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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Not really. For the 2012 mock draft you linked, they had some pretty big whiffs. Quincy Miller at #1 overall? If the team with the first pick actually selects Quincy Miller in that spot, a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. Patric Young #2? Thomas Robinson #46? Derrick Williams at #24 and Reggie Bullock at #25? Ha! They also had Mouphtaou Yarou, Adonis Thomas, LeBryan Nash, and Jereme Richmond in the lottery. I could go on, but I think you get my point. They basically know which players are eligible and which players are generally better than others, but they're not very accurate that far in advance. The week before the draft, sure, but 1-2 years out? Not so much. The only reason they are arguably the "best" estimation of a player's draft stock 1-2 years before the draft is that they are the ONLY estimation of a player's draft stock 1-2 years before the draft.
    Of course, NBA draft stocks are set in stone years prior to the draft. Players don't get better or worse relative to their peers. I'm sure those NBA scouts we don't have access to had Thomas Robinson and Derrick Williams as top 5 picks 18 months before the draft as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland
    Well at least the world makes sense again. None of those links show where the players would have been projected to go in the draft had they been allowed to come out directly out of HS. They are all projections of where they will go in the draft after they complete their upcoming season at Duke. Which of course means those rankings are useless. For the 2012 draft, NBA teams will not be the least bit concerned where a player was ranked over a year ago. I'd be interested to know where Deng was projected prior to the 2003 draft for that year when LeBron came out not 2004. For Rivers and Irving we don't have any idea where they would have been drafted straight out of HS.
    Those projections will still made without any knowledge of what they actually did in college. I guess the issue here is that you're assuming that playing in college would automatically boost a player's stock. This certainly might be true in some cases, but I'm not sure if these draft sites would use that same reasoning, or you can actually tell if NBA teams thought that same way. I'm not sure if the sample size comparing high school 1st rounders vs one and dones would be big enough even if you tried to look at it.

  2. #382

    Puzzled: Better Opportunity at Syracuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't think that's a fair assumption at all. Rather than having a "chip on his shoulder," I'd say it's more likely that he wanted to play at a perennial top 10 power, under a Hall of Fame coach, with a decent chance to win championships in a major conference and nationally, at a school where there are real academic opportunities as well. You know, kind of like Duke.
    That makes a lot of sense to me. For Michael, it's probably not about settling any scores with Duke, or focusing on the "ethics" of playing against Duke, it's about him -- where he believes he can maximize his potential -- athletically and academically.

    What intrigues me about this transfer is about basketball: Michael's going to a top basketball school with a big bench, where he he has to wait a year to play and then faces competing with Jeremi Grant at SF, among others. Doesn't seem like he would have a lock to play more. And, yes, Syracuse plays zone, but they play a rather excellent, active and sophisticated version of zone. Boeheim surely has studied tape and has likely talked with Coach K about Gbinije's abilities, potential and attitude. Coach K and Boeheim are friends and colleagues after all.

    I am fully aware that to understand this transfer, we need inside information, which I don't have. What made this transfer desirable for Michael? And I'm giving everyone, deservedly, the benefit of any doubt. Not looking for conspiracies or deficiencies. I'm just very curious -- wish I knew. Anyone know? Thanks!!

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Double DD View Post
    Of course, NBA draft stocks are set in stone years prior to the draft. Players don't get better or worse relative to their peers. I'm sure those NBA scouts we don't have access to had Thomas Robinson and Derrick Williams as top 5 picks 18 months before the draft as well.



    Those projections will still made without any knowledge of what they actually did in college. I guess the issue here is that you're assuming that playing in college would automatically boost a player's stock. This certainly might be true in some cases, but I'm not sure if these draft sites would use that same reasoning, or you can actually tell if NBA teams thought that same way. I'm not sure if the sample size comparing high school 1st rounders vs one and dones would be big enough even if you tried to look at it.
    I'm saying I don't think Austin would have been drafted last year nearly as high as this year after showing what he could do against ACC comp. I'm also saying that nba scouts don't care how high players were ranked last year so the rankings are useless.

    I would be interested to know where Deng was ranked in 2003 for that years draft since he actually could have gone out like LeBron did. Can you post that link?

  4. #384
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    It is an odd situation, but apparently because Syracuse will not be in the conference when he transfers, and for the first year he is there, the rule doesn't apply.

    It is an interesting choice, given the close relationship between Coach K and Jim Boeheim. It actually suggests it is really a "no hard feelings" situation all around--not sure Boeheim would be interested in a transfer who expressed resentment or anger towards Duke or K.
    Coach K helped Gbinije with deciding on his new school.

  5. #385
    Gbinije's old AAU coach, Adrian Autry, is now an assistant coach at Syracuse.

    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...yracuse-orange

    This transfer really rubs me the wrong way. I'm sure that K gave G the go ahead to pursue Syracuse if that's where he was thinking, but I have a suspicion that this coach likely had a lot to do with it, whether it be from a "hey, I know you, you're going to play, I promise" situation or just from a comfort level. This would look fishy if G were going there with Autry straight out of high school, and I'm not really fond of it right now.

    I hold no animosity towards Mike, I hope he's happy at Cuse, but I also didn't really have any strong positive feelings toward him as a Dukie, but after this, I find myself feeling absolutely nothing for the kid, 100% neutral.

    This transfer, because of the fact that its going to be in-conference and that his old coach works there now, really irks me.

  6. #386
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    Asheville

    Possible answer to the situation with Michael?

    Has anyone even thought about the possibility that Michael's main problem considering playing time for Duke was maybe that he had a lot of trouble learning the man-to-man system, and that the reason he transferred to Syracuse is that they play zone? My thoughts on his lack of playing time have been centered around K's traditional attitude of having his players earn it through their defensive skills. I thought he did very well offensively for the short periods he was in there, considering that he was not a starting freshman. Comments?

    ricks

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post
    Coach K helped Gbinije with deciding on his new school.
    ......and K and Boeheim are tight.
    -BDBD

  8. #388
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    Another case of how AAU ball runs amateur basketball. AAU coaches getting hired as assistants just so that school can land recruits. Lots of people out there going after these kids with personal agendas. No bueno.

    Best of luck to Mike though, my comment is not meant in malice toward him. Just a thought

  9. #389
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    Gbinije's old AAU coach, Adrian Autry, is now an assistant coach at Syracuse.

    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...yracuse-orange

    This transfer really rubs me the wrong way. I'm sure that K gave G the go ahead to pursue Syracuse if that's where he was thinking, but I have a suspicion that this coach likely had a lot to do with it, whether it be from a "hey, I know you, you're going to play, I promise" situation or just from a comfort level. This would look fishy if G were going there with Autry straight out of high school, and I'm not really fond of it right now.

    I hold no animosity towards Mike, I hope he's happy at Cuse, but I also didn't really have any strong positive feelings toward him as a Dukie, but after this, I find myself feeling absolutely nothing for the kid, 100% neutral.

    This transfer, because of the fact that its going to be in-conference and that his old coach works there now, really irks me.
    Nothing fishy about Autry being at Syracuse... he played there in the early 90's for Boeheim. His pro career (in Europe) ended in '05 and he got into coaching. He coached an AAU and high school in Northern VA some, then fulfilled a dream of returning to his alma mater to coach. I am sure Mike's familiarity with him helped in Mike's choice, but hard to see where this is a problem. (link below)

    http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebaske...s_a_dream.html

    It has been posted that Coach K helped Mike with finding a school to transfer to, and I'm sure K's close friendship with Boeheim was a factor. However, I would also think that, if K knows what Mike wants/needs (and I am sure he does), the familiarity with an assistant is something K would think of as helpful to Mike. There are also a couple players at Syracuse that Mike already knows. I am certain all these things factored into the choice and that K, Mike, & his parents all recognized them when considering the options available. It sounds like a good fit for him, and knowing how invested in the person K always is, K would want Mike to be comfortable and happy. He would want what was best for Mike.

    As to, as someone posted, the Crazies giving Mike a hard time... I can't see Coach K standing for it. He has asked the students to leave alone an opposing player before, so I doubt he'd hesitate to do the same for Mike.

    Best of luck to you, Mike. We will miss having you here, and we wish you much success.
    -BuschDevil

    "...Man, who even now finds scarce breathing room on this vast globe, cannot retire from the Old World to some yet undiscovered continent, and wait for the slow action of such causes to replace, by a new creation, the Eden he has wasted".
    -George Perkins Marsh (1864)

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve68 View Post
    I can think of several reasons: first of all, by the time he returns to Cameron, half of the crazies will be freshmen and sophomores who have never laid eyes on him and will treat him like every other opponent; secondly, some of the junior and senior crazies will think his nickname refers to his game performance while he was at Duke; and thirdly, most of the remaining crazies will be tempted to compare their three- and four-year loyalty to Duke with his loyalty to Duke. Other than those things, I can't imagine why the crazies wouldn't welcome him back with warm appreciation and love.
    Before the game, we'll probably chant for him, say hello and exchange pleasantries. But once the game starts, he's just another opponent wearing a non-Duke jersey and we'll give him hell for 40 minutes just like everyone else.

    Has there every been a Duke transfer who's come back and played against Duke in Cameron? Or any transfer in general who's played on their old home turf?
    Pratt '14
    I was in Tent #1 all 4 years.

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    Has anyone even thought about the possibility that Michael's main problem considering playing time for Duke was maybe that he had a lot of trouble learning the man-to-man system, and that the reason he transferred to Syracuse is that they play zone? My thoughts on his lack of playing time have been centered around K's traditional attitude of having his players earn it through their defensive skills. I thought he did very well offensively for the short periods he was in there, considering that he was not a starting freshman. Comments?

    ricks
    I wondered the same thing actually. It's possible I guess. Like others have noted, Duke's m2m system is very complex and requires a ton of communication. That is why the quiet kids sometimes struggle.

    I wish him well. It will be awkward pulling against him once Syracuse come into the ACC, but I have no issue with G going there. Unlike other coaches, K did not put any restrictions on his transfer, so he was free to go to any school.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I wish him well. It will be awkward pulling against him once Syracuse come into the ACC, but I have no issue with G going there. Unlike other coaches, K did not put any restrictions on his transfer, so he was free to go to any school.
    I too don't mind his transferring within the conference. There are a bunch of guys within the conference that I appreciate and even like but that I root against solely when Duke is playing them. A couple of the FSU guys from this year come to mind among others. We also didn't get to know Mike very well, so there will be less emotion (at least for me) involved when seeing "one of our own" in a different uniform. I do wonder though whether Mike will be able to capitalize on his athleticism and fulfill the grand expectations many had for him during his upperclassman years. In my view, as long as he turns out happy, realizes his full capabilities, and doesn't cause our team too much harm too often, I'll be happy.

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    Has anyone even thought about the possibility that Michael's main problem considering playing time for Duke was maybe that he had a lot of trouble learning the man-to-man system, and that the reason he transferred to Syracuse is that they play zone? My thoughts on his lack of playing time have been centered around K's traditional attitude of having his players earn it through their defensive skills. I thought he did very well offensively for the short periods he was in there, considering that he was not a starting freshman. Comments?

    ricks
    That is an interesting perspective and one I hadn't thought of but you make a great point. But just to play Devils advocate (no pun intended, okay mayb just a little) I wonder if Mike sees himself as a guy capable of going to the NBA. Most NBA teams play man to man so by that thought process it might not have been a great idea to transfer away from a program with the best coach to teach you that. But who really knows but Mike, K and company. I wish him well though, even though I'll pull against him anytime he plays Duke. Utlimately he made the decision he thought was best for him.

  14. #394
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    It was reported on local news here this morning (WTVD 11) that Mike's AAU coach is on the Syracuse staff, and that Mike said that factored into his choice as he has a comfort level there. They did not say the name of the coach, so not sure who it is.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    It was reported on local news here this morning (WTVD 11) that Mike's AAU coach is on the Syracuse staff, and that Mike said that factored into his choice as he has a comfort level there. They did not say the name of the coach, so not sure who it is.
    Here ya' go...

    Quote Originally Posted by BuschDevil View Post
    Nothing fishy about Autry being at Syracuse... he played there in the early 90's for Boeheim. His pro career (in Europe) ended in '05 and he got into coaching. He coached an AAU and high school in Northern VA some, then fulfilled a dream of returning to his alma mater to coach. I am sure Mike's familiarity with him helped in Mike's choice, but hard to see where this is a problem. (link below)

    http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebaske...s_a_dream.html
    Last edited by BuschDevil; 04-29-2012 at 03:08 PM. Reason: typo
    -BuschDevil

    "...Man, who even now finds scarce breathing room on this vast globe, cannot retire from the Old World to some yet undiscovered continent, and wait for the slow action of such causes to replace, by a new creation, the Eden he has wasted".
    -George Perkins Marsh (1864)

  16. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuschDevil View Post
    Here ya' go...
    Cool thanks.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by dukedoc View Post
    Happy that Mike found a new home. I hope he succeeds (and keeps warm!).

    Now on to lighter matters... will they keep his moniker or think up a new one? Perhaps he wants a fresh start. (Does he even know people called him "silent G"?)

    The only thing I could think of was G-'Cuse (GQ), although I'm not sure I like the ring of that one. Any other ideas?

    Now hold on a second. Wasn't it someone here at DBR that coined the nickname SilentG? If 'cuse fans want to use it they should pay a royalty .... or use your GCuse, I like that one.


  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neals384 View Post
    Now hold on a second. Wasn't it someone here at DBR that coined the nickname SilentG? If 'cuse fans want to use it they should pay a royalty .... or use your GCuse, I like that one.

    IIRC, he came to us with the nickname already in place. I thought he picked it up in HS, and his coach explained it as due to both Mike's quiet nature and how he stuffed the stat box without a lot of noise about his game.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  19. #399
    As far as I know, I was the one who named him Silent G but I could be mistaken on that. I had never heard it before though.

    https://twitter.com/#!/DukeHoopBlog/...es/25934298509

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