tore up his knee in preseason and sat out his sophomore season, then went pro without playing another game at Georgia Tech.

    UNC has done better -- just two one-and-dones (Marvin Williams and Brandon Wright) unless you count Bob McAdoo (he was a two-year juco who went pro after one year at UNC). You've got to be impressed by Roy's ability to keep lottery picks for an extra year. A lot of guys who are mid to late first-rounders elect to return to school in the ACC -- Mason Plumlee and C.J. Leslie this year, Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith after 2010 ... too many to list.

    But how many people in ACC history have passed up the lottery to come back?

    For Duke, Jason Williams after 2001 for sure (he would have been No. 1 in the draft that year) ... Grant Hill after 1992 and maybe even 1991. Laettner after 1991. At Wake, Tim Duncan would have been lottery in 1995 and 1996 (maybe No. 1) before he was No. 1 in 1997.

    At UNC under Roy, you have Ed Davis after 2009, Barnes and maybe Henson after 2011 and McAdoo this year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ripping Roy -- I admire his ability to convince lottery picks to return for another year. So far, I don't think it helped. Davis' stock dropped a bit when he proved he couldn't carry the team in 2010 and Barnes certainly didn't help himself with a lackluster sophomore year. Henson actually seemed to show me a lot as a junior ... but his draft projections seem lower this year than they were before he pulled out of the draft last year. We'll see where he ends up.

    And we'll see if McAdoo (projected 7 to 9 on most lists before he pulled out) helps himself by staying another year.

  19. #19
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    If a kid thinks he's gonna be a one-and-done candidate, and Coach wants him here, I'm happy to be a famed o-a-d program.

    But I do long for the days when all of our players graduated, and we didn't hang the class banner if they didn't. So I am sympathetic to the OP's gut reaction. Being in the same sentence as Kentucky is rarely good.
    Roy, be a man. Accept responsibility and resign.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Phoenix, AZ

    Mission

    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    I thought it was a 1-yr mission as opposed to two. Does that mean Stillman White will be away from the Carolina program for 2 years since I believe he's left for his missionary service? I'm not sure if I'm correct on this but I thought Shawn Bradley went on his missionary service just before or while he played in the NBA; and I didn't recall him missing any time in college; but again I could be mistaken.

    As far as Parker only playing 1 year at Duke, that could happen; but I could see him coming back to Duke for at least one more year after his missionary service to build his skills back up in preparation for the NBA. I would find it hard to believe that Jabari would jump directly into the NBA after being away from competitive basketball and practice for 2 years. I could be wrong; but I don't believe there would be a lot of time devoted to keeping up his game while Jabari is conducting his missionary service.
    LDS missions are two year missions. Stillman will be gone for two years. I am not LDS myself but am related to a number of LDS members.

    During his mission he will not be maintaining his game as the entire time is spent serving the church/god.

    Especially for a kid like Jabari, it is nice to see that he puts life and thereafter ahead of money and basketball.

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