Harris and Uthoff Transfer thoughts

[niveklaen]

http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

How would we have felt if Nolan had transfered to Stanford after his sophomore season? (Obviously that would have decimated what turned out to be the 2010 title team, so try to ignore that hindsight impact...) I seem to remember there being talk that Nolan considered transfering out, but I dont remember Stanford being discussed as a destination. Would we have been unforgiving to the point of disowning Dawkins as a member of the family?

(If this link/discussion belongs in an existing thread, mods feel free to move...)

[ACCBBallFan]

http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

How would we have felt if Nolan had transfered to Stanford after his sophomore season? (Obviously that would have decimated what turned out to be the 2010 title team, so try to ignore that hindsight impact...) I seem to remember there being talk that Nolan considered transfering out, but I dont remember Stanford being discussed as a destination. Would we have been unforgiving to the point of disowning Dawkins as a member of the family?

Ironically, not only did Johnny Dawkins not recruit Nolan and also helped talk him out of transferring, Duke got Miles Plumlee from Stanford due to the coaching change, another positiive that helped 2010 title team.

Goodman article says it all, Bo Ryan was more than a tad excessive banning entire ACC as there is 1/12 chance they play Wisc in ACC-B10 challenge, as was the coach who banned anybody they could play in next two years.

If anything the player transferring cannot play for teams they play next season due to having to sit out but within conference ban seem ok to do.

Tampering is hard to prove but does send a message with that NC State ban by Frank Martin at So Carolina.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Ironically, not only did Johnny Dawkins not recruit Nolan and also helped talk him out of transferring, Duke got Miles Plumlee from Stanford due to the coaching change, another positiive that helped 2010 title team.

Goodman article says it all, Bo Ryan was more than a tad excessive banning entire ACC as there is 1/12 chance they play Wisc in ACC-B10 challenge, as was the coach who banned anybody they could play in next two years.

If anything the player transferring cannot play for teams they play next season due to having to sit out but within conference ban seem ok to do.

Tampering is hard to prove but does send a message with that NC State ban by Frank Martin at So Carolina.

Mike Chappell transferred to MSU and we played them, what 2 times? I don't remember anyone complaining or thinking this was some terrible advantage that Izzo had.

Ryan needs to lift all restrictions along with Manning, Martin, and others. This is just pathetic.

[niveklaen]

1) Your link seems broken
2) who are you talking about? Can you give some context and fix the link?

http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

Damontre Harris plays for USC. Former USC assistant Orlando Early is now working on the N.C. State staff. Harris requested release to transfer. Coach Frank Martin has granted it for every school but NC State.

I think that we would have faced a similar situation if Nolan had tried to transfer to Standford. I was wondering what we as fans would feel about Nolan and Dawkins if that had happened. Its easy to weigh in in favor of the kid when its not happening to us

[dyedwab]

And his banned list includes the ACC, the Big Ten, Marquette and Iowa State

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...-list-is-large

Coming after the absurdity of what Phil Martelli did, and what Randy Edsall attempted to do, I'm at a loss for words.

To put it mildly, I find this unacceptable.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Edsall was (properly) chastised up and down for doing the same thing until he relented and approved Vanderbilt as a possible transfer for O'Brien and the other 2 football players.

I hope there is a similar treatment for Bo Ryan.

[Jim3k]

Harris should see if Wake is interested. They could use him.

[Jim3k]

And his banned list includes the ACC, the Big Ten, Marquette and Iowa State

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...-list-is-large

Coming after the absurdity of what Phil Martelli did, and what Randy Edsall attempted to do, I'm at a loss for words.

To put it mildly, I find this unacceptable.

Looks like Uthoff doesn't care what restrictions Ryan has placed. He's transferring to Iowa, a Big Ten member. He says he'll pay his own way for the sit-out year. And he can do so easily because he's an Iowa resident.

Ryan's prohibition was levied on Iowa institutionally, prohibiting Iowa from contacting Uthoff. So can Uthoff defeat Ryan's prohibition by contacting Iowa? Enrolling at Iowa? Walking on at Iowa?

So now that Uthoff has challenged Ryan, what will be his response? Can the Big Ten do anything? If it can, will it?

[Newton_14]

Looks like Uthoff doesn't care what restrictions Ryan has placed. He's transferring to Iowa, a Big Ten member. He says he'll pay his own way for the sit-out year. And he can do so easily because he's an Iowa resident.

Ryan's prohibition was levied on Iowa institutionally, prohibiting Iowa from contacting Uthoff. So can Uthoff defeat Ryan's prohibition by contacting Iowa? Enrolling at Iowa? Walking on at Iowa?

So now that Uthoff has challenged Ryan, what will be his response? Can the Big Ten do anything? If it can, will it?

I love it. Thanks for sharing Jim. These restrictions are stupid to begin with. Why should Ryan have any say so whatsoever regarding what this young man does with his career and life? I hope that both Wisconsin, the Big Ten, and the NCAA end up discovering they are powerless to stop this. Will be interesting to watch this play out.

[COYS]

Looks like Uthoff doesn't care what restrictions Ryan has placed. He's transferring to Iowa, a Big Ten member. He says he'll pay his own way for the sit-out year. And he can do so easily because he's an Iowa resident.

Ryan's prohibition was levied on Iowa institutionally, prohibiting Iowa from contacting Uthoff. So can Uthoff defeat Ryan's prohibition by contacting Iowa? Enrolling at Iowa? Walking on at Iowa?

So now that Uthoff has challenged Ryan, what will be his response? Can the Big Ten do anything? If it can, will it?

Yes, very interesting. Surely there's no legal basis for preventing the transfer. Uthoff never signed a non-compete contract, I'm sure. I love the way Ryan's teams play and admired him as a coach because of that. But this is impossible for me to rationalize. I didn't post at first because I kept expecting more details to come out that would explain the situation more clearly, but it doesn't seem like anything will come out that makes Ryan look any better.

[oldnavy]

I agree, once the decision is made to transfer then the school losing the player has no say in where he goes. Can a school or conference stop a coach from moving to any school he wants? I mean if Haith had wanted to take a job at Florida, could Miami have said, no??? This is just another example of how the kids get the shaft by the NCAA. I say let them go wherever they want, sit out the year and be done with it. If they are recruits and have signed a LOI, then if a school wants to hold them to the LOI, I'd say OK, but then I'd give the kid the option of spending the year he sits out with the team he chooses to move to, it would be like a red shirt season, but with the new school. If the school with the LOI in hand releases him, then he is free to go wherever and play right away like anyother freshman could.

[JasonEvans]

It is important to note that some transfer restrictions are probably necessary. If not, then a coach could leave a school and take all his players with him. For example, when Cal left Memphis for Kentucky, imagine if he could have taken all his best recruits and players with him with no penalty and no recourse for Memphis. It would have utterly decimated the Memphis program.

If that kind of thing was allowed, it would turn coaches into commodities with too much power. At any given moment, a coach could get a higher offer from another school and take his entire roster with him to the new school. It would be a problem.

--Jason "transfer rules must be changed to be more balanced, but giving all the power to the players is not the right solution either" Evans

[pfrduke]

It is important to note that some transfer restrictions are probably necessary. If not, then a coach could leave a school and take all his players with him. For example, when Cal left Memphis for Kentucky, imagine if he could have taken all his best recruits and players with him with no penalty and no recourse for Memphis. It would have utterly decimated the Memphis program.

If that kind of thing was allowed, it would turn coaches into commodities with too much power. At any given moment, a coach could get a higher offer from another school and take his entire roster with him to the new school. It would be a problem.

--Jason "transfer rules must be changed to be more balanced, but giving all the power to the players is not the right solution either" Evans

You mean like John Wall and Demarcus Cousins?

[dcdevil2009]

You mean like John Wall and Demarcus Cousins?

It's somewhat interesting to note that neither Wall or Cousins had signed a letter of intent for Memphis. I've got a number of issues with Calipari's approach, but I'm actually a fan of him not requiring his recruits to sign letters of intent and believe it strikes a better balance of power between the schools, kids, and coaches. Even though some would consider it unfair for a coach to go elsewhere and take his recruits with him, a school shouldn't be able to fire a coach and then prevent the incoming freshmen that coach recruited from playing elsewhere. By having his recruits fill out the financial aid paperwork, but not sign a letter of intent, he gives his players the freedom to play elsewhere should circumstances change between their "commitment" and actually enrolling in school. As Duke fans, we of all people should appreciate how important the coach is in a recruit's decision. To allow a school to change coaches and a coach to move to a different job without at least giving some consideration to the recruit is just unfair given the reality of the recruiting process.

Perhaps a better rule would be to allow players to transfer to different schools based on the circumstances surrounding a coach's departure. If a coach leaves for another school voluntarily, then recruits could transfer, but would have to sit a year if they followed the coach or went to any school scheduled to play the original school the next season. If the school makes the coaching change, then players could transfer freely without restrictions. Finally, the current rules would apply without a coaching change. Obviously, there should be some exceptions, such as a coach that gets fired "for cause" not getting to take his players with him, but in general I think this would help address the fiction that a kid commits to a school and not the coach better than the current system.

[SupaDave]

http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...ept-n-c-state/

I think that we would have faced a similar situation if Nolan had tried to transfer to Standford. I was wondering what we as fans would feel about Nolan and Dawkins if that had happened. Its easy to weigh in in favor of the kid when its not happening to us

Wouldn't have happened. Didn't happen. Dawkins is one of the main reasons Nolan came to Duke and one of the main reasons he stayed (and if he had gone anywhere - it was Louisville).

[niveklaen]

Wouldn't have happened. Didn't happen. Dawkins is one of the main reasons Nolan came to Duke and one of the main reasons he stayed (and if he had gone anywhere - it was Louisville).

I agree that it did not happen, I remeber reading that Dawkins helped talk him into not transfering even after he went to Standford.

The point of the question was counterfactual - how would we feel if? Because as you can see from the other responses on this thread, lots of people feel its wrong to limit the kids transfer options. If we truly believe that how would we feel if it happened to us? The Nolan/Dawkins hypo was the most similar to the USC situation that I could come up with. USC is not letting a kid follow the assistant coach who recruited him. How would we feel if Nolan had tried to follow Dawkins? Would we have wanted K to exclude Standford as a transfer destination or would we line up behind the kids freedom?

[SupaDave]

I agree that it did not happen, I remeber reading that Dawkins helped talk him into not transfering even after he went to Standford.

The point of the question was counterfactual - how would we feel if? Because as you can see from the other responses on this thread, lots of people feel its wrong to limit the kids transfer options. If we truly believe that how would we feel if it happened to us? The Nolan/Dawkins hypo was the most similar to the USC situation that I could come up with. USC is not letting a kid follow the assistant coach who recruited him. How would we feel if Nolan had tried to follow Dawkins? Would we have wanted K to exclude Standford as a transfer destination or would we line up behind the kids freedom?

The Athletic Dept. didn't stop a women's coach from going to UNC, why do you think we would EVER block a student's path?

[CDu]

The Athletic Dept. didn't stop a women's coach from going to UNC, why do you think we would EVER block a student's path?

You're missing the point. The discussion is about how we would feel IF such a situation arose. Obviously it isn't likely that such a situation is going to arise. It's a hypothetical situation, not in any way intended to be a questioning of Duke's practices. No one is suggesting the situation is ever going to arise at Duke. The poster is just asking us to put ourselves in another fanbase's shoes and think about how we'd feel in that situation.

[Jderf]

Here's a question (and I'm asking this not because I have a particular answer in mind, but to get a good feel/understanding for the general reasoning):

If a recruited student decides to attend a particular school to be with a certain coach (or assistant coach) and that coach then leaves or is fired for some reason, why is it so bad for that recruit to then follow the coach? What is the exact problem posed?

[dyedwab]

Danny Mannning, the new Tulsa coach, has restricted Jordan Clarkson from transferring. Clarkson gets to transfer to 3 schools on a list of 8 he submitted.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextr...1_CUTLIN415222

Honestly, this is driving me crazy. Manning, Ryan, Martelli are guys I respect a lot - and have lost a lot of that respect by the way they are treating these guys who want to transfer.