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  1. #341

    Experience will win out

    PG - Tyler
    SG - Seth
    SF - Alex
    PF - Ryan
    C - Mason

    Cook for Tyler
    Sheed for Seth
    Josh for Ryan
    Marshall for Mason

    Okay - the big hole, obviously, is no one is "in" for Alex. This, I think, becomes situational. Three guards? Three bigs? Josh at the 3? Sheed at the 3?

    If Andre does play - he plays some 2 and 3. Andre - in the right frame of mind (my opinion) - has the size and body type to be very strong at the 3. We just haven't seen it yet. I think we will - whether this year or the next.

    Still - the starters are going to be the three seniors, a junior, and the redshirt freshman. My thoughts.

  2. #342
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by jcastranio View Post
    PG - Tyler
    SG - Seth
    SF - Alex
    PF - Ryan
    C - Mason

    Cook for Tyler
    Sheed for Seth
    Josh for Ryan
    Marshall for Mason

    Okay - the big hole, obviously, is no one is "in" for Alex. This, I think, becomes situational. Three guards? Three bigs? Josh at the 3? Sheed at the 3?

    If Andre does play - he plays some 2 and 3. Andre - in the right frame of mind (my opinion) - has the size and body type to be very strong at the 3. We just haven't seen it yet. I think we will - whether this year or the next.

    Still - the starters are going to be the three seniors, a junior, and the redshirt freshman. My thoughts.
    Whatever happens, you won't see Josh at the 3. Just isn't going to happen. Josh does not have the ball handling skills, nor the shooting range to play on the perimeter. Even if he dropped 15 pounds (which actually I would like to see), he is not going to play the 3. I feel he could be a better PF if he dropped weight, and worked on quickness and agility. He has good touch around the rim, and needs to use quickness, and craftiness to score in the paint, rather than power. I think the experiment to bulk him up and have him be a banger, has not worked, and he needs to reshape his body. Hopefully Duke will go that route with Josh, and change his game.

    If Andre takes the RS, K will have to go to a 3 guard lineup when Alex is sitting, and I hope Tyler is on the floor as the 3 in that scenario, at least part of the time. Cook needs to be the primary PG, backed up by Seth, and Rasheed in my humble opinion. It will be interesting to see how many minutes Alex can handle. Would love for him to be able to play 30 mpg at the 3. That would mean K only having to go small for 10 mpg, and do so when he chooses to, vs having to play lots of 3 guard out of necessity.

  3. #343
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jcastranio View Post
    PG - Tyler
    SG - Seth
    SF - Alex
    PF - Ryan
    C - Mason

    Cook for Tyler
    Sheed for Seth
    Josh for Ryan
    Marshall for Mason

    Okay - the big hole, obviously, is no one is "in" for Alex. This, I think, becomes situational. Three guards? Three bigs? Josh at the 3? Sheed at the 3?

    If Andre does play - he plays some 2 and 3. Andre - in the right frame of mind (my opinion) - has the size and body type to be very strong at the 3. We just haven't seen it yet. I think we will - whether this year or the next.

    Still - the starters are going to be the three seniors, a junior, and the redshirt freshman. My thoughts.
    We simply cannot play Thornton significant minutes and hope for a better result next year. If we have to, move Curry to Point and bring in Sheed for defense. Basically every guard on our team is a better offensive point guard than Thornton. He is a non factor on offense which is pretty disastrous considering he has the ball in his hands most of the time. Last year teams just basically played off him and let him alone and our offensive completely stagnated.

    With Dawkins out I say:

    Curry/ Cook
    Sheed
    Murphy/ Thornton
    Kelly / Hairston
    Mason

    I think Hairston should get the most minutes off the bench. I'd like to see him play 20+ minutes subbing for both Mason and Kelly.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    We simply cannot play Thornton significant minutes and hope for a better result next year. If we have to, move Curry to Point and bring in Sheed for defense. Basically every guard on our team is a better offensive point guard than Thornton. He is a non factor on offense which is pretty disastrous considering he has the ball in his hands most of the time. Last year teams just basically played off him and let him alone and our offensive completely stagnated.

    With Dawkins out I say:

    Curry/ Cook
    Sheed
    Murphy/ Thornton
    Kelly / Hairston
    Mason

    I think Hairston should get the most minutes off the bench. I'd like to see him play 20+ minutes subbing for both Mason and Kelly.
    Looks like you are saying split the 80 MPG at combo to Sheed, Seth and Quinn (perhaps not 27 to each but PT in that order) with one of Seth/Quinn backing up Sheed when he needs a rest. I think coach K is more likely to go with Tyler in that senario to guard the PG even though Tyler is far from a SG.

    Same at the bigs with Kelly and Mason each playing about 30, perhaps 55 min total, Josh 20 and Marshall at most the other 5 betwwen Mason/MP2's 55 and the 60 they would sum to if both could average 30.

    Good of a guess as any until we see how advanced MP3 is since his red-shirt and whether anybody else who is eligible joins, or Dre does not red-shirt in Fall.

    As with all these lineups, without anybody new, as was the case with Kendall Marshall last year though at an even more critical position, if Alex is injured or is not the player everybody hopes he will be, Duke is cooked (no pun intended). To a lesser degree same is true if MP2 or Mason are unavailable for a long stretch since Miles to Josh/MP3 is a downgrade.

    Hate to see anyone not able to play but Duke now with only 9 scholarship players playing, at best could afford to lose one of the 4 guards, but none of the 3 bigs that start.

  5. #345

    Alex is a key element

    If Alex is not ready and/or very weak - we are a troubled top ten team.

    If Alex is solid (20 minutes, 6 pts -3 rebs guy)- we are a solid top ten team.

    If Alex is really good (28 minutes, 10-5 guy) - we are a title contender.

    Of course, more important than the points and rebounds is how he fits into the offensive and defensive "team" concept.

    Again - not a difference between greatness and disaster. Just between greatness and pretty darn good.

  6. #346
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cali

    Best Starting Lineup

    Starters:
    PG: Cook
    SG: Curry
    SF: Murphy
    PF: Kelly
    C: Mason

    Bench:
    PG: Thornton
    SG: Sheed
    SF:
    PF: Hairston
    C: Marshall

    I'm really concerned when Murphy needs a breather. SF was the deepest position last Saturday. Now within a week Gbinije tranfering, and Dawkins possible taking a redshirt, SF becomes the thinnest position. Looks like Sheed and Curry will have to slid over to the 3 when Murphy is on the bench.

    Or Possibly Hairston plays some at the SF spot. Which would present a bigger frontline with Mason, Kelly and Hairston in the game at the same time.

  7. #347
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post
    Starters:
    PG: Cook
    SG: Curry
    SF: Murphy
    PF: Kelly
    C: Mason

    Bench:
    PG: Thornton
    SG: Sheed
    SF:
    PF: Hairston
    C: Marshall

    I'm really concerned when Murphy needs a breather. SF was the deepest position last Saturday. Now within a week Gbinije tranfering, and Dawkins possible taking a redshirt, SF becomes the thinnest position. Looks like Sheed and Curry will have to slid over to the 3 when Murphy is on the bench.

    Or Possibly Hairston plays some at the SF spot. Which would present a bigger frontline with Mason, Kelly and Hairston in the game at the same time.
    If Dawkins redshirts and Jefferson chooses to go elsewhere, we'll see Sulaimon/Curry/Thornton filling in as the backup SF. Hairston isn't quick enough to play that position defensively, and he doesn't have the offensive game to play that position offensively.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    We simply cannot play Thornton significant minutes and hope for a better result next year.
    You should probably let K know this. Despite all his experience and accolades it seems he hasn't figured this out yet.

    Forgive me for the sarcasm, but I continue to be absolutely amazed by the outright lack of respect this kid gets.

  9. #349
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cali
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post

    I'm really concerned when Murphy needs a breather. SF was the deepest position last Saturday. Now within a week Gbinije tranfering, and Dawkins possible taking a redshirt, SF becomes the thinnest position. Looks like Sheed and Curry will have to slid over to the 3 when Murphy is on the bench.

    Or Possibly Hairston plays some at the SF spot. Which would present a bigger frontline with Mason, Kelly and Hairston in the game at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    If Dawkins redshirts and Jefferson chooses to go elsewhere, we'll see Sulaimon/Curry/Thornton filling in as the backup SF. Hairston isn't quick enough to play that position defensively, and he doesn't have the offensive game to play that position offensively.
    I mentioned that already, thanks.

  10. #350
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post
    I'm really concerned when Murphy needs a breather. SF was the deepest position last Saturday. Now within a week Gbinije tranfering, and Dawkins possible taking a redshirt, SF becomes the thinnest position. Looks like Sheed and Curry will have to slid over to the 3 when Murphy is on the bench.

    Or Possibly Hairston plays some at the SF spot. Which would present a bigger frontline with Mason, Kelly and Hairston in the game at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    If Dawkins redshirts and Jefferson chooses to go elsewhere, we'll see Sulaimon/Curry/Thornton filling in as the backup SF. Hairston isn't quick enough to play that position defensively, and he doesn't have the offensive game to play that position offensively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post
    I mentioned that already, thanks.
    Yes, you did. But you also mentioned the possibility of using Hairston at the SF spot. And that's what I was commenting on. My post should be read as "It will have to be scenario 1, not scenario 2." I was not suggesting some new lineup, just eliminating one of your possible lineups. So you merely bolded the wrong part, thanks.

  11. #351
    The secret weapon at SF defender

    Quinn Cook ‏ @QCook323

    It's amazing that I've been playing against my brother @travismckie since we were 9 years old. 10 years late http://instagr.am/p/J0N00uOgUI/

    Not.

  12. #352
    http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/...?sac=fo.sports

    This article was linked in another thread about Andre and I noticed this litte lineup tidbit at the bottom of the page.


    [SIZE]Possible lineup

    PG: Junior Tyler Thornton

    G: Senior Seth Curry

    G: Freshman Rasheed Sulaimon

    F: Senior Ryan Kelly

    F: Senior Mason Plumlee

    The outlook: The Blue Devils appear set with Kelly and Plumlee as the "bigs." It gets more interesting on the perimeter, where 6-8 forward Alex Murphy, who redshirted as a freshman, has the size to be a prototypical 3. That said, it'll be tough to keep the highly touted Sulaimon, a 6-3 sharpshooter, off the floor. At the point, Quinn Cook was able to show only flashes of his potential during an injury-plagued freshman season. When healthy, he's capable of being a defensive pest and more of an offensive threat than Thornton, who could get the early nod.[/SIZE]


    The author quoted Coach Collins about Dre but regarding the lineup is just says "A Possible Lineup" which it certainly is but I know a lot of us are hoping Alex can go and SF to give us some size instead of playing 3 guards again. I hope Sheed is good enough to start but I also hope we don't play a 3-guard lineup very often. Obviously if Dre plays next year it puts another guard in the mix at the 3 spot.
    Last edited by lotusland; 04-29-2012 at 07:43 PM. Reason: format

  13. #353
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/...?sac=fo.sports

    This article was linked in another thread about Andre and I noticed this litte lineup tidbit at the bottom of the page.


    [SIZE]Possible lineup

    PG: Junior Tyler Thornton

    G: Senior Seth Curry

    G: Freshman Rasheed Sulaimon

    F: Senior Ryan Kelly

    F: Senior Mason Plumlee

    The outlook: The Blue Devils appear set with Kelly and Plumlee as the "bigs." It gets more interesting on the perimeter, where 6-8 forward Alex Murphy, who redshirted as a freshman, has the size to be a prototypical 3. That said, it'll be tough to keep the highly touted Sulaimon, a 6-3 sharpshooter, off the floor. At the point, Quinn Cook was able to show only flashes of his potential during an injury-plagued freshman season. When healthy, he's capable of being a defensive pest and more of an offensive threat than Thornton, who could get the early nod.[/SIZE]


    The author quoted Coach Collins about Dre but regarding the lineup is just says "A Possible Lineup" which it certainly is but I know a lot of us are hoping Alex can go and SF to give us some size instead of playing 3 guards again. I hope Sheed is good enough to start but I also hope we don't play a 3-guard lineup very often. Obviously if Dre plays next year it puts another guard in the mix at the 3 spot.
    In the words of the other Newton (Greg) I will cringe if that is the starting perimeter. Murphy just has to start. I am ok if Rasheed bumps a vet, I just hope he does not bump Murphy.

    Seth is going to start come hell or high water, which I am fine with, but Rasheed needs to play the 1 or 2 and not the 3. Maybe a few minutes hear and there but not for long stretches hopefully.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    In the words of the other Newton (Greg) I will cringe if that is the starting perimeter. Murphy just has to start. I am ok if Rasheed bumps a vet, I just hope he does not bump Murphy.

    Seth is going to start come hell or high water, which I am fine with, but Rasheed needs to play the 1 or 2 and not the 3. Maybe a few minutes hear and there but not for long stretches hopefully.
    Well, if Andre sits out the season, I expect Rasheed or Tyler will play SF all the time that Alex sits. So if Alex plays 25 mpg, that means we'll see Rasheed or Tyler for 15 mpg at the "3." I don't see any alternative (I don't view Josh as a SF alternative), other than Andre deciding to play this coming season. So don't cringe too much because it's probably going to happen for at least 10 or 15 minutes a game.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Well, if Andre sits out the season, I expect Rasheed or Tyler will play SF all the time that Alex sits. So if Alex plays 25 mpg, that means we'll see Rasheed or Tyler for 15 mpg at the "3." I don't see any alternative (I don't view Josh as a SF alternative), other than Andre deciding to play this coming season. So don't cringe too much because it's probably going to happen for at least 10 or 15 minutes a game.
    I agree I just hope Murphy is good enough to go 25 mpg at 3 with Sheed and TT spelling him instead of the other way around. Jefferson, or transfers - Hood or Smith - could also be a factorat 3. I also agree that josh won't play on the wing. It will be interesting to see who gets more PT between Josh and MP3. Josh will move Ryan over to Center which I think he has the size to handle for a few MPG but he would be more comfy at the stretch 4 with MP3. I look forward to seeing MP2 and MP3 paired up occasionally as well.

  16. #356
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I agree I just hope Murphy is good enough to go 25 mpg at 3 with Sheed and TT spelling him instead of the other way around. Jefferson, or transfers - Hood or Smith - could also be a factorat 3. I also agree that josh won't play on the wing. It will be interesting to see who gets more PT between Josh and MP3. Josh will move Ryan over to Center which I think he has the size to handle for a few MPG but he would be more comfy at the stretch 4 with MP3. I look forward to seeing MP2 and MP3 paired up occasionally as well.
    Neither of the transfers you mentioned would be eligible to play next year. So neither will be a factor at SF in games (though they'd certainly help during practice). Jefferson is the only one who could realistically change the rotation next year (unless we find a grad student transfer, which seems unlikely). Otherwise, unless Dawkins plays we're going to be very undersized on the perimeter for at least 10-15 mpg.

    I'd be surprised if we see much of the Plumlees on the floor together. Mason isn't really well suited to play the PF spot (he's just not quick enough or good enough away from the basket for that spot). I don't think we'll see much of Kelly at C either unless Marshall isn't ready to play 10-15 mpg. My guess is we'll see Kelly and Mason playing 28-30 mpg and Marshall and Hairston playing 10-12 mpg, with Kelly and Hairston playing at the PF spot and the Plumlees splitting time at the C spot.

  17. #357

    You have to like the kid

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    You should probably let K know this. Despite all his experience and accolades it seems he hasn't figured this out yet.

    Forgive me for the sarcasm, but I continue to be absolutely amazed by the outright lack of respect this kid gets.
    There is no question that TT is a tough kid and a pesky defender who doesn't turn the ball over. Not to mention that anyone who has a nickname like the black gnat has my vote. On the other hand, he only shoots 38%, is not a good penetrator, and only averages 2 assists per game.

    If people are looking at Cook it's probably because Duke had some real offensive problems at the end of the year (no news there). If any of the guards could have shot effectively, penetrated and passed the ball off to an open shooter, or dropped an occasional dime we would have been much better off. Perhaps Cook could have helped in those areas, but it's unfair to single anyone out for a problem common to a number of players.

    I have no doubt that both point guards will play and contribute next year, but if the coaches are talking about Mason having a breakout year, then someone has to break down the defense and get the ball in his hands near the basket, much like Jason to Carlos a decade ago. Maybe it's just me, but I think Coach K is sending out some signals with these comments, although that's not a slight on anyone. In fact, no matter who's starting at the 1 and the 3, we should have better chemistry and a more predictable team, and that's something we should all look forward to.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Neither of the transfers you mentioned would be eligible to play next year. So neither will be a factor at SF in games (though they'd certainly help during practice). Jefferson is the only one who could realistically change the rotation next year (unless we find a grad student transfer, which seems unlikely). Otherwise, unless Dawkins plays we're going to be very undersized on the perimeter for at least 10-15 mpg.

    I'd be surprised if we see much of the Plumlees on the floor together. Mason isn't really well suited to play the PF spot (he's just not quick enough or good enough away from the basket for that spot). I don't think we'll see much of Kelly at C either unless Marshall isn't ready to play 10-15 mpg. My guess is we'll see Kelly and Mason playing 28-30 mpg and Marshall and Hairston playing 10-12 mpg, with Kelly and Hairston playing at the PF spot and the Plumlees splitting time at the C spot.
    Oh yeah I mentioned the transfers as an after thought and completely forgot about sitting out a year. I also agree with your assessment about the Josh and MP3 but I think that MP3 will be ready for 10-15 MPG is not at all a given. Whether he can hedge and rotate correctly will be the deciding factor and if Josh is better, even if only slightly, I can definitley imagine Duke playing more of a 3-man rotation with the bigs with Ryan moving to C when Josh plays and MP3 getting less than 5 MPG if he struggles on D. I don't see any problem with Mason playing 4 along with MP3 if Marshall is ready. To me that would be not that much different than MP1 and MP2 playing together which we saw regularly last year. How ready will Marshall be and how much will Josh improve will be interesting to watch because one may get stuck on the bench in the second half of the year when the rotation typically shrinks.

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