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Thread: NHL Playoffs

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  1. #1
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    NHL Playoffs

    Anybody been following the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs? Usually you don't see fighting during playoff games, but so far the playoff games have been littered with ugly protracted fights; disgusting, illegal hits and retaliations; and several key players knocked out of games and usually longer from such hits. A lot of it has been in the Flyers-Penguins series, but it is so widespread that it is becoming a serious problem for the league. They have to get a handle on this and figure out a way to minimize this stuff.

    What is such a shame is that the NHL is building serious momentum, particularly in big markets such as NY, Philadelphia and L.A., and this has the potential to slow down some of that momentum. The league should want more public attention - but not for this reason and not at the expense of the well-being of its players.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    A lot of it has been in the Flyers-Penguins series, but it is so widespread that it is becoming a serious problem for the league. They have to get a handle on this and figure out a way to minimize this stuff.
    With the exception of Torres (at least until we get a final ruling after his hearing on Friday), the punishments being handed down from the league for the various offenses don't suggest that they view it as a particular problem, or something needing to be minimized. Reportedly even Mario Lemiuex was "embarrassed" by the Pens actions in the most recent game, but he hasn't said anything publicly. Hard to blame him - if he said anything negative about that team, he'd probably get fined.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  3. #3
    Def agree with the observation of escalating physical play. Seems to be what Bettman wants in order to bring the ratings up.

    Sorry to see the Wing go down. More sorry to see "The Perfect Human" and his buddy Holmstrom (my serious crush) possibly retiring.
    The Wing just could not find the slivers around the net but it was some great, GREAT skating.....

    Bummed!!!!

  4. #4
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    I hope last night wasn't the last night we see Lidstrom and Holmstrom in a Wings uniform. IMO, they should just fast-track Lidstrom for the HOF. The Wings got tired and hurt down the stretch and they while they skated well, they just couldn't put anything together against the Preds, a very good team.

    Best of luck to the Preds down the stretch...you can tell they're hungry and Pekka Rinne is on fire. They're gonna be a tough out.
    2003-2004 HLM

    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    With the exception of Torres (at least until we get a final ruling after his hearing on Friday), the punishments being handed down from the league for the various offenses don't suggest that they view it as a particular problem, or something needing to be minimized.
    25 Games for Torres: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home

    It looks like Brendan Shannahan has chosen to follow the immortal words of Dean Vernon Wormer: "The time has come for someone to put his foot down, and that foot is me."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue KevIL View Post
    25 Games for Torres: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home

    It looks like Brendan Shannahan has chosen to follow the immortal words of Dean Vernon Wormer: "The time has come for someone to put his foot down, and that foot is me."
    It is always just unfortunate that it takes one guy getting seriously injured to send a message to a role player. If Zetterberg gets injured or if Weber isn't Shea Weber, there would be a suspension. The NHL needs to start suspending players on intent as opposed to results. James Neal could have seriously hurt Couturier or Giroux of the Flyers but only gets 1 game b/c nobody went off on a stretcher or Malkin doesn't even get a phone call after multiple dirty hits.

    So in reality, if you are a role player with any history, you will be suspended for little things but if you are a star you can get away with anything as long as nobody gets injured. And if you knock a guy out with a concussion you might see a few games ban while the other guy could easily be done for his career. If the punishments aren't a deterrent, then people will continue trying to hurt people but if you are going to miss 1/4 of the season, guys would think twice about taking runs at people.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    It is always just unfortunate that it takes one guy getting seriously injured to send a message to a role player. If Zetterberg gets injured or if Weber isn't Shea Weber, there would be a suspension. The NHL needs to start suspending players on intent as opposed to results. James Neal could have seriously hurt Couturier or Giroux of the Flyers but only gets 1 game b/c nobody went off on a stretcher or Malkin doesn't even get a phone call after multiple dirty hits.

    So in reality, if you are a role player with any history, you will be suspended for little things but if you are a star you can get away with anything as long as nobody gets injured. And if you knock a guy out with a concussion you might see a few games ban while the other guy could easily be done for his career. If the punishments aren't a deterrent, then people will continue trying to hurt people but if you are going to miss 1/4 of the season, guys would think twice about taking runs at people.
    Consequential injuries are often a good indicator of the recklessness of the conduct involved. Sure, if Zetterberg had been injured, Weber would be subject to a lengthy suspension; but then, if Z had been injured, it would be much harder to characterize the play as a thoughtless but trivial (almost playful, I'd say, but I'm not a Wings fan) bonk on the glass. Meanwhile, Hossa's injury visibly underscored the vulnerable position Hossa was in when the hit was made.

    The idea that the game is getting more out of control is wrongheaded, and is fuelled, I think, by the obsession of certain members of the media who see it as good column fodder. The truth is that the NHL has focused on reducing dangerous play, specifically hits to the head, like never before, and have been doling out suspensions at an unprecedented rate. How could they not, when hockey's Lebron James missed most of two seasons with a head injury?

    Torres got what he probably deserved, given his record. But five years ago, he may not have been suspended at all. Hell, Bertuzzi got less time than Torres, in one of the ugliest plays in NHL history.

    As for supposed star treatment, it probably exists to some extent like in all sports, but note that the list of players suspended just this year includes Nick Backstrom, Alex Ovechkin, Duncan Keith, Jeff Skinner, Mike Green, Shane Doan, Kris Letang, and Milan Lucic. That's a veritable All-Star team.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    Consequential injuries are often a good indicator of the recklessness of the conduct involved. Sure, if Zetterberg had been injured, Weber would be subject to a lengthy suspension; but then, if Z had been injured, it would be much harder to characterize the play as a thoughtless but trivial (almost playful, I'd say, but I'm not a Wings fan) bonk on the glass. Meanwhile, Hossa's injury visibly underscored the vulnerable position Hossa was in when the hit was made.

    The idea that the game is getting more out of control is wrongheaded, and is fuelled, I think, by the obsession of certain members of the media who see it as good column fodder. The truth is that the NHL has focused on reducing dangerous play, specifically hits to the head, like never before, and have been doling out suspensions at an unprecedented rate. How could they not, when hockey's Lebron James missed most of two seasons with a head injury?

    Torres got what he probably deserved, given his record. But five years ago, he may not have been suspended at all. Hell, Bertuzzi got less time than Torres, in one of the ugliest plays in NHL history.

    As for supposed star treatment, it probably exists to some extent like in all sports, but note that the list of players suspended just this year includes Nick Backstrom, Alex Ovechkin, Duncan Keith, Jeff Skinner, Mike Green, Shane Doan, Kris Letang, and Milan Lucic. That's a veritable All-Star team.
    I would vehemently disagree with the idea that injuries are any indicator of the recklessness involved. Again, Shea Weber could have easily ended Zetterberg's season and perhaps career. Crosby missed all that time on less reckless hits. Chris Pronger and Marc Savard are looking at the end of their careers for hits with less maliciousness.

    If you think this is about the media then you probably think the NFL going after head shots is the same thing. The fact is concussions are changing sports as we know it. Yes, the NHL is punishing at an unprecedented rate but it doesn't mean the rate is enough and I couldn't care less about 5 years ago. 5 years ago concussions were not monitored nearly enough with baseline tests so I see no correlation and I will compare it to the NFL which is of similar physicality where 5 years ago you could launch yourself headfirst at a receive and it would be a good hit. Does that make it right now?

    As far as the list of individuals suspended, suspending a guy a few games in the regular season is hardly the same as effectively suspending a guy for the entire playoffs. While Torres has more of a history then say James Neal, tell me what exactly was the difference between James Neal's hit or Torres' hit apart from one guy leaving on a stretcher and another guy being a 40 goal scorer. The fact remains the NHL loves making an example of role players who aren't the stars of the game. The sad part is this will probably eventually result in the star players being injured. What happens when these head shots actually connect several consecutive times and you have a finals with the Canucks without the Sedins, the Red Wings without Zetterberg, the Flyers without Pronger and Giroux, etc. The fact that the NHL continues to use injuries or the lack of injuries in their decisions is just asking for trouble.

  9. #9
    What drives me crazy is that the Bruins have been blatantly head hunting Backstrom, who missed half the season with a concussion, all series, and the one time he fights back, he gets suspended for a game. Talk about inconsistent reffing. Several of these teams look like they've taken a page out of the Saints' play book.
    LET'S GO DUKE!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    I would vehemently disagree with the idea that injuries are any indicator of the recklessness involved. Again, Shea Weber could have easily ended Zetterberg's season and perhaps career. Crosby missed all that time on less reckless hits. Chris Pronger and Marc Savard are looking at the end of their careers for hits with less maliciousness.

    If you think this is about the media then you probably think the NFL going after head shots is the same thing. The fact is concussions are changing sports as we know it. Yes, the NHL is punishing at an unprecedented rate but it doesn't mean the rate is enough and I couldn't care less about 5 years ago. 5 years ago concussions were not monitored nearly enough with baseline tests so I see no correlation and I will compare it to the NFL which is of similar physicality where 5 years ago you could launch yourself headfirst at a receive and it would be a good hit. Does that make it right now?

    As far as the list of individuals suspended, suspending a guy a few games in the regular season is hardly the same as effectively suspending a guy for the entire playoffs. While Torres has more of a history then say James Neal, tell me what exactly was the difference between James Neal's hit or Torres' hit apart from one guy leaving on a stretcher and another guy being a 40 goal scorer. The fact remains the NHL loves making an example of role players who aren't the stars of the game. The sad part is this will probably eventually result in the star players being injured. What happens when these head shots actually connect several consecutive times and you have a finals with the Canucks without the Sedins, the Red Wings without Zetterberg, the Flyers without Pronger and Giroux, etc. The fact that the NHL continues to use injuries or the lack of injuries in their decisions is just asking for trouble.
    I think we'll continue to disagree on a number of things, but I should say that I'm not at all dismissive of the importance of reducing head injuries; rather, I think the NHL is making a creditable and nuanced, if imperfect, effort and meanwhile, certain members of the media (Pierre McGuire and Stu Hackel I find particularly lacking in astuteness) interpret every questionable hit as a sign of hockey's worsening danger and gruesomeness and inevitable alienation of fans (who, it should be pointed out, actually really like big hits).

    Second, while I do think Torres' hit was a little worse than Neal's, more importantly, it would be a huge misrepresentation to say that Torres has a little more history: no one has a worse history, save perhaps Matt Cooke, of failing to rein in dangerous play even after a number of suspensions, than Torres.

  11. #11
    Well, come Wednesday, we may be looking at a final 8 teams that have a total of 2 Cups between them, those being the '74 and '75 championships won by the Broad Street Bullies (somewhat appropriate, given the discussions of this thread).

    Will fans lose interest without the traditional powers? I know there are some Caps fans about, but will anyone be excited about a Nashville-St. Louis final?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    Well, come Wednesday, we may be looking at a final 8 teams that have a total of 2 Cups between them, those being the '74 and '75 championships won by the Broad Street Bullies (somewhat appropriate, given the discussions of this thread).

    Will fans lose interest without the traditional powers? I know there are some Caps fans about, but will anyone be excited about a Nashville-St. Louis final?
    I will.

  13. #13
    Maybe I should have gone with Nashville-Phoenix. The Blues have had about as much success as any franchise that hasn't won a Cup; they're due.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    Maybe I should have gone with Nashville-Phoenix. The Blues have had about as much success as any franchise that hasn't won a Cup; they're due.
    Well LA will be able to hold its own if they get to the SCF. Additionally, the East will probably produce either Bos, NY, or Phi. at this point which will provide teams to watch. I honestly can't see Phoenix continue to get out-shot 16-2 in a period and win especially when the other team will either have an equal or better in net. That said, apart from NY bringing NY audience with them, they would probably bring with them a similar style of play to that of most of the Western teams to produce a lackluster finals. I'd have to think the Kings would provide an interesting match-up for all teams, they have the underdog, new coach story-lines and have offense. And they would match-up well with any team from the East.

  15. #15
    According to radio reports, the twitterverse is abuzz with racist comments after Joel Ward scored the definitive goal in the closest series in NHL history to lift the Caps over the Bruins. Stay classy, Boston.


    http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/t...ards_triu.html

    Warning, this next one includes some explicit examples:
    http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/4/2...tals-vs-bruins
    Last edited by bjornolf; 04-26-2012 at 11:01 AM.
    LET'S GO DUKE!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    According to radio reports, the twitterverse is abuzz with racist comments after Joel Ward scored the definitive goal in the closest series in NHL history to lift the Caps over the Bruins. Stay classy, Boston.


    http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/t...ards_triu.html

    Warning, this next one includes some explicit examples:
    http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/4/2...tals-vs-bruins
    Not the first time this has been done by Boston fans. I remember hearing this crap when I was up there last year for the US-Spain soccer match (the Bruins were in the Stanley Cup Finals and lost in OT that night). I heard it at the stadium and at the bars when the Bruins lost. Just awful.
    2003-2004 HLM

    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  17. #17
    I guess I don't mind all the stress of a triple-ot game when my team wins, but man, that was tough to handle. Hockey really is special come playoff time.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    I guess I don't mind all the stress of a triple-ot game when my team wins, but man, that was tough to handle. Hockey really is special come playoff time.
    How did you like tonight's Rangers-Capitals game? What a finish. Ward, the hero in Washington's game 7 win over Boston, just became - at least for now - the goat of the Rangers series.

    I can only echo what you said - there is nothing like playoff hockey.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    How did you like tonight's Rangers-Capitals game? What a finish. Ward, the hero in Washington's game 7 win over Boston, just became - at least for now - the goat of the Rangers series.

    I can only echo what you said - there is nothing like playoff hockey.
    To be honest, obviously an enjoyable game and a pretty epic finish from a Rangers' fan's perspective, but it left me very concerned about the team. The inability to create solid scoring chances is really frustrating. Holtby has played well, but for the most part I think the Rangers have just failed to get good shots on him, even while controlling the puck well in the offensive zone, more than he's stoned them. When it's such a struggle to score goals, you're constantly flirting with disaster.

    But yes, that was certainly a thrilling finish. (And I am certainly grateful that they not only won, but allowed me to get a good night's sleep to boot).
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue KevIL View Post
    25 Games for Torres: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home

    It looks like Brendan Shannahan has chosen to follow the immortal words of Dean Vernon Wormer: "The time has come for someone to put his foot down, and that foot is me."
    I thought that was Christian's line.

    -jk

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