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  1. #21
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkline09 View Post
    How about the communications professor allowing him to bump back that speech not once but twice? Is that a perk allowed to other student's in the class? I think not
    Professors everywhere (even at Duke!) allow student-athletes to push back deadlines based on games, tournaments, etc. This isn't unusual.

    That said, he clearly makes a mockery of being a student. Not really his fault though, the system is broken. The #1 option for amateur players after HS is to go to college b/c they can't go pro, even if they have no interest in being in school. Sure you can go to Europe or I think even the NBDL (??) but the best competition, the best place to learn, the best option if you want to get drafted into the NBA, is to play in college.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    Professors everywhere (even at Duke!) allow student-athletes to push back deadlines based on games, tournaments, etc. This isn't unusual.

    That said, he clearly makes a mockery of being a student. Not really his fault though, the system is broken. The #1 option for amateur players after HS is to go to college b/c they can't go pro, even if they have no interest in being in school. Sure you can go to Europe or I think even the NBDL (??) but the best competition, the best place to learn, the best option if you want to get drafted into the NBA, is to play in college.
    Agreed. I don't have a problem with Davis. He seems like a nice kid and is very well spoken.

    But the system is a joke...

  3. #23
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    Apr 2008
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    Jacksonville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    Professors everywhere (even at Duke!) allow student-athletes to push back deadlines based on games, tournaments, etc. This isn't unusual.

    That said, he clearly makes a mockery of being a student. Not really his fault though, the system is broken. The #1 option for amateur players after HS is to go to college b/c they can't go pro, even if they have no interest in being in school. Sure you can go to Europe or I think even the NBDL (??) but the best competition, the best place to learn, the best option if you want to get drafted into the NBA, is to play in college.
    Completely agree. I had a class in college with a couple of basketball players and at the beginning of the semester the instructor told us that there would be a strick attendance policy and that if you missed more than 3 classes their would be no way of passing. He also said he would take attendance every class to keep track. Granted this was a coaching basketball class, he told us how strict he would be. As it turned out those two basketball players made maybe half of the classes and that attendance policy, well that just went away. So I get it I do, but I don't think it is very fair for the rest of us, but life isn't fair so I just complain about it

  4. #24
    I skipped class all the time when I was in college. I think back in those days you could miss as many as 10 classes a semester and I made sure to hit my limit. I also got people to sign in for me attending class when I wasn't there (a lot of students did this for each other back then). There are a lot of regular students who don't think much of college. A lot of regular students who spend more time going to parties and trying to get laid rather than attending class. A lot of people like to look down on these athletes for not being interested in class, but I remember going to school with lots of students who didn't care about class either.

  5. #25
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    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxAMillion View Post
    I skipped class all the time when I was in college. I think back in those days you could miss as many as 10 classes a semester and I made sure to hit my limit. I also got people to sign in for me attending class when I wasn't there (a lot of students did this for each other back then). There are a lot of regular students who don't think much of college. A lot of regular students who spend more time going to parties and trying to get laid rather than attending class. A lot of people like to look down on these athletes for not being interested in class, but I remember going to school with lots of students who didn't care about class either.
    Kids partied and still managed to graduate in most cases...

  6. #26
    Skipping classes was pretty normal when I was a student at Duke - hand in your papers and show up for your tests - if you know the material at the end of the semester no one should care whether you spent time in a room designated for teaching you that material. I can only remember one class that actually had an attendance policy/requirement. Maybe Duke has turned into a nanny state in the two decades since I left...

    also I really dont think the one and dones undermine the system - there are 3000+ division one basketball players. Less than 1% are one and done. The progress toward graduation requirements provides incentives for the other 99% and the lack of a degree for the 1% that go pro is no more tragic than it is for Bill Gates, who also dropped out of school to go pro.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    Skipping classes was pretty normal when I was a student at Duke - hand in your papers and show up for your tests - if you know the material at the end of the semester no one should care whether you spent time in a room designated for teaching you that material. I can only remember one class that actually had an attendance policy/requirement. Maybe Duke has turned into a nanny state in the two decades since I left...

    also I really dont think the one and dones undermine the system - there are 3000+ division one basketball players. Less than 1% are one and done. The progress toward graduation requirements provides incentives for the other 99% and the lack of a degree for the 1% that go pro is no more tragic than it is for Bill Gates, who also dropped out of school to go pro.
    I don't have a problem with kids going pro. I have a problem with the flaunting of the system. At least pay the lip service of being a student athlete instead of joking about how much class you ditched knowing you were only staying a year because you had to.

    Either stop forcing kids to go to school for a year or have some sort of penalty system for one and done kids where the school loses that scholarship for a year if a kid goes pro (or maybe some penalty not as harsh). That way, you don't see schools like Kentucky stockpiling one and done players.

    As for Bill Gates, I don't think he had a free ride to school. In fact, many kids who leave school early for careers don't have free rides. If they did, would they leave school early?

  8. #28
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    Feb 2007
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    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Be careful. Even at duke, Athletes get automatic deans excuses for away games...a "perk" not allowed to other students in the class.
    This obviously goes back a ways, but when I was at Duke I was friendly with Quin Snyder and we were in an Econ class together. Not only did he have access to amazing study guides as an athlete that he showed to me (although I had no way of possessing them since I was not an athlete) but also, I believe, a tutor. It's foolish to think things have changed. Frankly, for all the time they travel, I think D1 athletes deserve some extra perks and I did not begrudge him at all, although I was certainly jealous (and Quin had a lot of attributes a guy could be jealous about).
    Rich
    Cameron Crazies Do Not Storm The Court

  9. #29
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    Feb 2007
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    Durham, NC

    What makes you think...?

    That student athletes are the only ones who ask for and get extensions on their papers, tests, and every other imaginable assignment? I teach at Duke, have lots of the basketball players in class, and--with one or two exceptions over 25 years--have found that the athletes ask for fewer extensions than do non-athletes. Can Christian Laettner get an extension on a paper that is due the day after the national championship game? Sure. Can Buzz Skippy--even though he is NOT an athlete--get an extension on a paper that is due the day after the national championship game? Sure. What about the day after his fraternity party? After his parents' weekend visit?


    It has been my long-held belief that I grant extensions virtually any time a student asks. I do this because I have 25 years of data saying that if students really NEED an extension, they will do an excellent job on the assignment... but if they are just phutzing around and wasting time, the extension isn't going to do them any good at all!

    Our men and women athletes are terrific for the most part. That being said, you guys better get your final papers in on time!
    DukeDevilDeb

  10. #30
    I had a class once with a few basketball players who came to the first class, then the last class to hand in the final paper, and nothing in between. I assume they did fine; in the interest of full disclosure, though I typically rarely missed a class, I only deemed it necessary to go to that particular class about half the time. Similarly, I had a couple classes with Battier, including a math class (he got an A, I got a B), and he was there literally every session. I also had a very smart friend who literally never went to an intro Chemistry class except for tests, actually specifically taking pride in taking a nap during that time period; he got an A. Obviously, Duke has higher academic standards than other schools, but it has its share of slack-jobs, basketball players or not.

    And I'll reiterate... Anthony Davis can play for my team anytime.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    I don't have a problem with kids going pro. I have a problem with the flaunting of the system. At least pay the lip service of being a student athlete instead of joking about how much class you ditched knowing you were only staying a year because you had to.

    Either stop forcing kids to go to school for a year or have some sort of penalty system for one and done kids where the school loses that scholarship for a year if a kid goes pro (or maybe some penalty not as harsh). That way, you don't see schools like Kentucky stockpiling one and done players.

    As for Bill Gates, I don't think he had a free ride to school. In fact, many kids who leave school early for careers don't have free rides. If they did, would they leave school early?
    I think you mean flout, not flaunt.

    Most athletes do not get "free rides". I'm not defending one and done basketball players, but the overwhelming majority of NCAA student-athletes (who are usually students first) you are attacking with broad strokes.

  12. #32
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    I think you mean flout, not flaunt.

    Most athletes do not get "free rides". I'm not defending one and done basketball players, but the overwhelming majority of NCAA student-athletes (who are usually students first) you are attacking with broad strokes.
    I'm not attacking student athletes. I'm attacking one and dones and how they cheapen the term student athlete. There is a limit on characters in the titles of threads, so allow me to add "becoming due to one and dones" to the title.

    I also did not say "most" get free rides. I said "many."

    And yes, I probably meant flout, not flaunt.

  13. #33
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    Jan 2009
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    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I had a class once with a few basketball players who came to the first class, then the last class to hand in the final paper, and nothing in between. I assume they did fine; in the interest of full disclosure, though I typically rarely missed a class, I only deemed it necessary to go to that particular class about half the time. Similarly, I had a couple classes with Battier, including a math class (he got an A, I got a B), and he was there literally every session. I also had a very smart friend who literally never went to an intro Chemistry class except for tests, actually specifically taking pride in taking a nap during that time period; he got an A. Obviously, Duke has higher academic standards than other schools, but it has its share of slack-jobs, basketball players or not.

    And I'll reiterate... Anthony Davis can play for my team anytime.

    Yep, I went to Arizona and studied Journalism and Communications. Comm was a popular major for athletes and it was the same thing. I remember I saw Andre Iguodala maybe 2 times the semester he was in my class. Rolled in the first few classes and that was basically it. Football was a bit different, but still mostly the same idea. It's not a product of the student, it's a product of the system. It needs to be changed as its a joke.

    Anthony Davis can play for me, student or no student. I had never really heard him speak, but I enjoyed watching this clip. He does seem really genuine. Loved him talking about his unibrow. Lol

  14. #34

    New York Times article: Kentucky and Student Athletes

    Interesting:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/sp...tml?ref=sports

    "In an ideal world, everyone would stay four years and graduate. But Kentucky’s basketball program is in fact a tribute to a real-world system that works, preparing young people for a viable profession — in this case, professional athletics."

  15. #35
    This seems like a rehash of the interminable thread last about the hypocrisy of the NCAA and "amateurism," but if Anthony Davis is indeed going pro, as most expect, he should be getting ready to go pro and for the rest of his life, not necessarily focusing on class. I'd imagine most bball players take a relatively light 2nd-semester load, so maybe he can do both, but the focus should definitely be on his career. He should be selfish and do what's best for him. It's not his fault (nor is it Calipari's for that matter) that the NBA and NCAA have such asinine rules that essentially force the best high school players to pretend to be "real college students*" for a year.

    *During my time in college there were plenty of kids who were there for only a semester or a year, almost always for much worse reasons than signing multi-million dollar contracts for employment. We always considered them real students, regardless of whether they went to class. Some of them were even fun to be around, if not influenced by. They added to my college experience.

  16. #36
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    Mar 2007
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    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    So you think this sort of thing doesn't spit in the eye of the term "student athlete"? I understand that one and done are not the norm, but they're becoming more prevalent and the fact that Cal won a championship with this formula means that more coaches will likely be looking at this approach.

    There are LOTS of reasons student athletes might graduate at a higher rate:

    - many of them get free rides; many non-student athletes probably don't graduate because they can't afford school/living costs any more or they have to work just to keep up, which hinders their studies
    - the incentive of playing their sport helps ensure they keep their grades up
    - student athletes often have accesses to resources that other students might not have (free tutors, etc)
    - a number of student athletes major in areas that some might call "cakewalks"

    That said, I'd be interested in seeing actual numbers on this, and even more interested on seeing the numbers on student athletes ONLY in the major sports like football, basketball, etc and leave out the non-money makers, since you're more apt to find what's closer to a true "student athlete" in those sports.

    I found this Time article:

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...063677,00.html

    I also found this blog:

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/dum...te-propaganda/
    Many coaches have probably trying to emulate his approach for years but it isn't a realistic approach for more than 2-3 coaches simply because there aren't that many one and done caliber players every year. Heck, there are only 30 first round picks each year and there are always at least 5-10 upper class men and 5-10 foreign players drafted in the first round each year. I doubt that the average number of legitimate one and dones (meaning first round picks, there are always a few that over estimate their skills) each year is higher than 7 or 8. That's not enough recruits for more than a couple of schools and Kentucky seems to always have 2 or 3 of those.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    I'm not attacking student athletes. I'm attacking one and dones and how they cheapen the term student athlete. There is a limit on characters in the titles of threads, so allow me to add "becoming due to one and dones" to the title.
    In that case, I agree with you that one and dones cheapen the concept of student-athlete (and amateurism), but not to the point that I'd consider the term "student athlete" to be a joke.

  18. #38
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    Apr 2010
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    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    So you think this sort of thing doesn't spit in the eye of the term "student athlete"? I understand that one and done are not the norm, but they're becoming more prevalent and the fact that Cal won a championship with this formula means that more coaches will likely be looking at this approach.
    The stats just don't back up the statement that one and dones are becoming more prevalent. They might be getting more attention, but they aren't growing in number from year to year.

    2007 - 8. Three from Ohio State, two from Georgia Tech
    2008 - 12. Two from Kansas State, two from UCLA
    2009 - 4.
    2010 - 10. Four from Kentucky.
    2011 - 7 (Including Kanter). Two from Kentucky, two from Texas.

    It's a small sample size, but nothing seems to indicate an upward trend in the annual number of one and dones. Maybe a school's academics play a role in where one and dones tend to go, but even at Kentucky, as Anthony Davis mentioned, they still have to go to class. I think it tends to be individuals and not the system that cheapen the idea of the student athlete. Sure, there are guys who will stop going to class the minute their eligibility doesn't depend on it, but there are plenty of guys like Kyrie Irving, John Wall, and Kevin Durant who kept going to class after their seasons ended and have continued to make progress toward their degrees in the off season (or during the lockout). And with the way the APR excepts students who leave to go professional, you can't say that their just doing it to avoid sanctions for their schools.

  19. #39
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dcdevil2009 View Post
    The stats just don't back up the statement that one and dones are becoming more prevalent. They might be getting more attention, but they aren't growing in number from year to year.

    2007 - 8. Three from Ohio State, two from Georgia Tech
    2008 - 12. Two from Kansas State, two from UCLA
    2009 - 4.
    2010 - 10. Four from Kentucky.
    2011 - 7 (Including Kanter). Two from Kentucky, two from Texas.

    It's a small sample size, but nothing seems to indicate an upward trend in the annual number of one and dones. Maybe a school's academics play a role in where one and dones tend to go, but even at Kentucky, as Anthony Davis mentioned, they still have to go to class. I think it tends to be individuals and not the system that cheapen the idea of the student athlete. Sure, there are guys who will stop going to class the minute their eligibility doesn't depend on it, but there are plenty of guys like Kyrie Irving, John Wall, and Kevin Durant who kept going to class after their seasons ended and have continued to make progress toward their degrees in the off season (or during the lockout). And with the way the APR excepts students who leave to go professional, you can't say that their just doing it to avoid sanctions for their schools.
    So how many one and dones before the NBA rule was instituted? And how many "straight to NBA"?

    I think it's become much more prevalent since the 80s and 90s...

    And I'd argue that 10 last year and 4 from the same school could qualify as "more prevalent."

  20. #40
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    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    Skipping classes was pretty normal when I was a student at Duke - hand in your papers and show up for your tests - if you know the material at the end of the semester no one should care whether you spent time in a room designated for teaching you that material. I can only remember one class that actually had an attendance policy/requirement. Maybe Duke has turned into a nanny state in the two decades since I left...

    also I really dont think the one and dones undermine the system - there are 3000+ division one basketball players. Less than 1% are one and done. The progress toward graduation requirements provides incentives for the other 99% and the lack of a degree for the 1% that go pro is no more tragic than it is for Bill Gates, who also dropped out of school to go pro.
    You might find this of interest: the progenitor of Hasidic Judaism, said to have been brilliant, refused to permit his followers to write down anything he said. Current science in essence has confirmed what this noted Rebbe understood: that one who tries to capture in writing what a learned person has to say will miss and misapprehend much. That is not to say that students who attend lectures will not pick up enough about trees to be of help on tests. As for seeing nuance in trees, or even comprehending the existence of forest, perhaps not so much. As compared to the guy who only reads and deconstructs books, who knows.

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