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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    If Suliamon is as good of a passer as he is a defender, it will greatly improve Mason's chances of having a big year.
    Is that wishful thinking or does he have a reputation for being a good passer? I know his reputation for defense precedes him.
    Rich
    Cameron Crazies Do Not Storm The Court

  2. #62

    To put it another way...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Wheat,

    Seth Curry led Duke this year with 2.4 assists per game. This was the lowest apg average to ever lead Duke. In the shot clock era, Duke has never had anything remotely close to this astonishingly low total. Seth Curry was playing out of position, Tyler Thornton was in for his defense and Quinn Cook was rehabbing a knee. Duke simply did not have quality ACC point-guard play and that was a large part of Duke's inability to adequately utilize Mason (and Miles) Plumlee.
    The 2.4 represented more than a 50% drop from 2010 (Nolan 5.1) and 2009 (John 4.9). And neither one was a natural point guard.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    The 2.4 represented more than a 50% drop from 2010 (Nolan 5.1) and 2009 (John 4.9). And neither one was a natural point guard.
    I'd argue those stats show a team that "would not" pass effectively, (lets call it the Austin effect), not necessasarilly a team that "could not". And we are back to my lack of commitment to get it in the low post for easy baskets observation.

    CoachJ10...I saw most of the conference games and the bigger non conference games. When Duke was playing better teams, Mason was not a real focus offensively in the low post. The effort was just not there, IMO. At least not at the level I think he should have been involved in the big games.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I'd argue those stats show a team that "would not" pass effectively, (lets call it the Austin effect), not necessasarilly a team that "could not". And we are back to my lack of commitment to get it in the low post for easy baskets observation.

    CoachJ10...I saw most of the conference games and the bigger non conference games. When Duke was playing better teams, Mason was not a real focus offensively in the low post. The effort was just not there, IMO. At least not at the level I think he should have been involved in the big games.
    Trust me, if Tyler Thornton could have averaged 4.0 assists per game, he would have. It wasn't a lack of committment.

    Duke did not have quality passing from its point guards. I don't see how that point (ha! ha! I break myself up) could possibly be in dispute.

    Post players benefit from better point-guard play and suffer from poorer point-guard play. I don't see how that could possibly be in dispute.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Trust me, if Tyler Thornton could have averaged 4.0 assists per game, he would have. It wasn't a lack of committment.

    Duke did not have quality passing from its point guards. I don't see how that point (ha! ha! I break myself up) could possibly be in dispute.

    Post players benefit from better point-guard play and suffer from poorer point-guard play. I don't see how that could possibly be in dispute.
    It's not in dispute, it's not in dispute, Jim.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Trust me, if Tyler Thornton could have averaged 4.0 assists per game, he would have. It wasn't a lack of committment.

    Duke did not have quality passing from its point guards. I don't see how that point (ha! ha! I break myself up) could possibly be in dispute.

    Post players benefit from better point-guard play and suffer from poorer point-guard play. I don't see how that could possibly be in dispute.

    stubborn.jpg
    Twerp-free since July 1, 2014.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I'd argue those stats show a team that "would not" pass effectively, (lets call it the Austin effect), not necessasarilly a team that "could not". And we are back to my lack of commitment to get it in the low post for easy baskets observation.

    CoachJ10...I saw most of the conference games and the bigger non conference games. When Duke was playing better teams, Mason was not a real focus offensively in the low post. The effort was just not there, IMO. At least not at the level I think he should have been involved in the big games.
    Again this is just not true. You tell on yourself every time you make statements like this. The Kansas game and Ohio State games are just two examples. Mason got the ball early and often and performed well.

    Regarding our guards lack of ability to pass, if you want to doubt me, then fine, no biggie, but doubting Jim Sumner who sat courtside for every single home game is just down right silly. I think we know our team much better than folks who caught a handful of games on TV, and just bought into the inaccurate media hype. Passing matters. It was a combination of guards not having the ability to pass on time, in the right place, and with the right "touch", with guards looking for their own shot and ignoring the open post guy.

    It reached the point where it was so bad, K dialed it back and put more focus on shooting 3's.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Is that wishful thinking or does he have a reputation for being a good passer? I know his reputation for defense precedes him.
    Wishful thinking at the moment. He is going to be a good one though. I am anxious to see how good his court vision is and how well he passed the ball. He tweeted last night that K told him to prepare to play some point, so there must be something there. That also might be a signal that Thornton is used as a backup wing defender vs a point guard. I assume Cook would be the starting PG backed up by Rasheed. Rasheed would be used at the 2 and at the 1.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Post players benefit from better point-guard play and suffer from poorer point-guard play. I don't see how that could possibly be in dispute.
    It's not, at least from me.

    My argument for lack of commitment was from coach K, not Tyler, or Seth, or Austin...He had Mason at the high post most of the time, or at least during prime time. It's hard to feed the post when there is no post
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    It's not, at least from me.

    My argument for lack of commitment was from coach K, not Tyler, or Seth, or Austin...He had Mason at the high post most of the time, or at least during prime time. It's hard to feed the post when there is no post
    Just because he was in one area of the paint doesn't mean he wasn't in the other.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by IBleedBlue View Post
    I agree with your assessment. A big coach who has played either PF or C position would be of great help in this situation and to also remove the notion of being unable to develop big men. However, unfortunately, when you make such statements, some members on this board will declare you a troll and announce you as a fan of a different blue. I have done it before and one poster called my post as a 'negative recruiting advertisement'. Well, the word is on the street now and being talked among high school coaches and former players. We will see what will be done to quell this notion.

    All I hope and wish now are two things:

    1. We pull of major top 10 recruit within next two years for PF or C positions.
    2. Mason doesn't drop in to second round of next year's draft by coming back. The pounding would be relentless if that happens.
    It's not that posters are talking about Wojo being small for a big man coach. It's when asked to name a big man coach on a top 50 team who was a PF or C you cannot do it. That is why people are considered trolls. That and the fact this comes up every year.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    It's not, at least from me.

    My argument for lack of commitment was from coach K, not Tyler, or Seth, or Austin...He had Mason at the high post most of the time, or at least during prime time. It's hard to feed the post when there is no post
    Jim is saying that the coaching staff wanted to get Mason involved. The players just weren't good at it. So, yes, you are in fact disputing what he said.

    You clearly don't watch much of the Duke games if you think Mason spent most of his time in the high post. And if you think Mason wasn't involved offensively against some of the better teams we played.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Jim is saying that the coaching staff wanted to get Mason involved. The players just weren't good at it. So, yes, you are in fact disputing what he said.

    You clearly don't watch much of the Duke games if you think Mason spent most of his time in the high post. And if you think Mason wasn't involved offensively against some of the better teams we played.
    I don't doubt the staff wanted him involved. It's the decision of how to involve him that I challenge.

    Mason was used too far from the basket too much of the time to be as effective as I think he could have been.

    That's really all I'm trying to say.

    When I say "low post" I mean having at least one foot inside the lane, or being at the front of the rim at the charge circle when the pass is received.

    Mason was used at the high post, or at let's call it the wide post,(a step outside the lane), most of the time. He usually had three options. Pass, put it on the floor and drive, or shoot a mid range jumper.

    He should catch the ball in a position on the floor where "dunk" is one of his options.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

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