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  1. #321
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    Mar 2012
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    Cali
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I'd take Gbinije over Shabazz any day. IF Shabazz had chosen Duke, that means they both would have only played for us for one year. But unlike Muhammad, at least Michael didn't come in with those intentions. I'll take character over talent any day of the week. Not saying that Shabazz lacks character, he may be a great guy.. but I have no interest in following a guy who comes in with the intent of only being in school for one year.
    I will take Shabazz over Gbinije any day. Even if he is a 1 and done player, because he can physically dominate his position.

    But really, Duke needs a mix of players like Shabazz (Studs from day 1) and Gbinije (3-4 years guys that can develop into Studs).
    Too bad we missed on Shabazz and too bad Gbinije wasnt willing to wait his turn.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I'd take Gbinije over Shabazz any day. IF Shabazz had chosen Duke, that means they both would have only played for us for one year. But unlike Muhammad, at least Michael didn't come in with those intentions. I'll take character over talent any day of the week. Not saying that Shabazz lacks character, he may be a great guy.. but I have no interest in following a guy who comes in with the intent of only being in school for one year.
    how do you define "character"? one could easily argue that coming in with the clear intent of playing for one year, and doing so, speaks to a stronger sense of character than does coming in with the intent of being here for 3-4 years, and then bailing after one.

  3. #323
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    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by fgb View Post
    how do you define "character"? one could easily argue that coming in with the clear intent of playing for one year, and doing so, speaks to a stronger sense of character than does coming in with the intent of being here for 3-4 years, and then bailing after one.
    That was bad wording on my part (which is why I added "not saying he lacks character", but I couldn't find the correct terminology..should have left it out entirely). But I have lots of problems getting behind a guy that comes in for one year that everyone assumes will be the answer for all our problems. Austin was a great example...and AR did indeed say he only wanted to play one year. And at the end of his season, nobody can say he was the answer. Not knocking Austin, either, but we've had two one and dones now and two early exits. Three years ago we had a team full of seniors and a banner hanging from the roof. The results speak for themselves. Gbinije came in with the intention of being at Duke for a while, that is the basis of my point and why I'd take him over Shabazz or any other (projected) one and done in an instant. MG will move on and make some school very happy that he chose them. UCLA fans will most likely not remember much about Shabazz in ten years, but I bet in a decade the fans of the school that MG picks will have lots of memories with stories to back it up.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by fgb View Post
    how do you define "character"? one could easily argue that coming in with the clear intent of playing for one year, and doing so, speaks to a stronger sense of character than does coming in with the intent of being here for 3-4 years, and then bailing after one.
    I don't see it as a matter of character either way but Shabazz seems to be a known NBA ready talent who will be just biding his time in college for one year because of the NBA restriction. I didn't get the feeling that either Irving or Rivers were thought of in that regard before they proved themselves first at the college level. I'm not sure even Anthony Davis or Nerlens Noel was ever thought to be as close to a "sure thing" coming out of HS as Bazz is. So while he may have been a good student and great citizen at Duke for one year I really didn't want him. I would rather have a player like Mike for 3-4 years over Bazz regardless of how good a player he is.

    As far as Silent G transferring it makes me scratch my head to think Duke is hustling to pick up a transfer like Hood or Smith or even to sign Jefferson with the hope that he may play minutes at the 3 next year when Mike is transferring primarily to get an opportunity to play more. If Dre red-shirts this year then Mike almost certainly gets significant playing time next year at Duke. If he was a little indecisive about transferring initially, then he really has reason to pause before sitting out a year at another school now. I'll wish him the best if he leaves but I hope he'll consider staying at Duke.

  5. #325
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    Dec 2009
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I'll wish him the best if he leaves but I hope he'll consider staying at Duke.
    I see this idea (that Gbinije might change his mind and stay at Duke) being floated around throughout the thread, but is there any foundation to that notion? I haven't seen anything reported in the news that would seem to back it up, except for the fact that the situation has been awfully quiet since the announcement, and on the surface it seems to be a pretty outlandish idea. Is there any precedent for players publicly announcing a transfer and then ultimately deciding to remain at their original school? Could be, but I've never heard of it.

    If it is a legitimate option -- and I really have no idea if it is or not -- then it will be the option I'm pulling for. I'd love nothing more than to see Gbinije in royal blue again next year.

  6. #326
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    Jul 2008
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    Rent free in tarheels’ heads
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    That was bad wording on my part (which is why I added "not saying he lacks character", but I couldn't find the correct terminology..should have left it out entirely). But I have lots of problems getting behind a guy that comes in for one year that everyone assumes will be the answer for all our problems. Austin was a great example...and AR did indeed say he only wanted to play one year. And at the end of his season, nobody can say he was the answer. Not knocking Austin, either, but we've had two one and dones now and two early exits. Three years ago we had a team full of seniors and a banner hanging from the roof. The results speak for themselves. Gbinije came in with the intention of being at Duke for a while, that is the basis of my point and why I'd take him over Shabazz or any other (projected) one and done in an instant. MG will move on and make some school very happy that he chose them. UCLA fans will most likely not remember much about Shabazz in ten years, but I bet in a decade the fans of the school that MG picks will have lots of memories with stories to back it up.
    There is the question of how much everyone assumes a single one-year guy is going to make a difference. But I agree with you that the results speak for themselves. If you look back at recent history -- let's go back to 2000 since the whole one-and-done thing has reached a fever pitch in the last decade or so -- you could easily argue there's only one team where a single one-and-done guy came in and made the difference that led to a championship... Melo at Syracuse in 2003. Maybe we can point to other instances where a one-and-done guy helped put an already talented team over the edge and win a championship. I can't come up with one. Many would agree that Kyrie had the talent. But there was of course already an outstanding level of talent on the team. (Notice I am not talking about this year's *cough* champion since they had so many one-and-doners come in together.) I guess my point is, it's a very unreasonable expectation to think that a single one-and-done kid can come in and make enough of a difference by himself to lead a team to a championship. It requires a VERY solid base of existing talent in the first place. And then they become another piece of a very strong TEAM. If a kid comes in, does his thing for a year and then leaves, it doesn't seem like the healthiest way to manage the long term success for a program. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to bring in one-and-done guys if they can fit into a great team concept. But it's silly to think any school can rely on a single one-and-done guy to make much of a lasting positive impact on a program.

  7. #327
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    Feb 2010
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    Columbus OH 614
    I know it's been reported that Mike plans on transferring but is that just his intentions as of now...has he been given an official release from Duke?!? Guessing if he hasn't he could still change his mind...seen nothing to say he's even considering though

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by dcar1985 View Post
    I know it's been reported that Mike plans on transferring but is that just his intentions as of now...has he been given an official release from Duke?!? Guessing if he hasn't he could still change his mind...seen nothing to say he's even considering though
    I don't know the answer but it seems to me that it doesn't hurt to let Silent G know that the Duke family wants him to stay. Maybe he just needs a little nudge to rethink his decision. Cmon back Mike!

  9. #329
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    Feb 2009
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    Washington, DC

    Luol Deng, Grant Hill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    There is the question of how much everyone assumes a single one-year guy is going to make a difference. But I agree with you that the results speak for themselves. If you look back at recent history -- let's go back to 2000 since the whole one-and-done thing has reached a fever pitch in the last decade or so -- you could easily argue there's only one team where a single one-and-done guy came in and made the difference that led to a championship... Melo at Syracuse in 2003. Maybe we can point to other instances where a one-and-done guy helped put an already talented team over the edge and win a championship. I can't come up with one. Many would agree that Kyrie had the talent. But there was of course already an outstanding level of talent on the team. (Notice I am not talking about this year's *cough* champion since they had so many one-and-doners come in together.) I guess my point is, it's a very unreasonable expectation to think that a single one-and-done kid can come in and make enough of a difference by himself to lead a team to a championship. It requires a VERY solid base of existing talent in the first place. And then they become another piece of a very strong TEAM. If a kid comes in, does his thing for a year and then leaves, it doesn't seem like the healthiest way to manage the long term success for a program. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to bring in one-and-done guys if they can fit into a great team concept. But it's silly to think any school can rely on a single one-and-done guy to make much of a lasting positive impact on a program.

    I agree with some of what you are saying here, and the Duke examples I would offer are ones that fit your concept that a single great one-and-done player needs to join an existing core of excellent players to really move the needle (depending, I suppose, on the player and the overall level of NCAA talent in a particular season--which is a different topic, but a point that very much matters year-to-year. One could argue that overall college talent was at a temporary ebb when Carmelo put the 2003 Orange on his back and won it all).

    But there is no doubt that the very good chance we had to win it all in 2004 was delivered by the addition of Luol Deng to a lineup that without him was more like the Sweet Sixteen teams of 2005 and 2006. And there is also no doubt that Grant Hill (obviously not a one-and-done player, but might have been in today's NCAA climate) pushed Duke over the top in 1991.

    That is why you go after guys like Kyrie, who if healthy over the course of season and fully integrated into the team, could have made up for losing Scheyer/Thomas/Zoubek and helped what otherwise proved to be a Sweet Sixteen core to a Final Four.

    It's why you go after Shabazz, to team with mainstays like Mason and Kelly and Curry who might all play at the next level but are unlikely to make an NBA all-star roster.

    It's romantic to imagine that Duke will put together high-but-not-quite-elite-level talent over a period of years and win experience-earned titles like in 2010. And that may happen again --who knows-- could happen next year! But the better likelihood of success is to target some transcendent talents to mix in. Coach K has always tried to do that-- it's just that they used to stick around (see Grant Hill).

    Different world now.

  10. #330
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    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by Monmouth77 View Post
    But there is no doubt that the very good chance we had to win it all in 2004 was delivered by the addition of Luol Deng to a lineup that without him was more like the Sweet Sixteen teams of 2005 and 2006.
    I was thinking about Deng as I drove down the road after writing my last post. He personifies for me what it means to come in as a one and done. He might be a great guy, and certainly had good reasons for leaving early, but I cannot remember a thing about him actually playing for Duke. Same with Maggette. And I've been following Duke basketball ever since I was a toddler (thus my moniker).
    But ask me about watching Kenny Dennard, Gene Banks, Mike Gminski...names from long ago, and I can recall their faces with their names and remember watching some of their memorable plays. Hell, I can even put faces to guys who didn't go on to become stars that were even older...Terry Chili, Tate Armstrong...and guys who were role players on K's early teams like Phil Henderson, Weldon Williams, Todd Anderson.

    But for the life of me I can't remember watching Deng and Maggette, yet I know I did. Ask me in 10 years about Kyrie, and amazing as he was, I probably won't remember him much either, nor Austin.
    Some school will remember Michael Gbinije. Guaranteed. It's not about the wins for me, it's about the people.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I was thinking about Deng as I drove down the road after writing my last post. He personifies for me what it means to come in as a one and done. He might be a great guy, and certainly had good reasons for leaving early, but I cannot remember a thing about him actually playing for Duke. Same with Maggette. And I've been following Duke basketball ever since I was a toddler (thus my moniker).
    But ask me about watching Kenny Dennard, Gene Banks, Mike Gminski...names from long ago, and I can recall their faces with their names and remember watching some of their memorable plays. Hell, I can even put faces to guys who didn't go on to become stars that were even older...Terry Chili, Tate Armstrong...and guys who were role players on K's early teams like Phil Henderson, Weldon Williams, Todd Anderson.

    But for the life of me I can't remember watching Deng and Maggette, yet I know I did. Ask me in 10 years about Kyrie, and amazing as he was, I probably won't remember him much either, nor Austin.
    Some school will remember Michael Gbinije. Guaranteed. It's not about the wins for me, it's about the people.
    I agree with your post. Isn't it amazing how being about the people leads to the relationships?

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I was thinking about Deng... He might be a great guy, and certainly had good reasons for leaving early, but I cannot remember a thing about him actually playing for Duke.

    But ask me about watching Kenny Dennard, Gene Banks, Mike Gminski... and guys who were role players on K's early teams like Phil Henderson, Weldon Williams, Todd Anderson.

    Some school will remember Michael Gbinije. Guaranteed. It's not about the wins for me, it's about the people.
    I agree with the overall sentiment you express here. I remember Deng well enough, but he's not been gone that long.

    Minor quibble: I would not describe Phil Henderson as a role player.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I was thinking about Deng as I drove down the road after writing my last post. He personifies for me what it means to come in as a one and done. He might be a great guy, and certainly had good reasons for leaving early, but I cannot remember a thing about him actually playing for Duke. Same with Maggette. And I've been following Duke basketball ever since I was a toddler (thus my moniker).
    But ask me about watching Kenny Dennard, Gene Banks, Mike Gminski...names from long ago, and I can recall their faces with their names and remember watching some of their memorable plays. Hell, I can even put faces to guys who didn't go on to become stars that were even older...Terry Chili, Tate Armstrong...and guys who were role players on K's early teams like Phil Henderson, Weldon Williams, Todd Anderson.

    But for the life of me I can't remember watching Deng and Maggette, yet I know I did. Ask me in 10 years about Kyrie, and amazing as he was, I probably won't remember him much either, nor Austin.
    Some school will remember Michael Gbinije. Guaranteed. It's not about the wins for me, it's about the people.
    You don't remember Luol Deng getting emotional in the locker room at halftime and breaking out for 25 points to lead Duke over UNC in Cameron? We wouldn't have won without him. You don't remember Maggette skying over (seemingly) Temple's entire team for a put back jam in the 1999 Elite 8 as Duke stomped to the Final Four (it's first in the era since K returned from his 1995 hiatus)? It's been a while now, but these were big moments in really big games. You really don't think you'll remember Austin? Not even his buzzer beater to slay UNC in front of a devastated Dean Dome? Consider me completely incredulous. These players make their legacies in whatever time they have. It's a shame that Kyrie didn't get a chance to leave an impact in big games, but you can't erase other players from big Duke moments just because they weren't around to create them in multiple years.

  14. #334
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    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I was thinking about Deng as I drove down the road after writing my last post. He personifies for me what it means to come in as a one and done. He might be a great guy, and certainly had good reasons for leaving early, but I cannot remember a thing about him actually playing for Duke. Same with Maggette. And I've been following Duke basketball ever since I was a toddler (thus my moniker).
    But ask me about watching Kenny Dennard, Gene Banks, Mike Gminski...names from long ago, and I can recall their faces with their names and remember watching some of their memorable plays. Hell, I can even put faces to guys who didn't go on to become stars that were even older...Terry Chili, Tate Armstrong...and guys who were role players on K's early teams like Phil Henderson, Weldon Williams, Todd Anderson.

    But for the life of me I can't remember watching Deng and Maggette, yet I know I did. Ask me in 10 years about Kyrie, and amazing as he was, I probably won't remember him much either, nor Austin.
    Some school will remember Michael Gbinije. Guaranteed. It's not about the wins for me, it's about the people.
    I'm sorry that you don't remember Deng and Maggette. I remember Deng's Carrawell-like dribbling ability but tremendous length and athleticism at the PF spot, and his ability to drive the baseline. I remember him carrying us to a win over UNC on Duhon's senior night. And I remember being very frustrated that Coach K refused to go with Deng against Okafor, even for just a few minutes, to help keep our 3 big guys from fouling out. I remember Maggette's ridiculous hops, dunking over teams left and right. I remember the game in Cameron against Florida where he had a vicious dunk, got T'd up for doing a chinup and slapping the glass. And then, a few minutes later, he did the exact same thing, and the official blew the whistle (lost in the frenzied crowd noise) but Coach K talked him out of giving the second technical. I remember thinking how awesome he'd have been on the 1999-2000 team, and being sad that he was gone.

    I have no problem with Deng. He was a guy who LOVED Duke and planned to stay for 3 years to get his degree like JWill. But his draft stock soared, and he had a TON of family pressure to strike while the iron was hot. So he went pro. It was a surprise, but it was completely understandable. But there was never a doubt in my mind that he was fully invested in the Duke way.

    I guess I just see things differently than you. I remember things about each season. Last year, it was Irving's smoothness in getting to the basket - cradling the ball like a RB and launching toward the basket, scooping the ball up off the glass at the last moment. I'll remember Singler's defensive toughness, taking on Barnes and any other tall wing player and meeting the challenge. I'll remember Smith stepping up after the Irving injury and becoming a star. In 2009, I'll remember Henderson's dunks in Maryland. I'll remember Elliot Williams taking over for Paulus at guard and Scheyer taking over the PG duties, and seeing the flashes of brilliance from Williams late in the season. This past year, I'll remember the shot. I'll remember Mason's post move, repeated so often. I'll remember Miles stepping up late in the year. I'll remember Austin's crazy-good moves and ability to hit tough shots, and I'll remember my frustration that he couldn't consistently make good decisions and had only one real play in his playbook (the iso).

    My memories of all of the Duke guys are based on what they did while they were there - not how long they were there. I'll have trouble remembering a guy like Gbinije and Michael Thompson, but I'll have no trouble remembering Elliot Williams, Olek Czyz, Irving, Maggette, Deng, and Rivers.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    ... Ask me in 10 years about Kyrie, and amazing as he was, I probably won't remember him much either, nor Austin.
    Some school will remember Michael Gbinije. Guaranteed.
    The day I forget Austin's shot against UNC is the day my box goes into the ground.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I'm sorry that you don't remember Deng and Maggette. I remember Deng's Carrawell-like dribbling ability but tremendous length and athleticism at the PF spot, and his ability to drive the baseline. I remember him carrying us to a win over UNC on Duhon's senior night. And I remember being very frustrated that Coach K refused to go with Deng against Okafor, even for just a few minutes, to help keep our 3 big guys from fouling out. I remember Maggette's ridiculous hops, dunking over teams left and right. I remember the game in Cameron against Florida where he had a vicious dunk, got T'd up for doing a chinup and slapping the glass. And then, a few minutes later, he did the exact same thing, and the official blew the whistle (lost in the frenzied crowd noise) but Coach K talked him out of giving the second technical. I remember thinking how awesome he'd have been on the 1999-2000 team, and being sad that he was gone.

    I have no problem with Deng. He was a guy who LOVED Duke and planned to stay for 3 years to get his degree like JWill. But his draft stock soared, and he had a TON of family pressure to strike while the iron was hot. So he went pro. It was a surprise, but it was completely understandable. But there was never a doubt in my mind that he was fully invested in the Duke way.

    I guess I just see things differently than you. I remember things about each season. Last year, it was Irving's smoothness in getting to the basket - cradling the ball like a RB and launching toward the basket, scooping the ball up off the glass at the last moment. I'll remember Singler's defensive toughness, taking on Barnes and any other tall wing player and meeting the challenge. I'll remember Smith stepping up after the Irving injury and becoming a star. In 2009, I'll remember Henderson's dunks in Maryland. I'll remember Elliot Williams taking over for Paulus at guard and Scheyer taking over the PG duties, and seeing the flashes of brilliance from Williams late in the season. This past year, I'll remember the shot. I'll remember Mason's post move, repeated so often. I'll remember Miles stepping up late in the year. I'll remember Austin's crazy-good moves and ability to hit tough shots, and I'll remember my frustration that he couldn't consistently make good decisions and had only one real play in his playbook (the iso).

    My memories of all of the Duke guys are based on what they did while they were there - not how long they were there. I'll have trouble remembering a guy like Gbinije and Michael Thompson, but I'll have no trouble remembering Elliot Williams, Olek Czyz, Irving, Maggette, Deng, and Rivers.
    Yeah but there is nothing more emotional to me than watching a senior come off the floor on senior night at Cameron or even when their season ends even though most of the time it's a sad moment. Seeing guys get emotional when their time ends lets you know how much it meant to them. I'll never forget when Carrawell came of the floor when Duke lost in the tournament. I have a feeling that Bazz will be thinking about draft night when his season ends next year. Maybe his tallent would push Duke over the edge for another Championship but Maybe relying on SG and Murphy will pay dividends later on. I think K said it best as far as going after guys who aren't really interested in unpacking their bags and of course I trust him to make those calls but I can't help but think that Bazz was never coming to Duke and recruiting him was a waste of effort. I think a senior Gbinije could be a better college player than Bazz as a freshman the same way senior Nolan was better than freshman AR.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Yeah but there is nothing more emotional to me than watching a senior come off the floor on senior night at Cameron or even when their season ends even though most of the time it's a sad moment. Seeing guys get emotional when their time ends lets you know how much it meant to them. I'll never forget when Carrawell came of the floor when Duke lost in the tournament. I have a feeling that Bazz will be thinking about draft night when his season ends next year. Maybe his tallent would push Duke over the edge for another Championship but Maybe relying on SG and Murphy will pay dividends later on. I think K said it best as far as going after guys who aren't really interested in unpacking their bags and of course I trust him to make those calls but I can't help but think that Bazz was never coming to Duke and recruiting him was a waste of effort. I think a senior Gbinije could be a better college player than Bazz as a freshman the same way senior Nolan was better than freshman AR.
    Sure, it's always nicer when guys stay for four years. But it's a rare occurrence in this day and age when a superstar stays for more than a year or two. The guys who stay for 4 years are guys who weren't stars as freshmen and sophomores.

    I think Coach K is completely okay with one-and-dones so long those one-and-dones are completely invested in the team and program during that one year. Irving was that. Deng was that (though he wasn't a typical one-and-done). Not sure whether Rivers was that, but I have no reason to believe that he wasn't.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I agree with your post. Isn't it amazing how being about the people leads to the relationships?
    I guess I don't see relationships and winning as mutually exclusive concepts, nor do I really see the modus operandi of seriously recruiting 1 "one-and-done" type player per recruiting class as a philosophy that detracts much from the overall family atmosphere of Coach-K era Duke Basketball.

    I also don't think most folks -- even very sentimental, lifelong Duke fans and alums, myself included -- are drawn to Duke basketball solely because of "the people." It's obviously the winning too.

    I don't disagree that you can make a distinction between Luol Deng and Chris Duhon, and as a fan/alum have more compelling memories of Chris (especially since he was involved in so much great basketball and was a nice leader by his senior year). What I am saying is, we needed Luol in 2004 to make a title run. I don't think that diminishes Chris or JJ or Shelden, and actually their Final Four trip, made possible by Luol, is one of the enduring memories I have of JJ's and Shelden's Duke career.

    For my part, I definitely remember Luol. Excellent rebounder and shotblocker, could defend the college 3-5, scored on all kinds of putbacks, tips, etc., played with touch around the rim, could get up and down the floor on the break, and could hit a jumper or two. The guy was a great player for us, and I am glad he wore Duke Blue.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Sure, it's always nicer when guys stay for four years. But it's a rare occurrence in this day and age when a superstar stays for more than a year or two. The guys who stay for 4 years are guys who weren't stars as freshmen and sophomores.

    I think Coach K is completely okay with one-and-dones so long those one-and-dones are completely invested in the team and program during that one year. Irving was that. Deng was that (though he wasn't a typical one-and-done). Not sure whether Rivers was that, but I have no reason to believe that he wasn't.
    I think Rivers probably had his eye on the NBA but as Doc's son I don't think he is as susceptible to the influence of "handlers" as much as John Wall and Bazz. I also think it is reasonable that he actually will obtain his degree from Duke while playing in the NBA. I think AR was coachable and "all in" for this past season even though he probably hoped and felt he was one and done all along. When players start following their HS or AAU coaches or shoe companies then I get nervous and would rather Duke just stay away and concentrate on developing student athletes.

    My rule of thumb is that if a player would likely be a lottery pick coming out of HS then he's probably not a good recruit for Duke. I don't think that was true of Kyrie, Austin or Deng but it is probably is true for Bazz. So I'm glad Bazz didn't come to Duke but I'll hate to see Mike in another uniform.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I think Rivers probably had his eye on the NBA but as Doc's son I don't think he is as susceptible to the influence of "handlers" as much as John Wall and Bazz. I also think it is reasonable that he actually will obtain his degree from Duke while playing in the NBA. I think AR was coachable and "all in" for this past season even though he probably hoped and felt he was one and done all along. When players start following their HS or AAU coaches or shoe companies then I get nervous and would rather Duke just stay away and concentrate on developing student athletes.

    My rule of thumb is that if a player would likely be a lottery pick coming out of HS then he's probably not a good recruit for Duke. I don't think that was true of Kyrie, Austin or Deng but it is probably is true for Bazz. So I'm glad Bazz didn't come to Duke but I'll hate to see Mike in another uniform.
    I think there is a good chance Kyrie Irving would have been a lottery pick coming out of high school. He was the #1 overall pick after playing only a small handful of college games.

    I do hear your point about following AAU coaches. But if a guy is doing that, he's not coming to Duke.

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