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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    The softness with which Boozer often plays these days (fadeaway jumpers, weak finishes at the rim) is very frustrating to Bulls fans, particularly against a small team like the Sixers.
    I have said it many times to my family in Illinois who never watched Boozer before he came to Chicago. He is one of the best pick and roll/pop PFs in the league, but he is no longer physically gifted enough to create his own offense and has struggled to fit in the offense in Chicago. Rose is a great player, he isn't yet the passer or pick and roll player Deron Williams was.

    Now almost 31 and in a career full of lower body injuries, he shouldn't be expected to be the offensive dynamo he once was. He is simply past his prime. I still think he can contribute, but you have to get him to take more shots (just 8 and 10 attempts the last 2 games). Make it a goal to run 10-12 pick and rolls a game with him, get him around 17 shots a game.

    Heck, you could even run pick and rolls to get Noah on the high post cause he is such a good passer and let Boozer play elbows/baseline, which would then let Noah crash the offensive boards. But I think CDu (?) said it -- the backup PGs for Chicago, especially when Lucas is in the game aren't really distributers...

    I think with Rose down the Bulls need to play more through Deng, Boozer, Noah and less through Watson/Lucas.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    The 25 fast break points were a big part of it. The Sixers did a good job of chasing Korver, Deng, and Hamilton, and the ability of those guys to work off the ball has been the key to the Bull's success without Rose. Watson and Lucas are typically better at facilitating with the pass than they were last night. I agree that they aren't pure PG in that they don't create for others off the dribble. But Rose doesn't really do that either - he is a score-first PG whose first and second instincts are to shoot off the dribble. But even still, the Bulls shot 45% from the field, which is their season average. They were above their season average from 3pt range. And they actually had fewer turnovers than usual. So that doesn't explain the loss. It's not like they were missing so many more shots or coughing the ball up so much that they were creating more easy scoring chances for Philly.

    It was just a poor defensive effort and a good shooting night by the Sixers. I was very disappointed in the defensive effort by Watson on Holliday. That's the thing he does best on the court. Against Miami, he regularly flusters Chalmers completely out of his game. Last night, though, he just couldn't do anything to stop Holliday. I expect less than stellar defense from Lucas, so that's not a shock. But Watson is a very good defender. I thought Hamilton did a good job on Turner. It was Turner who was most guilty of hitting heavily contested shots. I remember 2 or 3 mid-range shots in particular that Hamilton was all over Turner and Turner still made it. Can't fault Hamilton there. When Brand, Allen, Turner, and Hawes combine for 10 made jumpers from 15-20 feet (and shoot over 60% from the field) and when you allow 25 fast break points, that's a recipe for a loss. Add in that Williams and Holliday shot an out-of-this-world 19-28 (I don't care how open you are, if you're hitting 60+% on long jumpshots, you're having a ridiculous night) and it was trouble.
    You are quoting stats for the full game, I was referencing the second half, especially the last 8 minutes or so of the 3rd quarter and first 2-3 minutes of the fourth. This was the crucial period in the game, with the Sixers going from down 3 to up 20 in not even a full quarter, outscoring the Bulls on the order of 33-10. I was sitting 8 rows behind the Sixers bench (and basket where the Bulls shot in the second half), so unfortunately had a birds eye view. The Bulls offense during this stretch was simply horrendous, as they probably went at least 10 possessions without getting a shot in the paint or to the FT line. I would also guess that most of their TOs happened in this stretch, along with a majority of the Sixers' fast break points (and for sure the alley oops and Iggy's other slams). The defense was sub-par throughout, but I am convinced that the offensive ineptitude during this stretch is what really tipped the game, as it totally energized the Sixers while demoralizing the Bulls and taking the crowd out of the game.

    Totally agree on Hamilton and Turner. I think Rose has learned to combine facilitating and scoring. While he does still look to score first much of the time, he is very good now at driving and dishing, and in looking for other options on the break. Rose has averaged ~8 apg the past two seasons, which is not in Nash/Rondo/CP3 territority, but is considerably better than the likes of Westbrook, Brandon Jennings or Kyrie for that matter. Neither Watson or Lucas are close to D-Rose in terms of assists per minute played, and neither has the ability to constantly require help from other defenders that makes Rose so effective in running the show. The drop-off is severe, and the Bulls really need to figure out a different plan of attack offensively for the balance of the series.

  3. #63
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    While I am no Celtics fan, I can't help but admire the savvy and onions of Paul Pierce. If my life were on the line and I had to hand the ball to one NBA player to either score or get fouled, he would be right at the top of the list. Last night was kind of a must win for the Cs and he responded with a 36/14 including 11-13 from the line. As a Knicks fan, I have watched that guy break my heart too many times to not respect his game. He's nearing the end of the road, and was really one of the great bridge players from the Jordan era to the Lebron era. KG and Ray Allen are part of that same generation. With Rose out for Chicago, I think the Celtics will have their chance to come out of the East. I would have given them little to no chance if they lost last night.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    one of the great bridge players from the Jordan era to the Lebron era
    You mean the Kobe era! Kobe 5 titles, Lebron 0 titles.

  5. #65
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    Apr 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    While I am no Celtics fan, I can't help but admire the savvy and onions of Paul Pierce. If my life were on the line and I had to hand the ball to one NBA player to either score or get fouled, he would be right at the top of the list. Last night was kind of a must win for the Cs and he responded with a 36/14 including 11-13 from the line. As a Knicks fan, I have watched that guy break my heart too many times to not respect his game. He's nearing the end of the road, and was really one of the great bridge players from the Jordan era to the Lebron era. KG and Ray Allen are part of that same generation. With Rose out for Chicago, I think the Celtics will have their chance to come out of the East. I would have given them little to no chance if they lost last night.
    Definitely a Hall-of-Fame effort. Watching Pierce a long time, I've been slow to warm to him for a number of reasons, but over the past few years, I've come to appreciate how complete a player he has been.
    The Cs do have a chance in the East; losing last night might have doomed them, but with Ray back, they can play with anyone. Still not sure if they can get by the Bulls, even without Rose; Chicago
    and Boston are almost mirror image teams, except Chicago is younger, and in a seven game series, young legs cannot be discounted. Still, if they beat the Bulls, they give the Heat serious matchup problems;
    Avery Bradley is a real problem for Wade, KG hates Bosh and enjoys shutting him down, and no one on Miami can guard Rondo. That leaves only LeBron to carry them, and in the last two previous meetings,
    it wasn't enough. If the Cs beat the Bulls, they can handle Miami too.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by hq2 View Post
    Definitely a Hall-of-Fame effort. Watching Pierce a long time, I've been slow to warm to him for a number of reasons, but over the past few years, I've come to appreciate how complete a player he has been.
    The Cs do have a chance in the East; losing last night might have doomed them, but with Ray back, they can play with anyone. Still not sure if they can get by the Bulls, even without Rose; Chicago
    and Boston are almost mirror image teams, except Chicago is younger, and in a seven game series, young legs cannot be discounted. Still, if they beat the Bulls, they give the Heat serious matchup problems;
    Avery Bradley is a real problem for Wade, KG hates Bosh and enjoys shutting him down, and no one on Miami can guard Rondo. That leaves only LeBron to carry them, and in the last two previous meetings,
    it wasn't enough. If the Cs beat the Bulls, they can handle Miami too.
    It would be fun to see the Celtics give the Heat a run for their money. But the C's would have to be hitting on all cylinders. They'd need to keep it a half-court game and force the supporting cast of the Heat to knock down jumpers. It's doable. At this point, the C's are the only team that can beat the Heat in a 7 game series.

    I will always love Pierce for his tweet last year - "It was a pleasure taking my talents to South Beach" after they beat the Heat.

  7. #67
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    Mount Kisco, NY
    The only game I caught last night was the second half of the Griz v Clips. Mayo was on a roll (rim shot!), hitting threes and really harassing Chris Paul. That Memphis rotation of Conley, Mayo, Gay, Gasol, ZBo, Maurice Speights, Tony Allen and Qunicy Pondexter is NASTY.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    The only game I caught last night was the second half of the Griz v Clips. Mayo was on a roll (rim shot!), hitting threes and really harassing Chris Paul. That Memphis rotation of Conley, Mayo, Gay, Gasol, ZBo, Maurice Speights, Tony Allen and Qunicy Pondexter is NASTY.
    I watched parts of both TNT games last night. Yeah, Memphis has a nice rotation..you look at the talent, and its there...maybe a better point guard -- but Conley has really turned into a player. I'm not sure what the contract situation is like -- hopefully they can keep Gasol, Gay, Conley, and Mayo together for awhile...Randolph has three more years on a pretty big contract, so I dont know if they have the cap space to keep everyone.

    Man, the Spurs have really abused the Jazz. They were flirting with a 40-point win at times during last nights game.

  9. #69
    Heat @ Knicks then Thunder @ Mavericks tonight.

    Chris Bosh flew home, witnessed the birth of his son and is now back in NYC, expected to play tonight. Pretty cool picture here: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...173925198.html

    I expect Wade to have a monster game tonight and Lebron being Lebron. I think this game will be a lot closer but Miami should still win.

    As for the second game, the Mavericks HAVE to win...but I think that they won't. Durant hasn't shot that well yet in the series, yet they're up 2-0.

    Predicting both series are 3-0 after tonight.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by theAlaskanBear View Post
    I have said it many times to my family in Illinois who never watched Boozer before he came to Chicago. He is one of the best pick and roll/pop PFs in the league, but he is no longer physically gifted enough to create his own offense and has struggled to fit in the offense in Chicago. Rose is a great player, he isn't yet the passer or pick and roll player Deron Williams was.

    Now almost 31 and in a career full of lower body injuries, he shouldn't be expected to be the offensive dynamo he once was. He is simply past his prime. I still think he can contribute, but you have to get him to take more shots (just 8 and 10 attempts the last 2 games). Make it a goal to run 10-12 pick and rolls a game with him, get him around 17 shots a game.

    Heck, you could even run pick and rolls to get Noah on the high post cause he is such a good passer and let Boozer play elbows/baseline, which would then let Noah crash the offensive boards. But I think CDu (?) said it -- the backup PGs for Chicago, especially when Lucas is in the game aren't really distributers...

    I think with Rose down the Bulls need to play more through Deng, Boozer, Noah and less through Watson/Lucas.
    I agree with a lot of what you say. Injuries have definitely taken their toll, and the Bulls' offense doesn't really play to his strengths.

    But I don't think Bulls fan are looking for him to be dunking over people or creating a ton of offense on his own. What they are looking for him is to be more physical in establishing position, drawing contact and finishing inside. His FTAs per game were way down this year - barely 2 per game, the lowest of his career and half his average for his career (4.0) and last season with the Bulls (4.1) - which I think supports the notion that he is playing softer.

  11. #71
    I missed the 2nd half of the Heat-Bulls game but from what I've heard:

    1-Wade took over in the 3rd qtr
    2-Lebron took over in the 4th qtr
    3-Carmelo is starting to really do some damage to his legacy.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzikfrk75 View Post
    I missed the 2nd half of the Heat-Bulls game but from what I've heard:

    1-Wade took over in the 3rd qtr
    2-Lebron took over in the 4th qtr
    3-Carmelo is starting to really do some damage to his legacy.
    So just for the sake of conversation, what would you say Carmelo's legacy is now?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    So just for the sake of conversation, what would you say Carmelo's legacy is now?
    He won a championship at Syracuse... that's about it.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    He won a championship at Syracuse... that's about it.
    I think when you consider an NBA legacy, you have to factor in a couple of key metrics:
    -Championships
    -MVPs
    -All NBA teams made
    -Team playoff success
    -Cumulative stats
    -I am not as big on All Star game appearances because the starters are determined by fan voting and the reserves are only based on half a year's play.

    Obviously, he has no NBA Championships and no MVPs. But, he has made 4 All NBA Teams (one 2nd team and 3 3rd teams). That's pretty good. His team's have also made the playoffs every year he has been in the NBA. If you want to throw his Team USA success onto his resume, you can.

    He is 27 years old and should have another 5-6 really good years of ball in him. He is in his prime right now. He's likely to finish his career with more than 25,000 points which, by itself, would make him a Hall of Fame candidate. His legacy is out there to be made.

    I don't think this Heat series is hurting his legacy much - because the Knicks lack other options, the Heat are focusing most of their defensive effort on him and he's still managing to score 20+ per game. I think the segment of the seasons when he dogged it for Mike D'Antoni because he was upset about his role on the team was much worse for his legacy, added to the drama surrounding his trade demand during his last season in Denver.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    I think when you consider an NBA legacy, you have to factor in a couple of key metrics:
    -Championships
    -MVPs
    -All NBA teams made
    -Team playoff success
    -Cumulative stats
    -I am not as big on All Star game appearances because the starters are determined by fan voting and the reserves are only based on half a year's play.

    Obviously, he has no NBA Championships and no MVPs. But, he has made 4 All NBA Teams (one 2nd team and 3 3rd teams). That's pretty good. His team's have also made the playoffs every year he has been in the NBA. If you want to throw his Team USA success onto his resume, you can.

    He is 27 years old and should have another 5-6 really good years of ball in him. He is in his prime right now. He's likely to finish his career with more than 25,000 points which, by itself, would make him a Hall of Fame candidate. His legacy is out there to be made.

    I don't think this Heat series is hurting his legacy much - because the Knicks lack other options, the Heat are focusing most of their defensive effort on him and he's still managing to score 20+ per game. I think the segment of the seasons when he dogged it for Mike D'Antoni because he was upset about his role on the team was much worse for his legacy, added to the drama surrounding his trade demand during his last season in Denver.
    I think his legacy is similar to that of Alex English. Great scorer at SF, but a guy who didn't do a whole lot beyond scoring (just an okay rebounder, not a great passer, and wasn't known for defense). It's interesting, though, because I'd say the same about Paul Pierce. But Pierce probably has the leg up on both English and Anthony (despite lesser regular season numbers) because he came up big in the playoffs on a few occasions, including one championship.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think his legacy is similar to that of Alex English. Great scorer at SF, but a guy who didn't do a whole lot beyond scoring (just an okay rebounder, not a great passer, and wasn't known for defense). It's interesting, though, because I'd say the same about Paul Pierce. But Pierce probably has the leg up on both English and Anthony (despite lesser regular season numbers) because he came up big in the playoffs on a few occasions, including one championship.
    Agree with all of this. The career stats of these 3 are remarkably similar. Pierce's postseason success is a stark differentiator though.

    I have watched Melo enough to see that he CAN be very effective on the boards and a capable defender and passer. In fact, when Amare was out recently and Anthony played a lot of PF, he was often putting up better numbers across the board. But that has been the exception rather than the rule, throughout his career.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think his legacy is similar to that of Alex English. Great scorer at SF, but a guy who didn't do a whole lot beyond scoring (just an okay rebounder, not a great passer, and wasn't known for defense). It's interesting, though, because I'd say the same about Paul Pierce. But Pierce probably has the leg up on both English and Anthony (despite lesser regular season numbers) because he came up big in the playoffs on a few occasions, including one championship.
    ESPN Radio was ripping into Melo this morning. A few interesting points:

    • He's only made it past the first round of the playoffs one time (LaBron has never lost in the first round)
    • Of players that have played at least 50 playoff games, Melo has the lowest career winning percentage...ever (hope I remembered that correctly)
    • Denver got better when he left
    • The Knicks went on a LinTastic win streak when Melo was out
    • Melo and Amare really can't seem to figure out how to succeed together


    It's kind of why I asked because to me his "legacy" as it stands right now is not good. Basically he's perceived as a me first gunner who can't win when it counts. I know that's harsh but it's the perception. Note, I'm not a Knicks or Melo hater. They have been bad so long, it's hard to hate them. Yes, they need a few Duke players to help turn them around :-) but overall I'd be OK if they got to be good for a few years. Besides, Linsanity was fun!

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    Agree with all of this. The career stats of these 3 are remarkably similar. Pierce's postseason success is a stark differentiator though.

    I have watched Melo enough to see that he CAN be very effective on the boards and a capable defender and passer. In fact, when Amare was out recently and Anthony played a lot of PF, he was often putting up better numbers across the board. But that has been the exception rather than the rule, throughout his career.
    Pierce is an interesting comparison. Having that title and finals MVP, plus another NBA Finals appearance, sets him apart as you say. But, I feel like Pierce also has some intangible toughness and grit that Melo lacks. The same way K said that the position Kyle Singler played was "winner", I feel the same way about Pierce. He is also a textbook case of how a kid can be a little wild but, given the chance, can mature into a spectacular no-drama veteran. If Melo can retire with a Paul Pierce-esque career, I think he'd take it.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    ESPN Radio was ripping into Melo this morning. A few interesting points:

    • He's only made it past the first round of the playoffs one time (LaBron has never lost in the first round)
    • Of players that have played at least 50 playoff games, Melo has the lowest career winning percentage...ever (hope I remembered that correctly)
    • Denver got better when he left
    • The Knicks went on a LinTastic win streak when Melo was out
    • Melo and Amare really can't seem to figure out how to succeed together


    It's kind of why I asked because to me his "legacy" as it stands right now is not good. Basically he's perceived as a me first gunner who can't win when it counts. I know that's harsh but it's the perception. Note, I'm not a Knicks or Melo hater. They have been bad so long, it's hard to hate them. Yes, they need a few Duke players to help turn them around :-) but overall I'd be OK if they got to be good for a few years. Besides, Linsanity was fun!
    I wouldnt exactly say that Denver got better, I think they just stayed about the same without him which people found surprising, they definitely havent performed better in the post season without him. Also, the Knick have made the playoffs the past two years, something they hadn't done for like six years. Now you could argue that it was because of other factors but I just thought I'd point that out.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    Agree with all of this. The career stats of these 3 are remarkably similar. Pierce's postseason success is a stark differentiator though.

    I have watched Melo enough to see that he CAN be very effective on the boards and a capable defender and passer. In fact, when Amare was out recently and Anthony played a lot of PF, he was often putting up better numbers across the board. But that has been the exception rather than the rule, throughout his career.
    Pierce's post-season success came later in his career than where Melo currently is in terms of age. Before that, Pierce languished on a pretty terrible Boston team. During the championship season, his stats were actually down across the board as he shared the reigns with KG, Ray Allen, and (to a lesser extent, then) Rondo. That championship is impressive, however, he only has one. Also, Melo has almost always had better rebounding numbers than Pierce, posting double digit rebound percentages every year of his career since '08 with the exception'10 when he was at 9.9. During that time, he had rebounding percentages over 11% three times. Pierce has cracked double digit rebounding percentages only three times in the past 10 seasons.

    This is not to say that Melo is better than Pierce, but aside from post-season success, I'd say that Melo has been maybe just a bit better. Pierce is a better passer and has become a better defender (Melo's biggest issue, for sure), but if Melo can ever play on a team that is built correctly, we might see him reach the same heights as Pierce. I'm not sure you can blame Melo for struggling to mesh with Amar'e as much as you can blame the Knicks brass for acquiring too many ill-fitted pieces.

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