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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    I may be making excuses for what ultimately probably boils down to a bit of lazy movie scripting, but here goes...

    The first time (on the carrier) that Banner goes Hulk, he goes into Hulk mode out of control - he's enraged and kind of loses control to go into Hulk mode. The second time, he makes a conscious decision to go into Hulk mode. That may make it more of a controlled rage.

    The very end of the Edward Norton Hulk movie gives some basis for this. Throughout that movie he's fighting to avoid becoming the Hulk, then, of course, becomes the Hulk in uncontrolled-rage fashion. At the very end of the movie he's in meditation, and the movie gives a count of days since "last incident", giving the impression he's working on meditating to avoid going Hulk mode. Then he opens his eyes, the count goes to 0, his eyes are Hulk green, and he smiles, revealing that he's working on learning to control when he goes into Hulk mode and, presumably, keep some control of his actions while in Hulk mode. In watching the Avengers, I presumed his ability to choose to become the Hulk and then control himself as the Hulk was related to that.
    There was also the scene in the computer room when Stark suggested to Banner that he could control it. And Stark was the only one who seemed confident that Banner would come back to join the Avengers in New York City after he fell from the ship. I guess it leaves it to the imagination, or the cutting room floor, that Banner worked on this at some point between that conversation and when he arrived in NYC. That being said, I had the same question as you because it wasn't really explained in the movie.
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  2. #42
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    anyone catch the scene with Serenity in the background?
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    PS The flying aircraft carrier was not all that original. The same iidea was used in 2004's Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.
    The helicarrier wasn't original because Jack Kirby came up with the idea in 1965.

  4. #44

    Avengers 2

    I was curious about the news that the studio has committed to a sequal. This is what I can glean:

    1 -- Every key member of the cast is signed on for Avengers 2 EXCEPT director Josh Whedon (who has said he'd like to be involved) and Robert Downey Jr., who will cost big bucks to re-up. The question for fans of the films is Downey a must have? And if he's not involved do you (a) somehow eliminate the Iron Man/Tony Stark character or (b) sign a new Iron Man/Stark? After all, we're now on our third Hulk in the last 10 years.

    2 -- The sequel can't be before the summer of 2014 at the soonest. Next year, three films are in the words -- Iron Man 3 (Downey's last contracted appearance), Thor 2 and Captain America 2 ... Don't know a lot of details, except that Ben Kingsley is the bad guy in IM3; Natalie Portman returns to reprise her role in Thor; and the new Captain America picks up in the immediate aftermath of The Avengers.

    3 -- Thanos is PROBABLY the villain in Avengers 2 ... However I've read some speculation that the teaser in the credits at the end of Avengers is merely setting up his appearance in Thor 2 -- since in the comics, he's interested in the Tesserect and we know that Thor took that back to Asgard.

    4 -- Will there (and should there) be any new characters? I read a lot about Marvel-maniacs complaining about the absence of Ant-Man, an original Avenger. There is an Ant-Man movie in the works (apparently, there is also a reference to Dr. Henry Pym, who became Ant-Man, in the first Thor movie). I saw an interview with Whedon where he said that if he did another film, he'd like to add a female superhero. Wasp Woman? I know Spiderman was a member of the Avengers at times in the comics, but I read that Sony owns the Spiderman franchise, so no cross over. In the comics, there were a lot -- I mean A LOT -- of various members of the Avengers at times (the team had more turnover than the Big East!). The filmmakers would have an abundance of possible candidates to add to the Avengers.

    Just curious ... what would you like to see in an Avengers sequel?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I was curious about the news that the studio has committed to a sequal. This is what I can glean:

    1 -- Every key member of the cast is signed on for Avengers 2 EXCEPT director Josh Whedon (who has said he'd like to be involved) and Robert Downey Jr., who will cost big bucks to re-up. The question for fans of the films is Downey a must have? And if he's not involved do you (a) somehow eliminate the Iron Man/Tony Stark character or (b) sign a new Iron Man/Stark? After all, we're now on our third Hulk in the last 10 years.

    2 -- The sequel can't be before the summer of 2014 at the soonest. Next year, three films are in the words -- Iron Man 3 (Downey's last contracted appearance), Thor 2 and Captain America 2 ... Don't know a lot of details, except that Ben Kingsley is the bad guy in IM3; Natalie Portman returns to reprise her role in Thor; and the new Captain America picks up in the immediate aftermath of The Avengers.

    3 -- Thanos is PROBABLY the villain in Avengers 2 ... However I've read some speculation that the teaser in the credits at the end of Avengers is merely setting up his appearance in Thor 2 -- since in the comics, he's interested in the Tesserect and we know that Thor took that back to Asgard.

    4 -- Will there (and should there) be any new characters? I read a lot about Marvel-maniacs complaining about the absence of Ant-Man, an original Avenger. There is an Ant-Man movie in the works (apparently, there is also a reference to Dr. Henry Pym, who became Ant-Man, in the first Thor movie). I saw an interview with Whedon where he said that if he did another film, he'd like to add a female superhero. Wasp Woman? I know Spiderman was a member of the Avengers at times in the comics, but I read that Sony owns the Spiderman franchise, so no cross over. In the comics, there were a lot -- I mean A LOT -- of various members of the Avengers at times (the team had more turnover than the Big East!). The filmmakers would have an abundance of possible candidates to add to the Avengers.

    Just curious ... what would you like to see in an Avengers sequel?
    I would consider both Robert Downey Jr and Whedon basically essential for Avengers 2. Downey has been simply awesome as Tony Stark (even in the up and down Iron Man 2). He's probably the most enjoyable of the super heroes in the Avengers cast, and is a great counter-balance to the seriousness of the rest of the team. Whedon just seems to get it...he really nailed what Avengers should be about, and did a great job of pulling it all together.

    All the major players in Thor are re-signed for Thor 2, but there is some doubt about who will be the main bad guy. Hiddelston is back as Loki. IMDB is speculating that a character named "The Enchantress" may be in as a villain, and/or a Jotenheim warrior named Skurge. If Thanos is featured in Thor 2, perhaps he'll be a post-credits teaser?

    I have no doubt there will be some thoughts of adding a new hero or character to the mix...and Whedon and Son of Coul have both mentioned Wasp at one point or another. One thing I hope they avoid is the comic book movie franchise tendency to pile on more heroes and villains with each subsequent movie. Mainly I want to see more Hulk, I want to see some more exploration of potential tension in leadership between Cap, Iron Man, and potentially Thor (who, despite being pretty much a follower in Avengers, is a demi-god and king-in-waiting, and ought to have some desire to lead), I want to see more Scarlett Johansson fighting in a little black dress, and I want to see more Sam Jackson kicking tail.

    One further potential place for further development: the mysterious "council" was kind of hanging around as a potential problem in Avengers, and I'd like to know more about who these guys are, whether or not they have some kind of hidden agenda, and whether they might use SHIELD's resources in a negative way. SHIELD definitely has been hinted at as a potential liberty-threatening organization (jack-booted thuggishness in Thor, the deceptions and secret weapon-building in Avengers, etc). Avengers 2 could very nicely pin our heroes between the external threat of Thanos and a closer-to-home threat of the "council" turning SHIELD's resources into something nefarious.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    I would consider both Robert Downey Jr and Whedon basically essential for Avengers 2. Downey has been simply awesome as Tony Stark (even in the up and down Iron Man 2). He's probably the most enjoyable of the super heroes in the Avengers cast, and is a great counter-balance to the seriousness of the rest of the team. Whedon just seems to get it...he really nailed what Avengers should be about, and did a great job of pulling it all together.
    Here's the thing, Marvel is notorious for being kinda cheap. For example, Whedon (despite a passionate following from his TV show days) was not a well-established film director. He was a great choice, of course, and deserves so much of the credit for the success of the film, but he probably cost them no more than $1-$2 mil to write and direct this thing. His price tag will quadruple or more for a sequel and he may (justifiably) ask for "profit points" as well.

    Downey Jr will also demand huge money for Avengers 2 and likely would also ask for points. Like I said, Marvel is somewhat notoriously stingy with this kind of stuff. But, the hope is that Disney (which now owns Marvel) will give the go ahead to pay what is needed to get everyone on board.

    -Jason "pay an extra $5 mil to Whedon and get an extra $150 mil in boxoffice... probably a good deal" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  7. #47
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    jason, you are obviously plugged into the hollywood movie thing, but do you really think whedon and downey got NO points on this movie? I'm sure the advances were nice enough and justifiable for each, but wow...i have a hard time believing they got ZERO points ....is there some secret site where the contract is available to look at???
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  8. #48
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    I heard it reported that Downey will be getting around $50 million because he did get some %.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    jason, you are obviously plugged into the hollywood movie thing, but do you really think whedon and downey got NO points on this movie? I'm sure the advances were nice enough and justifiable for each, but wow...i have a hard time believing they got ZERO points ....is there some secret site where the contract is available to look at???
    Contract details like that are rarely made public. I asked around a bit and found out that Downey is going to make a mint off of Avengers. I was wrong, he does have profit points on the film. After Iron Man, his deal for Iron Man 2 included points on all Marvel properties in which he appeared. Estimates are that he will make upwards of $50 mil from Avengers. His deal for Iron Man 3, which also includes points, was already on place before Avengers came out. I would imagine one reason he and Marvel have not reached a deal on Avengers 2 is that Downey is making so much from this one, he is able to really hold their feet to the fire for the sequel. Marvel may be interested in getting someone else in the role if they can... though that is a real risk.

    I do know that Whedon did not get significant points for Avengers. Wanna know why? Cause he talked about it on his blog.

    Also, with my percentage of “the Avengers” gross, I can afford to buy… (gets call from agent. Weeps manfully. Resumes typing.) …a fine meal. But REALLY fine, with truffles and s#!+.
    I would suggest that the above is all the evidence you need that Whedon did not make big bucks off this film.

    What he did make though, in spades, was power. He was a big name in Hollywood and now he is a huge name. It seems crazy to think this, but he is now up there with Nolan, Spielberg, Cameron, and a few others in that he can make ANYTHING HE WANTS for his next film or two and it will get financed and distributed. That is rare power for a writer/director! Of course, Peter Jackson was the same way but then he made King Kong and The Lovely Bones and his power waned quite a bit. I would imagine The Hobbit will restore him to "do what I want" status. Similarly, Bryan Singer had power after The Usual Suspects and the first 2 X-Men films, but his power waned with the poor results of Superman Returns and Valkyrie. He's hope Jack the Giant Killer will put him back on top. I'm skeptical.

    Anyway, the bottom line is that Whedon will cost a good bit more for another Avengers film, no question about it.

    --Jason "by the way, RDJr is on a 6 consecutive year run of films making over $180 mil... he is HOT HOT HOT!" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I was curious about the news that the studio has committed to a sequal. This is what I can glean:

    1 -- Every key member of the cast is signed on for Avengers 2 EXCEPT director Josh Whedon (who has said he'd like to be involved) and Robert Downey Jr., who will cost big bucks to re-up. The question for fans of the films is Downey a must have? And if he's not involved do you (a) somehow eliminate the Iron Man/Tony Stark character or (b) sign a new Iron Man/Stark? After all, we're now on our third Hulk in the last 10 years.
    Like these big bucks?

    According to multiple knowledgeable sources, Iron Man/Tony Stark is set for a highflying payday of about $50 million once box-office bonuses and backend compensation are factored in...When Marvel’s "Iron Man" grossed a surprising $585 million worldwide in 2008, Downey’s reps at CAA and the Hansen Jacobson law firm renegotiated a deal to include what multiple sources say is a slice of Marvel’s revenue from future movies in which he plays Iron Man (one source puts it in the 5 percent to 7 percent range; another source disputes the percentage. Marvel and Downey’s reps declined comment).
    For me, yes, Downey is a must get. Unlike Hulk, Stark/Iron Man has become a dialogue driven character and I have a hard time imagining someone else pulling off the witty, sarcastic character without it coming across like a cheap imitation. The alternative would be an Iron Man character with a completely different personality. Without rebooting the entire series, I just don't see how it would work. IMO, you could replace every other actor but Donwey and make it work before you cold get rid of Downey. I think Disney will conclude that Downey's salary is $50 million well spent.

    Edit: Jason beat me to it. Knew I shouldn't have stopped to make the kids lunch.

  11. #51

    Downey=Stark=Ironman

    Love the input from you guys ...I'll be fascinated to see how it turns out.

    Anyway, here's my fan-boy outline for how it should play out -- negotiations between Disney/Marvell and Downey melt down. In fact, it's an ugly, bitter breakup -- kind of like Charlie Sheen and CBS.

    Marvel/Disney announces that Avengers 2 will go off without Iron Man (because it's impossible to replace Downey). Lots of disappointment and anger from the fans. lots of predictions that Avengers 2 will flop.

    Then we get to the movie and in our big mid-movie action sequence, it looks like the Avenger team is on te brink of destruction. But they are saved from death by the timely arrival of ... IRON MAN!

    He turns the tide and gets the crew to safety, then we get plenty of the banter/interplay from Tony Stark/RDowney as he explains his absence and helps plan the final battle of the movie, which, of course, ends in an improbable victory.

    Afterwards, Downey/Whedon and company explain that the public breakup was all a stunt to set up the dramatic moment when Iron Man first appears. Turns out he was re-signed for years.

    Obviously, this would be hard to pull off. An awful lot of production people would know what's going on. Plus, once the film premieres (and this one premiered nine days earlier in Europe than the US), the secret would leak. Still, just imagine the drama when Stark/Iron Man/Downey unexpectedly appears! What a payoff!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Love the input from you guys ...I'll be fascinated to see how it turns out.

    Anyway, here's my fan-boy outline for how it should play out -- negotiations between Disney/Marvell and Downey melt down. In fact, it's an ugly, bitter breakup -- kind of like Charlie Sheen and CBS.

    Marvel/Disney announces that Avengers 2 will go off without Iron Man (because it's impossible to replace Downey). Lots of disappointment and anger from the fans. lots of predictions that Avengers 2 will flop.

    Then we get to the movie and in our big mid-movie action sequence, it looks like the Avenger team is on te brink of destruction. But they are saved from death by the timely arrival of ... IRON MAN!

    He turns the tide and gets the crew to safety, then we get plenty of the banter/interplay from Tony Stark/RDowney as he explains his absence and helps plan the final battle of the movie, which, of course, ends in an improbable victory.

    Afterwards, Downey/Whedon and company explain that the public breakup was all a stunt to set up the dramatic moment when Iron Man first appears. Turns out he was re-signed for years.

    Obviously, this would be hard to pull off. An awful lot of production people would know what's going on. Plus, once the film premieres (and this one premiered nine days earlier in Europe than the US), the secret would leak. Still, just imagine the drama when Stark/Iron Man/Downey unexpectedly appears! What a payoff!
    Ya oughtta see if you can sell this idea to Whedon for a small %age of the gross receipts...
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  13. #53
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    over/under on summer glau getting the "wasp" part...?
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I would imagine one reason he and Marvel have not reached a deal on Avengers 2 is that Downey is making so much from this one, he is able to really hold their feet to the fire for the sequel. Marvel may be interested in getting someone else in the role if they can... though that is a real risk.

    Replacing Robert Downey Jr. for Tony Stark in Avengers 2: Dane Cook!

    Yeah, it's a risk, and Marvel should realize quickly there are 4 people involved in Avengers who they should pony up and pay rather than take the risk of replacing:

    Joss Whedon
    Robert Downey Jr
    Sam Jackson
    Mark Ruffalo

    I like the other people in their roles, but, honestly, you could replace Chris Hemsworth, Chris Evans, ScarJo, or Renner and move along just fine. They all did nice jobs, but Downey and Ruffalo absolutely owned their roles, Jackson is just the perfect guy for Nick Fury, and Whedon simply made all the right moves in putting this together. Marvel should remember what replacing Singer did to the X-Men franchise in the absolute drop-off in quality from X-Men and X2 to X-Men 3. Disney should remember the way a new director couldn't maintain the world of Pirates despite the return of Johnny Depp and Geoffrey Rush and the addition of Ian McShane (casting genius as Blackbeard, but utterly wasted in the movie).

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    ... Sam Jackson ... is just the perfect guy for Nick Fury, ..
    He has had some good roles, but his recent efforts have been so over the top it can't be called acting. He belongs in the old Batman series with Adam West. Rosanne Barr would be a more effective Sgt Fury - scarier too.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    He has had some good roles, but his recent efforts have been so over the top it can't be called acting. He belongs in the old Batman series with Adam West. Rosanne Barr would be a more effective Sgt Fury - scarier too.
    It's kind of difficult to make an argument about quality of acting in the Nick Fury role...that role is more about the look than anything else, and he's got it. In his meatiest recent role (in 1408), he was quite good.

    However, I absolutely agree that Rosanne Barr would make a scarier...anything...than anybody. Especially if she sings.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    It's kind of difficult to make an argument about quality of acting in the Nick Fury role...that role is more about the look than anything else, and he's got it. In his meatiest recent role (in 1408), he was quite good.

    However, I absolutely agree that Rosanne Barr would make a scarier...anything...than anybody. Especially if she sings.
    Well he's got the look, except that Nick Fury was white...

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Well he's got the look, except that Nick Fury was white...
    Those things can change quite easily from comic book to film adaptation. If I recall from the comics, there wasn't anything in particular about Fury's character that demanded he be white (obviously, for some characters in and out of comics, race is an important issue...although it's intersting that Marvel hasn't had much problem with Asgardians of Asian and African ancestry). I'm glad the moviemakers didn't let a minor point like that affect their casting decisions on Fury.

    Still, my view on such things may not be the norm. I once proposed on a discussion about casting for LOTR on a movie site that Denzel Washington would make a good Aragorn. I was roundly criticized on the basis that Aragorn was white in the books. Well, yeah, as a true LOTR geek and one of those guys who has read the trilogy more times than I should publicly admit, I knew perfectly well Aragorn was white. But, hey, did that mean that Aragorn HAD to be white in the movie? (for point of comparison, see Washington's performance as an Italian noble in Much Ado About Nothing). Interstingly, after Viggo Mortensen had been cast as Aragorn, an interviewer brought up to him the suggestion from a movie website that Washington might have made a good Aragorn, and Mortensen's response was that, having been in Crimson Tide with Washington, he thought Washington would have made an exceptionally good Aragorn.
    Last edited by davekay1971; 05-27-2012 at 09:14 AM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    Those things can change quite easily from comic book to film adaptation. If I recall from the comics, there wasn't anything in particular about Fury's character that demanded he be white (obviously, for some characters in and out of comics, race is an important issue...although it's intersting that Marvel hasn't had much problem with Asgardians of Asian and African ancestry). I'm glad the moviemakers didn't let a minor point like that affect their casting decisions on Fury.

    Still, my view on such things may not be the norm. I once proposed on a discussion about casting for LOTR on a movie site that Denzel Washington would make a good Aragorn. I was roundly criticized on the basis that Aragorn was white in the books. Well, yeah, as a true LOTR geek and one of those guys who has read the trilogy more times than I should publicly admit, I knew perfectly well Aragorn was white. But, hey, did that mean that Aragorn HAD to be white in the movie? (for point of comparison, see Washington's performance as an Italian noble in Much Ado About Nothing). Interstingly, after Viggo Mortensen had been cast as Aragorn, an interviewer brought up to him the suggestion from a movie website that Washington might have made a good Aragorn, and Mortensen's response was that, having been in Crimson Tide with Washington, he thought Washington would have made an exceptionally good Aragorn.
    I don't have any problem with casting outside of original race. And I have no problem with Sam Jackson as Nick Fury. I was just pointing out that "having the look" is not really an accurate argument for casting him. A better example of an actor who "has the look" would be Eric Dane of Grey's Anatomy.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I don't have any problem with casting outside of original race. And I have no problem with Sam Jackson as Nick Fury. I was just pointing out that "having the look" is not really an accurate argument for casting him. A better example of an actor who "has the look" would be Eric Dane of Grey's Anatomy.
    Reminds me of the movie Daredevil. Michael Clark Duncan was cast as the Kingpin, although in the comics Kingpin was always white. The director was asked about it and said Duncan was the perfect person for the part, with the only consideration being his race being different from the comic version of his character. The director eventually decided that Duncan was right for the part anyway, which was cool. The movie itself was a disappointment, but I liked the casting decision.
    "There can BE only one."

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