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  1. #1

    Harris and Uthoff Transfer thoughts

    http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

    How would we have felt if Nolan had transfered to Stanford after his sophomore season? (Obviously that would have decimated what turned out to be the 2010 title team, so try to ignore that hindsight impact...) I seem to remember there being talk that Nolan considered transfering out, but I dont remember Stanford being discussed as a destination. Would we have been unforgiving to the point of disowning Dawkins as a member of the family?

    (If this link/discussion belongs in an existing thread, mods feel free to move...)
    Last edited by JBDuke; 04-18-2012 at 09:07 AM. Reason: fixed link

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    Interesting. I didn't even think they had tampering rules in college...

  3. #3
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    As I read it, Martin is preventing Harris from going into a situation where he might be subjected to NCAA penalties. Seems like he's protecting the kid, IMO.
    No soup for you!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    1) Your link seems broken
    2) who are you talking about? Can you give some context and fix the link?
    http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

    Damontre Harris plays for USC. Former USC assistant Orlando Early is now working on the N.C. State staff. Harris requested release to transfer. Coach Frank Martin has granted it for every school but NC State.

    I think that we would have faced a similar situation if Nolan had tried to transfer to Standford. I was wondering what we as fans would feel about Nolan and Dawkins if that had happened. Its easy to weigh in in favor of the kid when its not happening to us

  5. #5
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    Bo Ryan appears to be something similar with Jarrod Uthoff

    And his banned list includes the ACC, the Big Ten, Marquette and Iowa State

    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...-list-is-large

    Coming after the absurdity of what Phil Martelli did, and what Randy Edsall attempted to do, I'm at a loss for words.

    To put it mildly, I find this unacceptable.

  6. #6
    Edsall was (properly) chastised up and down for doing the same thing until he relented and approved Vanderbilt as a possible transfer for O'Brien and the other 2 football players.

    I hope there is a similar treatment for Bo Ryan.
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  7. #7
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    Harris should see if Wake is interested. They could use him.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

    I think that we would have faced a similar situation if Nolan had tried to transfer to Standford. I was wondering what we as fans would feel about Nolan and Dawkins if that had happened. Its easy to weigh in in favor of the kid when its not happening to us
    Wouldn't have happened. Didn't happen. Dawkins is one of the main reasons Nolan came to Duke and one of the main reasons he stayed (and if he had gone anywhere - it was Louisville).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Wouldn't have happened. Didn't happen. Dawkins is one of the main reasons Nolan came to Duke and one of the main reasons he stayed (and if he had gone anywhere - it was Louisville).
    I agree that it did not happen, I remeber reading that Dawkins helped talk him into not transfering even after he went to Standford.

    The point of the question was counterfactual - how would we feel if? Because as you can see from the other responses on this thread, lots of people feel its wrong to limit the kids transfer options. If we truly believe that how would we feel if it happened to us? The Nolan/Dawkins hypo was the most similar to the USC situation that I could come up with. USC is not letting a kid follow the assistant coach who recruited him. How would we feel if Nolan had tried to follow Dawkins? Would we have wanted K to exclude Standford as a transfer destination or would we line up behind the kids freedom?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    I agree that it did not happen, I remeber reading that Dawkins helped talk him into not transfering even after he went to Standford.

    The point of the question was counterfactual - how would we feel if? Because as you can see from the other responses on this thread, lots of people feel its wrong to limit the kids transfer options. If we truly believe that how would we feel if it happened to us? The Nolan/Dawkins hypo was the most similar to the USC situation that I could come up with. USC is not letting a kid follow the assistant coach who recruited him. How would we feel if Nolan had tried to follow Dawkins? Would we have wanted K to exclude Standford as a transfer destination or would we line up behind the kids freedom?
    The Athletic Dept. didn't stop a women's coach from going to UNC, why do you think we would EVER block a student's path?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    I agree that it did not happen, I remeber reading that Dawkins helped talk him into not transfering even after he went to Standford.

    The point of the question was counterfactual - how would we feel if? Because as you can see from the other responses on this thread, lots of people feel its wrong to limit the kids transfer options. If we truly believe that how would we feel if it happened to us? The Nolan/Dawkins hypo was the most similar to the USC situation that I could come up with. USC is not letting a kid follow the assistant coach who recruited him. How would we feel if Nolan had tried to follow Dawkins? Would we have wanted K to exclude Standford as a transfer destination or would we line up behind the kids freedom?
    I'll answer the hypothetical you posed. It doesn't matter where the kid is transferring to, he should be allowed to do it.

    To delve into this a little more. I believe that transferring is actually 2 separate, but related, decision. One is the decision to leave, the other is a decision on where to go. Once a guy decides to leave, to me, that ends the ability of the school which he is leaving to determine his fate (I know this is not how the NCAA sees things - imho, they are wrong). Once they have left, where they go is their choice, even if it is to a school where our former assistant coach was the guy who recruited him to Duke.

    I realize that their are potential tampering issues and recruiting violations in scenarios such as the one described (assistant who recruited player to school, changes schools, recruited player wants to follow coach), but I would err strongly on the side of letting the player do what he wants to do.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    The Athletic Dept. didn't stop a women's coach from going to UNC, why do you think we would EVER block a student's path?
    You're missing the point. The discussion is about how we would feel IF such a situation arose. Obviously it isn't likely that such a situation is going to arise. It's a hypothetical situation, not in any way intended to be a questioning of Duke's practices. No one is suggesting the situation is ever going to arise at Duke. The poster is just asking us to put ourselves in another fanbase's shoes and think about how we'd feel in that situation.

  13. #13
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    Here's a question (and I'm asking this not because I have a particular answer in mind, but to get a good feel/understanding for the general reasoning):

    If a recruited student decides to attend a particular school to be with a certain coach (or assistant coach) and that coach then leaves or is fired for some reason, why is it so bad for that recruit to then follow the coach? What is the exact problem posed?
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  14. #14
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    Another coach, another transfer restriction

    Danny Mannning, the new Tulsa coach, has restricted Jordan Clarkson from transferring. Clarkson gets to transfer to 3 schools on a list of 8 he submitted.

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextr...1_CUTLIN415222

    Honestly, this is driving me crazy. Manning, Ryan, Martelli are guys I respect a lot - and have lost a lot of that respect by the way they are treating these guys who want to transfer.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    Here's a question (and I'm asking this not because I have a particular answer in mind, but to get a good feel/understanding for the general reasoning):

    If a recruited student decides to attend a particular school to be with a certain coach (or assistant coach) and that coach then leaves or is fired for some reason, why is it so bad for that recruit to then follow the coach? What is the exact problem posed?
    I think (speculation) that the 'problem' the NCAA is addressing is the worry that coaches might use the threat of taking their roster with them to extract bigger salaries out of colleges - imagine if Calipari could promise to take 4 5star recruits with him that had already committed to UK when his contract comes for renewal. I dont know how often this would be an issue or if it is a 'legitimate' concern to begin with, but I think that is the NCAA's problem with it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    You're missing the point. The discussion is about how we would feel IF such a situation arose. Obviously it isn't likely that such a situation is going to arise. It's a hypothetical situation, not in any way intended to be a questioning of Duke's practices. No one is suggesting the situation is ever going to arise at Duke. The poster is just asking us to put ourselves in another fanbase's shoes and think about how we'd feel in that situation.
    I'm a man - I don't feel!


  17. #17
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    Apparently Bo Ryan was Mike and Mike this morning and stuck to his guns re: transfer restrictions - if I can trust the reporters on my Twitter feed who are commenting on this.

    It stuns me that these coaches don't understand how petty and autocratic it makes them look.

    And as a Duke fan, it is my hope that should a kid decide that Duke wasn't the place for him, that we wouldn't put restrictions on where he can transfer to.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dyedwab View Post

    And as a Duke fan, it is my hope that should a kid decide that Duke wasn't the place for him, that we wouldn't put restrictions on where he can transfer to.
    Jeff Goodman did a breakdown of some of the top transfers and the restrictions they have. Michael he has no restrictions.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

    How would we have felt if Nolan had transfered to Stanford after his sophomore season? (Obviously that would have decimated what turned out to be the 2010 title team, so try to ignore that hindsight impact...) I seem to remember there being talk that Nolan considered transfering out, but I dont remember Stanford being discussed as a destination. Would we have been unforgiving to the point of disowning Dawkins as a member of the family?
    Ironically, not only did Johnny Dawkins not recruit Nolan and also helped talk him out of transferring, Duke got Miles Plumlee from Stanford due to the coaching change, another positiive that helped 2010 title team.

    Goodman article says it all, Bo Ryan was more than a tad excessive banning entire ACC as there is 1/12 chance they play Wisc in ACC-B10 challenge, as was the coach who banned anybody they could play in next two years.

    If anything the player transferring cannot play for teams they play next season due to having to sit out but within conference ban seem ok to do.

    Tampering is hard to prove but does send a message with that NC State ban by Frank Martin at So Carolina.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ACCBBallFan View Post
    Ironically, not only did Johnny Dawkins not recruit Nolan and also helped talk him out of transferring, Duke got Miles Plumlee from Stanford due to the coaching change, another positiive that helped 2010 title team.

    Goodman article says it all, Bo Ryan was more than a tad excessive banning entire ACC as there is 1/12 chance they play Wisc in ACC-B10 challenge, as was the coach who banned anybody they could play in next two years.

    If anything the player transferring cannot play for teams they play next season due to having to sit out but within conference ban seem ok to do.

    Tampering is hard to prove but does send a message with that NC State ban by Frank Martin at So Carolina.
    Mike Chappell transferred to MSU and we played them, what 2 times? I don't remember anyone complaining or thinking this was some terrible advantage that Izzo had.

    Ryan needs to lift all restrictions along with Manning, Martin, and others. This is just pathetic.
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

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