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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New York

    Pierce vs. Anthony

    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    Pierce's post-season success came later in his career than where Melo currently is in terms of age. Before that, Pierce languished on a pretty terrible Boston team. During the championship season, his stats were actually down across the board as he shared the reigns with KG, Ray Allen, and (to a lesser extent, then) Rondo. That championship is impressive, however, he only has one. Also, Melo has almost always had better rebounding numbers than Pierce, posting double digit rebound percentages every year of his career since '08 with the exception'10 when he was at 9.9. During that time, he had rebounding percentages over 11% three times. Pierce has cracked double digit rebounding percentages only three times in the past 10 seasons.

    This is not to say that Melo is better than Pierce, but aside from post-season success, I'd say that Melo has been maybe just a bit better. Pierce is a better passer and has become a better defender (Melo's biggest issue, for sure), but if Melo can ever play on a team that is built correctly, we might see him reach the same heights as Pierce. I'm not sure you can blame Melo for struggling to mesh with Amar'e as much as you can blame the Knicks brass for acquiring too many ill-fitted pieces.
    Pierce is better. Anthony is a modestly better rebounder, but Pierce is the more efficient scorer, better passer, and, even early in his career, superior defender. Anthony's best season by PER was 22.2, and his best by Win Shares was 9.4. Pierce has had 4 seasons that bettered that PER mark and 8(!) that bettered the Win Shares total. We can leave aside postseason and team success, and Pierce still comes out ahead. Over his nine-year career, Anthony has amassed 62.4 Win Shares. In Pierce's first nine seasons: 79.5.

    Another thing I would say about the Pierce comparison is that Anthony--and any young star, really--will be hard pressed to extend his prime as long as Pierce has. He turns 35 later this year, and if he is slowing down, it is only by a little. You could make the argument that his 2010-11 campaign was the best season of his career. It hasn't just been that Pierce got a better team around him and came up big in the playoffs. He has proven durable and highly productive into his mid-30s, which is no mean feat.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Des Esseintes View Post

    Another thing I would say about the Pierce comparison is that Anthony--and any young star, really--will be hard pressed to extend his prime as long as Pierce has. He turns 35 later this year, and if he is slowing down, it is only by a little. You could make the argument that his 2010-11 campaign was the best season of his career. It hasn't just been that Pierce got a better team around him and came up big in the playoffs. He has proven durable and highly productive into his mid-30s, which is no mean feat.
    Pierce has clearly matured as he has gotten older, but I don't think Anthony has, and he's already pushing 30. The Pierce of 10 years ago was a great scorer who was not a great defender or team leader. His maturation has occurred around the last five years or so, when he realized he needed to change in order to win. He does not have the explosiveness he had 10 years ago, but he's a better shooter, and a wily veteran who knows all the tricks (angles, step back shot, drawing fouls), so he's still a good scorer. However, unlike earlier, he has learned when to let the other players get more involved and when to step up, which I don't think Anthony has. Anthony will have to do so soon if he wants to be remembered as an elite player.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by hq2 View Post
    Pierce has clearly matured as he has gotten older, but I don't think Anthony has, and he's already pushing 30. The Pierce of 10 years ago was a great scorer who was not a great defender or team leader. His maturation has occurred around the last five years or so, when he realized he needed to change in order to win. He does not have the explosiveness he had 10 years ago, but he's a better shooter, and a wily veteran who knows all the tricks (angles, step back shot, drawing fouls), so he's still a good scorer. However, unlike earlier, he has learned when to let the other players get more involved and when to step up, which I don't think Anthony has. Anthony will have to do so soon if he wants to be remembered as an elite player.
    I agree that Pierce has matured as he has gotten older and that he may not be the rebounder that Carmelo is, but Pierce didn't have a lot of choice about allowing teammates to help out in the past. He played on some very poor teams for a few years where he had to do everything, and he did. I agree with others who have also mentioned that he has always been a better playmaker than Carmelo.

    I was also thinking of the Alex English comparison for Carmelo and was also thinking of the other great scorers of that era that were not able to lead their teams far in the playoffs, including Adrian Dantley, Dominique Wilkins and Mark Aguirre. I think I would put Carmelo ahead of all of them except Dominique at this point and think he deserves credit for his very solid play for the national team.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  4. #84
    Sort of on topic, Battier had zero points, zero rebounds and zero assists in Game 3 against the Knicks. But his teammates gave him the game ball for his defense on Anthony.

  5. #85
    LOL...Redick and Hansbrough just got into a 'skirmish'. Both parties should have received technicals but they only gave one to Redick.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by muzikfrk75 View Post
    LOL...Redick and Hansbrough just got into a 'skirmish'. Both parties should have received technicals but they only gave one to Redick.
    Yeah, Hansbrough threw the first shoulder and JJ retaliated with a shove. Both should have been T'd up. How Tyler didn't is beyond me. NBA must have got ACC refs for this one
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Yeah, Hansbrough threw the first shoulder and JJ retaliated with a shove. Both should have been T'd up. How Tyler didn't is beyond me. NBA must have got ACC refs for this one
    Not to mention Hansbrough had gotten away with throwing an elbow and shuffling his feet into drawing a "charge" on the previous play. Then he not only bodychecks Redick after the play, he grabs his arms while drawing to grab the ball afterwards. What a punk.

    Time for Big Baby to "accidentally" set him straight.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Heckuva response by JJ, though. 3-4 assists and a floater since then, spearheading a 10-0 run.

    ETA: Oh well, that's probably game there. Paul George with some big time shots.

  9. #89
    Redick with a game tying 3.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    JJ!!! With the game tying three, 38 seconds left.

    What a quarter for him.

  11. #91
    Horrible shot by Jameer at the end.

    OT it is.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Orlando's had nothing in OT so far. JJ's missed two open jumpers he usually makes; his shot's been off all day.

    Cool to see him essentially playing halfcourt PG in most of their sets down the stretch, though. He's been very effective in the pick and roll with Davis.

  13. #93
    I'm still not a fan of Davis.

    I remember.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Jameer Nelson is in with some bad bookies, apparently. Inexplicably stupid play there.

  15. #95
    I don't know who has been watching the Bulls the last couple of games, but the officiating has been awful. Deng gets hammered driving to hoop and falls on his injury wrist, no call. Boozer gets a phantom call on a late whistle the play before. Boozer must have a bad reputation with the refs because he gets more late whistles on him than anyone I have seen. last game I noticed a bad blocking charge call and a bogus defensive foul in the second half.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by theAlaskanBear View Post
    I don't know who has been watching the Bulls the last couple of games, but the officiating has been awful. Deng gets hammered driving to hoop and falls on his injury wrist, no call. Boozer gets a phantom call on a late whistle the play before. Boozer must have a bad reputation with the refs because he gets more late whistles on him than anyone I have seen. last game I noticed a bad blocking charge call and a bogus defensive foul in the second half.
    wow, with a minute left boozer gets hammered by two sixers going to the hoop, no call. next play holiday draws the foul with no contact on a fade away. Philly up 4 with 50 seconds left.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by theAlaskanBear View Post
    wow, with a minute left boozer gets hammered by two sixers going to the hoop, no call. next play holiday draws the foul with no contact on a fade away. Philly up 4 with 50 seconds left.
    boozer turnover. ouch. game is slipping away.

  18. #98
    Baron Davis went down with a horrible knee injury. You could tell its bad -- players didnt want to look at his knee. Needed a stretcher. New York and Miami are locking in a 2pt game in the 4th Q.

  19. #99
    Davis dislocated his patella... It looked horrible in slow motion

  20. #100
    Well, the last two games have been more like it defensively for the Bulls (79 and 89 points allowed). But the offense has disappeared. Without Rose and Noah it's looking more likely that they won't make it past round 1. What a disappointment. I was really looking forward to a probable Heat/Bulls Conference Final. Now, I just have to hope that Rose can make it back to full strength by next year's playoffs. The Bulls will probably not have homecourt advantage in the first round if they make the playoffs next year.

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