Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 73
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    What does Mason and the Coaching staff have to say about his "Development goals" for his Senior year?

    Its easy to say "this needs to get better" or "that needs to improve" .. yadda yadda... but unless someone is going to expressly define the goals for him and how he fits as a focal for the team... then all he can do is disappoint and feed the perception.


    Hello Rock, meet hard place..

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by billoz View Post

    The problem now is that this subject/perception has moved from Bullocks and DBR to the living rooms of recruits, rivals' websites and to the computers and venues of sports personalities (Brad Daugherty). And it is not going away. It was bothersome reading that Mason's high school coach said, " Duke uses big men as screeners, rebounders and defenders." We also saw this in comments from Mitch McGary and Tony Parker. You can bet these are not isolated incidents.
    It certainly hasn't helped our recruiting to have coaches and commentators sharing their perception that Duke fails to develop interior players.

    We really need Jabari. That one is gonna be huge.

    s.i.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleIrish View Post
    It certainly hasn't helped our recruiting to have coaches and commentators sharing their perception that Duke fails to develop interior players.

    We really need Jabari. That one is gonna be huge.

    s.i.
    I pointed this out recently and was duly castigated. As stated before, a big coach who is really a big would help;
    Wojo does his best, but that wasn't his position. Too bad his (and Ks, since Wojo is his alter ego) and Ks egos
    are too much tied up in this. Makes it tough to get someone else.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gewebe14 View Post
    Ok.

    I think this still helps my point overall -- his game's greatest strength (rebounding) is something he is not "elite" at, over 30 players are better than he is.
    Except that you're talking about all of Division I, without adjusting for player roles or levels of competition. Mason's defensive rebounding really does put him in elite company.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Gewebe14 View Post
    I think this still helps my point overall -- his game's greatest strength (rebounding) is something he is not "elite" at, over 30 players are better than he is. Offensive rebounding I'm guessing he is a bit stronger, so maybe taking them together there is a different story. However, I think defensive rebounding is more important. Defensive rebounding appeared to me as be a pretty big weakness on this years Duke team.
    Are you serious? Top 35 in the country is anything is pretty elite. But, if you want to look at it another way, Mason is 8th in the country in defensive rebounding percentage if you only count "Big 6" conferences. He's 2nd in the ACC.

    Jared Sullinger is 48th in the nation in defensive rebounding percentage. Mike Scott is 41st. Anthony Davis is 52nd. Tyler Zeller is 181st.

    Give it up. You were wrong about Mason's defensive rebounding prowess. Your guess is also wrong about his offensive rebounding -- he's not nearly as good at that (153rd in the country) than he is at defensive rebounding.

    Miles, on the other hand, was 8th in the country in offensive rebounding percentage (2nd among "Big 6" players). That's pretty amazing if you think about it.


    .
    Last edited by Kedsy; 04-13-2012 at 12:50 PM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Looks fairly "elite" to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Gewebe14 View Post
    Ok.

    I think this still helps my point overall -- his game's greatest strength (rebounding) is something he is not "elite" at, over 30 players are better than he is. Offensive rebounding I'm guessing he is a bit stronger, so maybe taking them together there is a different story. However, I think defensive rebounding is more important. Defensive rebounding appeared to me as be a pretty big weakness on this years Duke team.
    Not getting at the rest of your argument, but I believe the Pomeroy rankings are out of all players nationally. I wish I knew exactly how many D1 players there are total, but with over 340 teams in Pomeroy's rankings there must be over 3400 players accounted for meaning that a #32 ranking is in the top 1% of defensive rebounders. That's pretty elite. And that's without taking into account the fact that he was having to share rebounds with another very good rebounder, his brother.

    One can have all kinds of fun with stats, so I'm not saying this proves that Mason is an elite defensive rebounder, but his being #32 in this particular stat certainly doesn't tend to refute it.

    (Just for fun, I'll mention that there are some NBA tracked Synergy stats that basically provide an adjusted rebounding +/- rating which sometimes does not match with a player's other offensive and defensive rebounding #s and %s. This could mean that while one is good at grabbing all their teams easy rebounds when on the court, their rebounding style somehow hinders the team's overall rebounding acumen (perhaps they never box out except when going for a rebound themselves). Also, a player who is especially efficient at blocking the opposing power forward out, allowing others on his own team to get the rebound, is not credited with a rebound yet has likely played a larger role in the team gaining/retaining possession than the other player who perhaps didn't need to box anyone out. Or perhaps he really is a great rebounder, but because of the team's substitution pattern he is always forced to play with a lineup of 4 other poor rebounders? Anyways, some food for thought and argument for use of advanced stats, while remaining careful about how one interprets the data.)

    Go Duke!!!!!!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #27
    Blah, blah, blah. Duke can't win with the 3. Duke can't develop NBA players. Duke is too unathletic to win (won it all that year). Duke can't this, Duke can't that. This is just the next train to hop on to draw in the masses. Come on guys, don't fall for it. It's a stupid argument. Coaches are saying it, commentators are saying it, daddy's are saying it...sure they are, they want to say anything to be heard and dissing Duke is a sure way to do it. Just be glad we're still being talked about, year after year after year and enjoy it til Coach K retires cause I guarantee it ain't stopping.

    And can someone please give me a statistical breakdown of the heights for the other big men coaches on top teams so we can put yet another stupid argument to rest I would appreciate it.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    ... but unless someone is going to expressly define the goals for him and how he fits as a focal for the team...
    Two things I am reasonably sure of are Mason's "development goals" have already been defined but neither the staff nor Mason are going to post the list on DBR. We all are going to have to push the "I believe" button and move on. I'm excited Mason has decided to return to Duke for his senior season and look forward to him having a stellar season. I don't really care what David Gaines thinks and I definitely don't care what Brad Daugherty thinks.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by billoz View Post
    The problem now is that this subject/perception has moved from Bullocks and DBR to the living rooms of recruits, rivals' websites and to the computers and venues of sports personalities (Brad Daugherty). And it is not going away. It was bothersome reading that Mason's high school coach said, " Duke uses big men as screeners, rebounders and defenders." We also saw this in comments from Mitch McGary and Tony Parker. You can bet these are not isolated incidents.

    To launch into another round of posts as to the reality of this also misses the point; this is not just about reality, but perception. And in the world of basketball recruiting, where illusions of grandeur often replace any sense of reality, perception is everything to some.

    This beast is not going to be tamed nor removed by posts, DBR articles or any amount of our futile debates among friends from rival schools. The remedy exist with Coach K. I make no pretense about having a solution, I am not a head coach. However, it seems inevitable, that if Duke wants to be able to consistently recruit a good big man, a strategy is needed to deal with this. A couple of years ago, when the "Duke hate" fever was in full pitch, Coach K made it one of his objectives to take that head on. It is time this "reality/perception" also be taken head on. My guess is he is already at it. Mason will be a good place to start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    My hope with all of this negativity is that it not only gives Mason more incentive to develop his game and become the dominant inside player he can be, but also gives the coaching staff the incentive to showcase their ability to develop, and run an offense through, a big man. Perception is more important than reality sometimes and, whether true or false, with the recent comments by recruits, coaches and the media, the Duke basketball program is clearly teetering on the brink of "can't develop a big man." Mason can dispel that with strong scoring numbers. I'm concerned, however, that if he can't develop the inside game that outsiders think he should have, it's going to hurt our ability to recruit big men even more than we've seen up to now.
    Scary how similar our posts are. Of course, my post is about 1 hour earlier than yours.
    Rich
    Cameron Crazies Do Not Storm The Court

  10. This is a touchy subject but I'm gonna throw my two cents in anyway.

    First of all, I agree that Mason has improved every year. It's obvious to me that he has.

    Second, there's absolutely nothing wrong with setting screens, blocking shots and rebounding, that's what all big men should do and know how to do well.

    Third, I acknowledge that at some games Mason doesn't seem to be aggressive enough about establishing position and demanding the ball. That said I've also seen plenty of games where he has.

    BUT

    I agree that Mason can be utilized better.

    He doesn't receive the ball enough and quickly enough in the post, and when he does it often isn't with the best positioning. Look at how Kansas uses their bigs -- their hi-lo plays put their bigs in scoring positions. We never seem to run those kinds of plays for Mason.

    Why does he turn the ball over so often? In part because he's simply not receiving the ball in a good position. A dominant center should never have to dribble the ball for long; it should be two, maximum three dribbles before you're in a position to lay-up the ball.

    Mason is an awesome running big man. But we hardly go on the fast break...in most part because we don't have the guards to do it (post-Kyrie), but that would be one way to utilize Mason more effectively.

    He is also a fantastic passer. However, when he has the ball in the high post how often does another player cut to the basket? Usually we just stand around the perimeter waiting for a pass. Our offense becomes stagnant and Mason doesn't have the chance to showcase his passing skills. Sure, this may not be his fault, but it's another valid instance of how we are not utilizing him to his potential. Mason would be really great in a motion offense.


    I'm sure he'll improve yet again in his senior year, but I'm not confident he will produce significantly better numbers. The source of that pessimism lies in the fact that this past season was supposed to be the year that Mason breaks out, that he becomes a major part of our offense. Yet I think most will agree that at best he played a complementary role in the offense this year.

    7.4 shot attempts isn't very much at all, especially when many of those were alley-oops and put-backs.
    Last edited by ice-9; 04-13-2012 at 01:07 PM.
    http://cornerplay.com - once a day on technology, gadgets and entrepreneurship

  11. #31
    Gaines' and Daughterty's comments are just revisionist history and kicking a man while he's down (due to the loss to a 15 seed). Mason has gotten better and gotten utilized more every single year at Duke. This will continue next season.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    I don't really care what David Gaines thinks and I definitely don't care what Brad Daugherty thinks.
    Agreed, but to the extent this same sentiment is communicated (ad nauseum, I'm sure) to our big man recruits by our recruiting competitors, it does make a difference and needs to be disspelled.
    Rich
    Cameron Crazies Do Not Storm The Court

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleIrish View Post
    It certainly hasn't helped our recruiting to have coaches and commentators sharing their perception that Duke fails to develop interior players.

    We really need Jabari. That one is gonna be huge.

    s.i.
    Perception problem?
    Probably so, though I'd say that a kid being recruited by Duke should get plenty of information about what is real and what isn't.
    FWIW, I do think the wide-spread Terping about "Duke gets all the calls" which our friend Billy Packer helped promote, had some actual effect on how our games were called.

    Does this mean Coach K needs to go on a P.R. offensive?
    No, I'd rather see him continue to work with players and develop relationships with recrruits; and it wouldn't hurt Mason to work on his 10 to 15 foot jump shot.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by ice-9 View Post
    He doesn't receive the ball enough and quickly enough...
    This past season you could say this about all of our players who didn't have the ball in their hands already.

    It was most glaring with Mason and Andre, but also Miles and Seth (when he wasn't the primary ballhandler). Ryan didn't seem to have this problem when he set up outside, perhaps because he's so tall for a three-point shooter, but he did when he went inside. Also, the fact that most of our players were not good creators when they had the ball exacerbated the problem of them not getting the ball at the prime moment when they got open.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    This past season you could say this about all of our players who didn't have the ball in their hands already.

    It was most glaring with Mason and Andre, but also Miles and Seth (when he wasn't the primary ballhandler). Ryan didn't seem to have this problem when he set up outside, perhaps because he's so tall for a three-point shooter, but he did when he went inside. Also, the fact that most of our players were not good creators when they had the ball exacerbated the problem of them not getting the ball at the prime moment when they got open.
    You make a great point here. The pick and pop was very effective with Ryan Kelly while the pick and roll with Miles was largely ineffective because no matter how wide open Miles was on the roll he rarely received the ball back from the guard. The opportunity to deliver the pass to the man rolling is short lived and our guards seemed to hesitate just enough that the opportunity disappeared.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Are you serious? Top 35 in the country is anything is pretty elite. But, if you want to look at it another way, Mason is 8th in the country in defensive rebounding percentage if you only count "Big 6" conferences. He's 2nd in the ACC.

    Jared Sullinger is 48th in the nation in defensive rebounding percentage. Mike Scott is 41st. Anthony Davis is 52nd. Tyler Zeller is 181st.

    Give it up. You were wrong about Mason's defensive rebounding prowess. Your guess is also wrong about his offensive rebounding -- he's not nearly as good at that (153rd in the country) than he is at defensive rebounding.

    Miles, on the other hand, was 8th in the country in offensive rebounding percentage (2nd among "Big 6" players). That's pretty amazing if you think about it.


    .
    Yeah I am serious. Obviously he is a very good college rebounder and, yes, the KenPom numbers show him as better than I thought they would. I admit that freely. However, since I don't have access it was difficult for me to know this in advance. I am considering as "elite" a lottery pick as the concern in the article was with his NBA status. Not college elite. Does being the 8th-best big-6 conference defensive rebounder in the country as a junior make you a lottery pick if that is your best attribute? Clearly not since he was projected as a late first round pick this year.

    I think people are missing the actual point of my post -- mason's (relative) lack of NBA interest has nothing to do with how Coach K uses him in the system. There are plenty of ways for players to show that they are NBA players outside of what offensive system you are in and Mason hasn't done many of them (except, sorry, maybe defensive rebounding.)

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Scary how similar our posts are. Of course, my post is about 1 hour earlier than yours.

    Rich,
    Honestly, I didn't see yours or I probably would not have written mine.
    As soon as I read the DBR article, I suspected where the direction of the responses would go. I started mine and had to pause for while to answer some calls.
    BTW, great post!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Gewebe14 View Post
    Yeah I am serious. Obviously he is a very good college rebounder and, yes, the KenPom numbers show him as better than I thought they would. I admit that freely. However, since I don't have access it was difficult for me to know this in advance.
    Try statsheet. Has a lot of the tempo free stats (although not all), and it doesn't cost anything.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Gewebe14 View Post
    Yeah I am serious. Obviously he is a very good college rebounder and, yes, the KenPom numbers show him as better than I thought they would. I admit that freely. However, since I don't have access it was difficult for me to know this in advance. I am considering as "elite" a lottery pick as the concern in the article was with his NBA status. Not college elite. Does being the 8th-best big-6 conference defensive rebounder in the country as a junior make you a lottery pick if that is your best attribute? Clearly not since he was projected as a late first round pick this year.

    I think people are missing the actual point of my post -- mason's (relative) lack of NBA interest has nothing to do with how Coach K uses him in the system. There are plenty of ways for players to show that they are NBA players outside of what offensive system you are in and Mason hasn't done many of them (except, sorry, maybe defensive rebounding.)
    Thoroughly unconvincing argument. Are any kids projected as lottery picks based on only one attribute? As pointed out, Mason rebounds at a better rate than Sullinger, who is projected as a lottery pick whose best attribute is being huge in the paint. Rebounding is part of being huge in the paint.
    I wish the NBA was as uninterested in me as they are in Mason.

  20. #40

    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by hq2 View Post
    I pointed this out recently and was duly castigated. As stated before, a big coach who is really a big would help;
    Wojo does his best, but that wasn't his position. Too bad his (and Ks, since Wojo is his alter ego) and Ks egos
    are too much tied up in this. Makes it tough to get someone else.
    I agree with your assessment. A big coach who has played either PF or C position would be of great help in this situation and to also remove the notion of being unable to develop big men.
    However, unfortunately, when you make such statements, some members on this board will declare you a troll and announce you as a fan of a different blue. I have done it before and one poster called my post as a 'negative recruiting advertisement'. Well, the word is on the street now and being talked among high school coaches and former players. We will see what will be done to quell this notion.

    All I hope and wish now are two things:

    1. We pull of major top 10 recruit within next two years for PF or C positions.
    2. Mason doesn't drop in to second round of next year's draft by coming back. The pounding would be relentless if that happens.

Similar Threads

  1. I am TOTALLY hyped for Cowboys and Aliens....
    By moonpie23 in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-10-2011, 09:20 AM
  2. He Shoots! He Misses!
    By aheel4ever in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 10-20-2009, 08:31 AM
  3. Colin Cowherd doesn't totally hate Duke
    By Cormac in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-11-2008, 10:45 AM
  4. Man, I like Totally Need a Haircut!
    By EarlJam in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 06-22-2007, 02:05 PM
  5. BOB HARRIS, we totally agree
    By godukecom in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-08-2007, 11:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •