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  1. #361
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by Double DD View Post
    Your memory is pretty faulty in all these cases. You can just look back at the online caches of sites like DraftExpress or NBADraft.net to see. Deng was listed as a top 5 pick in 2004 immediately after the 2003 draft. Irving was projected as a top 10 pick in 2011 at the time he committed and moved up to a top 5 pick after the all star games. Rivers was thought of as a top 10 pick throughout his senior year. He actually hurt his draft stock with his year at Duke.
    This is pretty far off-topic now, but I would like to point that if what you say is true (regarding his changed position on those two sites), then it's certainly due in part to some faulty initial assumptions about the 2012 draft. When Austin was a HS senior, it was widely assumed that players like Barnes, Sullinger, and Perry Jones would have been part of the 2011 draft, not the 2012 draft. By returning, they bumped other people down. It doesn't mean Austin "hurt his draft stock" simply because those assumptions later turned out to be false. If the people behind those sites knew they'd all be back, they likely would have adjusted Austin downward. But they didn't know.

    More importantly, the musings of DraftExpress and NBADraft.net are NOT composed of official NBA scout analyses. They're just a bunch of dudes with an internet connection making guesses based on relative high school rankings and a couple AAU highlight reels.

    Oh, and Rivers is #9 on NBADraft.net right now, so I'm not sure how much he's "hurt" his stock...even using the flawed metric of unofficial rankings sites.

  2. #362
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Columbus OH 614
    According to Adam Zagoria Mike is visiting Syracuse and they could be the leaders for him right now...would be weird to see him playing against Duke

  3. #363
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Durham

    G to Syracuse

    Per Watzone, G to Syracuse.

    Well, it seems soon enough we'll have to play and root against the young man. Alas...

  4. #364
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    So can anyone comment on the fit? Syracuse usually has some lengthy athletics and Mike G would fit. But they already have some good wings with size in Mike Carter Williams and CJ Fair. There's also Jerami Grant coming in who should be solid for Syracuse.

  5. #365
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cali
    Quote Originally Posted by dcar1985 View Post
    According to Adam Zagoria Mike is visiting Syracuse and they could be the leaders for him right now...would be weird to see him playing against Duke
    Why would it be weird, when he barely played for Duke.

    Good Luck Gbinije, see you in 2013.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    This is pretty far off-topic now, but I would like to point that if what you say is true (regarding his changed position on those two sites), then it's certainly due in part to some faulty initial assumptions about the 2012 draft. When Austin was a HS senior, it was widely assumed that players like Barnes, Sullinger, and Perry Jones would have been part of the 2011 draft, not the 2012 draft. By returning, they bumped other people down. It doesn't mean Austin "hurt his draft stock" simply because those assumptions later turned out to be false. If the people behind those sites knew they'd all be back, they likely would have adjusted Austin downward. But they didn't know.

    More importantly, the musings of DraftExpress and NBADraft.net are NOT composed of official NBA scout analyses. They're just a bunch of dudes with an internet connection making guesses based on relative high school rankings and a couple AAU highlight reels.

    Oh, and Rivers is #9 on NBADraft.net right now, so I'm not sure how much he's "hurt" his stock...even using the flawed metric of unofficial rankings sites.
    I don't know about the current writers on NBADraft.net, but the DraftExpress writers certainly aren't making their rankings based on highlight reels as you can see from their detailed in person scouting reports and they still had him ranked him in the top 10 after the early entry deadline in 2011, so he has dropped in their estimation. I didn't look at NBADraft.net for the most recent drafts since they're not as reliable, but it seems they have a different opinion on Rivers, so you're correct that not everyone thinks he hurt his draft stock. As for your larger point, unless you have access to some official NBA scouting reports you'd like to share, their rankings and those of journalists are the best estimation of a player's draft stock, and historically have shown fairly good accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland
    I wasn't able to find any online caches from those site. Perhaps you can provide a link? If what you say is accurate then we are doomed because NBA executives are morons and they should rightly protect themselves from their own stupidity for ever more. The idea that Rivers was more highly though of as a senior at Winter Park than after his All ACC year at Duke cannot be rationally justified.
    Rivers after committing to Duke (ranked 8th)
    http://web.archive.org/web/201010100...ck-draft/2012/

    Irving after committing to Duke (ranked 8th)
    http://web.archive.org/web/200910302...ck-draft/2011/

    Deng in summer of 2003 (ranked 4th)
    http://web.archive.org/web/200307282...nbadraft.net/

  7. #367
    Well at least the world makes sense again. None of those links show where the players would have been projected to go in the draft had they been allowed to come out directly out of HS. They are all projections of where they will go in the draft after they complete their upcoming season at Duke. Which of course means those rankings are useless. For the 2012 draft, NBA teams will not be the least bit concerned where a player was ranked over a year ago. I'd be interested to know where Deng was projected prior to the 2003 draft for that year when LeBron came out not 2004. For Rivers and Irving we don't have any idea where they would have been drafted straight out of HS.

  8. #368
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    south carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by dcar1985 View Post
    According to Adam Zagoria Mike is visiting Syracuse and they could be the leaders for him right now...would be weird to see him playing against Duke
    Are they required to play defense at Syracuse?

  9. #369
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC

    ZONE

    Quote Originally Posted by 60's Devil View Post
    Are they required to play defense at Syracuse?
    Maybe MG will be able to figure out Cuse's zone quicker than he did K's man to man. Let's hope he puts in the work, but not at our expense. GoDuke!

  10. #370
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by Double DD View Post
    their rankings and those of journalists are the best estimation of a player's draft stock, and historically have shown fairly good accuracy.
    Not really. For the 2012 mock draft you linked, they had some pretty big whiffs. Quincy Miller at #1 overall? If the team with the first pick actually selects Quincy Miller in that spot, a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. Patric Young #2? Thomas Robinson #46? Derrick Williams at #24 and Reggie Bullock at #25? Ha! They also had Mouphtaou Yarou, Adonis Thomas, LeBryan Nash, and Jereme Richmond in the lottery. I could go on, but I think you get my point. They basically know which players are eligible and which players are generally better than others, but they're not very accurate that far in advance. The week before the draft, sure, but 1-2 years out? Not so much. The only reason they are arguably the "best" estimation of a player's draft stock 1-2 years before the draft is that they are the ONLY estimation of a player's draft stock 1-2 years before the draft.

    Anyway, back to Gbinije. Syracuse, huh? With the way the ACC schedule has been proposed (three-year rotations of home, away, home-away) that means he's choosing to play against Duke at least 4 times in his 3 remaining years, including twice in Cameron. Most transferring students opt for a clean break, but it seems like he has a little more of a chip on his shoulder than I originally thought. I don't necessarily begrudge him for it; it's just interesting.

  11. #371
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Durham

    A New Nickname?

    Happy that Mike found a new home. I hope he succeeds (and keeps warm!).

    Now on to lighter matters... will they keep his moniker or think up a new one? Perhaps he wants a fresh start. (Does he even know people called him "silent G"?)

    The only thing I could think of was G-'Cuse (GQ), although I'm not sure I like the ring of that one. Any other ideas?

  12. #372
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Triad, NC
    I can't wait to hear what the crazies come up with for his visit back to Cameron. I imagine he is in for it, BIG time.

  13. #373
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Anyway, back to Gbinije. Syracuse, huh? With the way the ACC schedule has been proposed (three-year rotations of home, away, home-away) that means he's choosing to play against Duke at least 4 times in his 3 remaining years, including twice in Cameron. Most transferring students opt for a clean break, but it seems like he has a little more of a chip on his shoulder than I originally thought. I don't necessarily begrudge him for it; it's just interesting.
    I don't think that's a fair assumption at all. Rather than having a "chip on his shoulder," I'd say it's more likely that he wanted to play at a perennial top 10 power, under a Hall of Fame coach, with a decent chance to win championships in a major conference and nationally, at a school where there are real academic opportunities as well. You know, kind of like Duke.

  14. #374
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePublisher View Post
    I can't wait to hear what the crazies come up with for his visit back to Cameron. I imagine he is in for it, BIG time.
    Unless he makes some provocative public statements, I can't imagine the crazies having it in for him.

  15. #375
    I have to admit, I am a little "offended" (too strong a word... maybe hurt?) that he would go to another ACC school... or least, what WILL be an ACC school. Yes, I know, Syracuse is about as different from Duke as possible, but still... not used to seeing former players go against us regularly.

  16. #376
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Manhattan
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Unless he makes some provocative public statements, I can't imagine the crazies having it in for him.
    Yeah, I can't think of any reason why we'd throw him under the bus. No ill will here - Duke isn't for everyone.

    Besides, that's Roy's job.

  17. #377
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rent free in tarheels’ heads
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    I have to admit, I am a little "offended" (too strong a word... maybe hurt?) that he would go to another ACC school... or least, what WILL be an ACC school. Yes, I know, Syracuse is about as different from Duke as possible, but still... not used to seeing former players go against us regularly.
    I thought transfers within conference were not allowed. I know this is a little different but they will be in conference soon enough.

  18. #378
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    I thought transfers within conference were not allowed. I know this is a little different but they will be in conference soon enough.
    It is an odd situation, but apparently because Syracuse will not be in the conference when he transfers, and for the first year he is there, the rule doesn't apply.

    It is an interesting choice, given the close relationship between Coach K and Jim Boeheim. It actually suggests it is really a "no hard feelings" situation all around--not sure Boeheim would be interested in a transfer who expressed resentment or anger towards Duke or K.

  19. #379
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Venice, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    Yeah, I can't think of any reason why we'd throw him under the bus. No ill will here - Duke isn't for everyone.

    Besides, that's Roy's job.
    I can think of several reasons: first of all, by the time he returns to Cameron, half of the crazies will be freshmen and sophomores who have never laid eyes on him and will treat him like every other opponent; secondly, some of the junior and senior crazies will think his nickname refers to his game performance while he was at Duke; and thirdly, most of the remaining crazies will be tempted to compare their three- and four-year loyalty to Duke with his loyalty to Duke. Other than those things, I can't imagine why the crazies wouldn't welcome him back with warm appreciation and love.

  20. #380
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't think that's a fair assumption at all. Rather than having a "chip on his shoulder," I'd say it's more likely that he wanted to play at a perennial top 10 power, under a Hall of Fame coach, with a decent chance to win championships in a major conference and nationally, at a school where there are real academic opportunities as well. You know, kind of like Duke.
    Well, the same could be said for UNC. Now, assuming intra-conference transfers were permitted here, let me ask you something: if he had decided to transfer to Chapel Hill, would you be of the opinion that "oh, it's just because it's a good option with a Hall of Fame coach and good academics that competes nationally every year"...or would you see that as something more? I don't know about you, but I would see that as a big slap in the face.

    Now, Syracuse clearly isn't UNC in terms of Duke's rivals. But it IS going to be a direct ACC competitor, and he's going to be playing multiple times against us, including in Cameron. Maybe the other positives you mention are enough to overcome that aspect. But that's kind of my point--that he doesn't really care all that much about that aspect, that he doesn't mind all that much about lining up against his former teammates on a regular basis. That's fine if he feels he has something to prove, which is what I should have said rather than "chip on the shoulder" (because I did not mean to suggest he has a grudge, per se). And, to be honest, he SHOULD feel like he has something to prove if he was unhappy being buried on our depth chart. Again, I just found the choice interesting, given that it's a de facto conference rival going forward. I hope he's happy there, but given that we will be competing with Syracuse year-in and year-out for the top of the ACC standings, I won't be "pulling" for him any more than I'll be pulling for someone from NC State or BC or Clemson.

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