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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    some of the more pedestrian large state universities

    do not compare, on a mental horsepower basis

    You used a lot of words, but it only took a few to show your real purpose and bias. Why don't we just retitle the thread, "Oh, aren't we woonderful". And we wonder why we are precieved to be so full of ourselves.
    You have completely misread the purpose of the thread-- you think you have spotted the bogeyman, hiding under the covers, but you have not-- participate in the discussion if you want to, or not... or you can spend your time, taking a few phrases out of context... meantime, I will be focusing on those with actual data to contribute to the discussion.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    No, it does not.
    When one posts, not one but, two self congratulatory "mine is better than yours" threads, I think that person simply needs a hug.
    ~rthomas


  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    some of the more pedestrian large state universities

    do not compare, on a mental horsepower basis

    You used a lot of words, but it only took a few to show your real purpose and bias. Why don't we just retitle the thread, "Oh, aren't we woonderful". And we wonder why we are precieved to be so full of ourselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by hurleyfor3 View Post
    Does this thread have a point other than to remind ourselves how wonderful we are for having attended Duke? Where would Lehigh rank if it were in the ACC?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge View Post
    You have completely misread the purpose of the thread-- you think you have spotted the bogeyman, hiding under the covers, but you have not-- participate in the discussion if you want to, or not... or you can spend your time, taking a few phrases out of context... meantime, I will be focusing on those with actual data to contribute to the discussion.
    You have my sympathies, Mudge. The problem with the thread on DBR is that it is a no-win situation. No one who posts here, not even a curmudgeon like you, has the presumed independent status to make an acceptable judgment. I see two ways out of this quandary (no, this is not a play by Sartre). Here are possible reformulations of the original question:

    1. "Leaving aside Duke for obvious reasons, how would you rank or group the ACC schools on an academic basis, including newcomers Pitt and Syracuse?"

    2. "Just as an exercise, using Duke as the example we are most familiar with, what measures or data would you use to judge the excellence of a university?"

    sagegrouse

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    I nearly added a final paragraph at the end of my previous post on this thread (and now I wish I had) that I would not take any such data and infer something about intelligence or potential. Different people mature (intellectually) at different rates, and to different degrees. Duke is a one of the most selective schools in the nation - let's not pretend it isn't out of false humility - but their selection process is based heavily on what a student has done to that point. It does not necessarily mean that they will continue to grow at the same rate or achieve the same things. In fact, I observed not a few classmates who seemed to have peaked in HS (or more often, prep school) - as far as their effort and intellectual engagement went. They seemed to be there for basketball, a degree, and networking. As a senior I would sometimes go down dorm halls and see job rejection letters posted on some doors and think of the irony.

    I think too it has been observed on graduate / professional school threads (perhaps here, perhaps collegeconfidential.com) that top students at state universities often out-hustle their private school counterparts when it comes to work ethic. Good example: one of my good friends is a department DUS at Duke and he was a Big Ten undergrad - and not a "public ivy" big ten like Michigan, either. He went on to Harvard for his PhD. Nothing wrong with state school. In fact, in my 40s I went to community college for music classes - I learned a lot, and met some great people. [and yes, I love the TV show Community as well].

    Duke is very selective. But what matters is what you do with your education.

    Now, I don't pretend to know why mudge was interested in any kind of academic rating of ACC schools. Perhaps curiosity. Perhaps, like me, he has a kid in the throes of college search and wanted to know something about general reputation as a starting point. As I said, the only ranking that matters is your own. So if you really want to be an engineer and being in ATL is key for you, well, Ga Tech has to be your #1 school. For me, it was being in NC. I just love the state. I applied to Duke and UNC, and would have applied to Wake if I hadn't gotten in Duke ED before the deadline for Wake's app. [For grad school, I got in NCSU, but ended up sticking with my professional career path].

    As I mentioned earlier, the top students at a given school are probably going to be the top anywhere. My friend mentioned above is a case in point. But to get a vibe for the school, you probably want to know something more about the median student. If you are in for the intellectual adventure, it may not be enough that there are top students at your School X who are as sharp as the top anywhere. If most people around you are partying like Delta House starting on Wednesday and going through Sunday, you may not be happy. You may want to be at a more intellectual school. If you hate big time sports, you might not like Duke and might prefer UChicago. (talk about self-selection in the admission and yield rates).

    So, mods, if you think this whole thread is fodder for those who think we're a bunch of self-absorbed narcissists who are in danger of injuring our rotator cuff patting ourselves on the back, that's OK, feel free to close and/or delete the thread. I'd also recommend staying away from Duke info sessions as you'll probably hear a lot of stuff about Duke's selectivity there too. They don't do it arrogantly, just as matter of fact and so that applicants know the reality of the situation. If you want arrogance, how about reports that Harvard students chanting at a H-Y game (hoops maybe?) "We are the 6%!"

    Attitude and demeanor are hard to convey in a blog posting - sometimes things are read differently than they would come out if spoken out loud. I have tried to stick to factual information published in college guides and other research. I agree that Mudge's words at times did seem to come awfully close to equating college ranking with intelligence and perhaps even potential. For the record, I don't feel that way myself. I'll let him/her speak for him/herself. (that too came out awkward).

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    If you are in for the intellectual adventure, it may not be enough that there are top students at your School X who are as sharp as the top anywhere. If most people around you are partying like Delta House starting on Wednesday and going through Sunday, you may not be happy.
    PS for the kids, that's a Faber College reference.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dillon, Colorado
    And that's as good a place as any to wind things up.
    Sometimes I mistake this for a universe that cares. -- xkcd #625

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