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  1. #321
    I agree with Big Pappa. Let's see what kind of player Cook is on defense next year before we potentially stick to an antiquated notion of his level of ability. For the record, I never thought he was as terrible this year as a lot of people made him out to be, with the exception of some notable plays that stick out in your mind, particularly since he didn't always play a whole lot. Cook has quick feet and seems tenacious; let's see how things go. It's not like any of the guards Duke ran out there this year were exactly John Havlicek.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I agree with Big Pappa. Let's see what kind of player Cook is on defense next year before we potentially stick to an antiquated notion of his level of ability. For the record, I never thought he was as terrible this year as a lot of people made him out to be, with the exception of some notable plays that stick out in your mind, particularly since he didn't always play a whole lot. Cook has quick feet and seems tenacious; let's see how things go. It's not like any of the guards Duke ran out there this year were exactly John Havlicek.
    It's not that I disagree or want Tyler to play over QC, I'm just pointing out the dilemma with Cook and Seth playing together. I thought Tyler did improve his on the ball defense quite a bit toward the end of the year and he did not seem to foul as much. With that said Cook appears shorter and very slight compared to Thornton. I don't know what their reach is but Thornton appears to have long arms for his size. He looks like he's all arms and legs with no trunk. I like Cook's potential but he was often woeful on defense. I mentioned before that he seemed like he tweaked his knee almost every time he played significant minutes and he appeared to hobble more on the defensive end than the offensive end to my eyes. I'm not sure why he's expected to improve his defense drastically but Thornton can't improve his offense. Anyway I hope we have a PG who is All ACC and Defensive POY and it really doesn't matter to me which one it is. K has to choose among their various limitations the same as last year but maybe works out differently. I'm all for it if it does

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Yeah but my post was actually in response to CDU's statement that TT was not a viable PG next year. My point was that whether he is "good enough" or not, he may be the best option that we have playing with Seth at the off-guard position. I probably give TT more credit than most but I don't think PG is likely to be an area of strength for Duke if Tyler is the primary option. The offense will probably run better with Cook at lead guard but our back court will be very small and not especially quick on defense. Tyler seems significantly longer to me than Cook and much stronger defensively.
    A lot can still change, depending on how good Sheed really is his first year, especially on defense, ditto for Alex, how consistent Dre is, whether Amile or Tony join etc.

    For this thread, let's assume the current complement.

    I think Duke's roster breaks down in 6 levels

    Tyler/Quinn

    Seth/Sheed

    Dre

    Alex

    Ryan/Josh

    MP2/MP3

    Among these guys, Coach K will go with his best 5 and not be overly concerned with positions.

    Most of Duke's qualiy wins last year were early in the season with Seth @ PG, Dre @ SG/SF, Rivers @ SF/SG with two bigs, though only beat KU thanks to Tyler heroics.

    To replace Austin it won't be one guy but more use of MP2, potentially some slashing from Alex and each senior takes on a bigger role as do possibly Sheed and Quinn.

    So if Sheed, Alex and Dre are more ready than Quinn/Tyler, you could see a senior laden lineup with a tradiitonal sized WF.

    PG - Seth backed up by Quinn

    SG - Dre (if coinsistent and confident) backed up by Sheed (Seth) - else possibly Sheed starts or Seth at SG and Quinn at PG

    WF - Alex backed up by Tyler (Dre) by default if no Amile

    PF - Ryan backed up by Josh (Alex)

    C - MP2 backed up by MP3 (Ryan)

    Tyler is a tough gutsy guy but if he plays 20 MPG, not a good sign for Duke. Tyler can certainly play energy defender at PG, SG or SF. Ditto for Josh at PF and third or fourth C and third WF if necessary.

  4. #324
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACCBBallFan View Post
    So if Sheed, Alex and Dre are more ready than Quinn/Tyler, you could see a senior laden lineup with a tradiitonal sized WF.

    PG - Seth backed up by Quinn

    SG - Dre (if coinsistent and confident) backed up by Sheed (Seth) - else possibly Sheed starts or Seth at SG and Quinn at PG

    WF - Alex backed up by Tyler (Dre) by default if no Amile

    PF - Ryan backed up by Josh (Alex)

    C - MP2 backed up by MP3 (Ryan)

    Tyler is a tough gutsy guy but if he plays 20 MPG, not a good sign for Duke. Tyler can certainly play energy defender at PG, SG or SF. Ditto for Josh at PF and third or fourth C and third WF if necessary.
    First, it's "SF" not "WF." And while you keep suggesting Dawkins as a SG, we just don't have the ballhandlers at PG to make that happen. I would be shocked if Coach K goes with Curry and Dawkins as the starting guards. The only possible scenario in which I could see Dawkins starting at SG would have been if Cook was so good at PG that we could get away with Dawkins' ballhandling limitations. But in that case, I still think Curry would start at SG instead of Dawkins, by virtue of having very good shooting touch AND much better ballhandling skills. I see virtually no chance that Dawkins starts at SG next year. It's either SF or bust for him.

  5. #325
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    First, it's "SF" not "WF."
    Does it really make a difference whether one person calls the position "small forward" and one person calls the position "wing forward"? Isn't it obvious that both of you are functionally talking about the same thing?
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    Does it really make a difference whether one person calls the position "small forward" and one person calls the position "wing forward"? Isn't it obvious that both of you are functionally talking about the same thing?
    Exactly, it's clear WF was not Wake Forest.

    I personally prefer WF over SF to describe a forward who plays on the wing, but have no objection to those who call them SF. Since the "S" in SG stands for shooting and the "S" in SF stands for small. that can cause some confusion.

    Even the term Small Forward is not descriptive of bigger players like Kyle Singler, Harrison Barnes, Milton Junnings and now Alex Murphy who are as tall or taller than many PF's.

    Mick Cronin uses the term in this link: http://www.buccaneersports.com/Bucca...ball/index.htm

    “Titus is a versatile wing forward who fits our style of play,” Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin said. “He has outstanding athletic ability and brings great physical toughness. He doesn’t mind battling bigger players for rebounds. He also has the ability to guard different positions and excels at making his teammates better.”

    A lot of recruting sites use it including RSCIHoops.com that also uses the term WG instead of SG for the off guard.

    A little closer to home, don't hold it against me that Ken Tysiac used it too - http://obsrecruiting.blogspot.com/20...s-to-duke.html

    Just semantics as pfrduke rightly notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    First, it's "SF" not "WF." And while you keep suggesting Dawkins as a SG, we just don't have the ballhandlers at PG to make that happen. I would be shocked if Coach K goes with Curry and Dawkins as the starting guards. The only possible scenario in which I could see Dawkins starting at SG would have been if Cook was so good at PG that we could get away with Dawkins' ballhandling limitations. But in that case, I still think Curry would start at SG instead of Dawkins, by virtue of having very good shooting touch AND much better ballhandling skills. I see virtually no chance that Dawkins starts at SG next year. It's either SF or bust for him.
    I agree with you Seth starts over Dre but there are other possible scenarios besides the one you suggest.

    The reason is not that Dre is such a great ballhandler, nor Seth for that matter.

    The reason would be that coach K starts his best 5 irregardless of position. He has said that Alex could very well be a four year starter at Duke. Apparently Gbinije was listenting but I digress.

    Mason, Ryan and Seth are 3 sure starters, and if Alex starts and Dre is the one of K's best 5, that lineup results even if Seth does not fit the pure definition of PG vis a vis Quinn.

    Dre does not fit any of the pure definitions since as you say he is not a strong ballhandler but sure can shoot. Maybe he's an SSF - Small Shooting forward, but if Alex is already a SF,then Dre would be described as he had always been until last year as a SG.

    If Sheed can play defense and is immediately effective it could be him instead of Dre at SG with Seth at PG and Alex at SF with Ryan and Mason is another scenario.

    If Quinn or Tyler is deemd one of the top 5, then Seth is the SG and a battle ensues between Alex, Dre, Sheed, Tyler (if not the PG) for who is the SF.

    I like Quinn, but I also like Dre and pretty sure I am really going to like Alex and Sheed too, but only 5 can start and only 2 spots are open after the seniors MP2, Ryan and Seth.

    It's up to Dre as a senior to show the consistency to earn that spot over Alex at SF or over everybody but Alex as a SG.

    Coach K likes Tyler a lot, MVP at banquet, et al, so my guess is Quinn and Sheed are a tad behind Alex, Dre and Tyler at this point (no PG pun intended) for who starts but they will all log plenty of PT. Assuming no additions, thay may be the top 8 with Josh and MP3 #9 and #10.

    Sheed is the top rated SG in his class and could offer comparable defensive intensity that Tyler does, giving him the nod over Tyler with better offense.

    Quinn is the only pure PG that is not a liability on Offense, as long as he is not one on Defense. Equally true Alex is the only pure SF. The question is whether these 2 can both keep Dre and Tyler and Sheed out of the starting lineup.
    Last edited by ACCBBallFan; 04-19-2012 at 10:52 AM. Reason: capitalize J in Josh

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    Does it really make a difference whether one person calls the position "small forward" and one person calls the position "wing forward"? Isn't it obvious that both of you are functionally talking about the same thing?
    It matters when 99% of the world (caveat: made up number) uses SF and not WF. We can't just start making up terms whenever we want, even if folks understand.

    Edit: it appears that at least a few folks use the term, so I apologize. It's not common lingo to me (or most on this board or in general conversation), so I prefer the alternative. But carry on as you see fit.

    I still don't see any way Dawkins plays major minutes at SG on this team. It doesn't matter what terminology you use (SSF, SF, WF, whatever). I just don't think he has the ballhandling skills to play that position unless we have an elite PG on the floor. None of Murphy, Kelly, and Mason are going to be primary ballhandlers/playmakers, so it's going to fall to the guards to handle the ball a lot. And that's not one of Dawkins' strengths.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by ACCBBallFan View Post

    The reason would be that coach K starts his best 5 irregardless of position.
    I think in the past Coach K had the luxury of doing that since many of his players had a high degree of versatility. Our current roster does not seem to have that. Could our players develop that over the summer? It's possible but we have been waiting a few years for some players to expand their game with little to show for it.

    As a side note, our five best players last year were MP1, MP2, Ryan, Seth and Austin. I don't know if that line-up ever played together let alone started.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by ACCBBallFan View Post
    The reason would be that coach K starts his best 5 irregardless of position.
    I agree with most of your reasoning, but personally I believe the above truism is overused among Duke fans. If our best five players were all 5'11", he'd still have to start a couple of big guys for defensive purposes. Similarly, if our best five players were all 7 footers, he'd still have to start a PG and probably a wing or two, both for offensive balance and also for defense. So it's not as simple as saying he starts his best five guys.

    Having said that, it doesn't make your reasoning wrong on Andre. I disagree with CDu's assertion that Andre's lack of handle disqualifies him for a spot at SG. What probably does disqualify him for a spot at SG, however, is the fact that we'll have four other guys who are smaller than Andre and deserving of rotation minutes. That situation, combined with the fact that we'll have minutes available at SF (or WF, if you prefer), would seem to suggest Andre should get most or all of his minutes at SF. As you point out in your previous post, if Seth slides over to PG, it would probably be Rasheed who plays SG alongside him, rather than Andre, with Rasheed defending the opposing PG and Seth defending the SG. If Andre is also on the floor with those guys, he'd defend the SF.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I agree with most of your reasoning, but personally I believe the above truism is overused among Duke fans. If our best five players were all 5'11", he'd still have to start a couple of big guys for defensive purposes. Similarly, if our best five players were all 7 footers, he'd still have to start a PG and probably a wing or two, both for offensive balance and also for defense. So it's not as simple as saying he starts his best five guys.

    Having said that, it doesn't make your reasoning wrong on Andre. I disagree with CDu's assertion that Andre's lack of handle disqualifies him for a spot at SG. What probably does disqualify him for a spot at SG, however, is the fact that we'll have four other guys who are smaller than Andre and deserving of rotation minutes. That situation, combined with the fact that we'll have minutes available at SF (or WF, if you prefer), would seem to suggest Andre should get most or all of his minutes at SF. As you point out in your previous post, if Seth slides over to PG, it would probably be Rasheed who plays SG alongside him, rather than Andre, with Rasheed defending the opposing PG and Seth defending the SG. If Andre is also on the floor with those guys, he'd defend the SF.
    Agreed on all points.

    Noone need feel the need to use ther term WF instead of SF for my benefit. I am perfectly happy with SF. Dre is the guard in a 3 guard set ad Alex is one of the forwards in a tradition one center, two forwards and two guards set.

    Also agree with you and the previous poster that there must usually be at least two bigs and at least two guards/wings, with the fifth being either a big or a guard. So not literally the top 5 mantra for coach K.

    I don't necessarily agree that the three bigs last year were all ahead of Tyler and Dre in overall effectiveness, but do agree that coach K started his best two bigs at the moment with that complement, but based also on the opponent.

    It's not the only guage but in the 26 games where I tracked +/- starting with the Davidson game, after I threw out the high and the low as anamolies, here was the order:

    ~Hi/Lo Duke +/- Sum 26 Min Max

    242 Austin Rivers, G 263 -24 45

    200 Ryan Kelly, F 213 -17 30

    160 Seth Curry, G 175 -14 29

    151 Mason Plumlee, F 150 -22 21

    122 Andre Dawkins, G 122 -27 27

    116 Tyler Thornton, G 147 -04 35

    114 Miles Plumlee, F 132 -08 26

    100 Quinn Cook, G 105 -13 18

    022 Josh Hairston, F 032 -08 18

    000 Michael Gbinije, G-F 006 -06 12


    The order would vary slightly if you did not discard the high and the low, putting Tyler and then Miles ahead of Dre. Tyler BTW was co-leader with Austin most of the season even ahead of Ryan and then fell off at end. Miles was more effective than Mason at beginning of year in +/- but as season progressed Mason surpassed him.

    As Kedsy says, with the 5 guards all deserving PT, besides Dre for his slightly extra height and hops, there is Tyler for his toughness and strength that could defend the SF. They certainly fit that definition of small for that position. In Tyler's case may be better to forego Offense for sake of Defense at SF than at PG, but don't try to tell that to KU after his heroics in that game.

  11. #331
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    It matters when 99% of the world (caveat: made up number) uses SF and not WF. We can't just start making up terms whenever we want, even if folks understand.

    Edit: it appears that at least a few folks use the term, so I apologize. It's not common lingo to me (or most on this board or in general conversation), so I prefer the alternative. But carry on as you see fit.
    I have been fighting a similar battle against a term that Calipari seems to have invented: the "dribble drive." For the life of me, I cannot seem to figure out how a "dribble drive" is any different from a good-old-fashioned drive. I've had an even more difficult time figuring out what the dribble-drive "offense" actually is, unless it means "let players with superior talent do what they do." But, hey, people keep on using the term, so I guess I'm the one that is going to have to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I agree with most of your reasoning, but personally I believe the above truism is overused among Duke fans. If our best five players were all 5'11", he'd still have to start a couple of big guys for defensive purposes. Similarly, if our best five players were all 7 footers, he'd still have to start a PG and probably a wing or two, both for offensive balance and also for defense. So it's not as simple as saying he starts his best five guys.
    I'm not sure why the meme took the form that it did either. Rather than saying that "Coach K plays his five best players, regardless of position," maybe we should say that "Coach K plays the five players that make the best team, regardless of position." That would definitely fit much better with another popular Coach K meme: one fist versus five fingers. At least, that's my take.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by ACCBBallFan View Post
    I don't necessarily agree that the three bigs last year were all ahead of Tyler and Dre in overall effectiveness, but do agree that coach K started his best two bigs at the moment with that complement, but based also on the opponent.
    Player PER ▾ TS% eFG% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS
    Ryan Kelly 23.2 .597 .527 11.8 8.6 1.7 3.5 12.3 124.1 99.2 2.3 1.8 4.0
    Mason Plumlee 23.1 .568 .572 18.4 11.7 1.6 5.2 18.2 111.0 94.7 1.9 3.0 4.9
    Miles Plumlee 21.8 .621 .610 19.8 5.1 1.5 4.2 18.7 121.1 96.1 1.6 2.0 3.5
    Quinn Cook 19.4 .524 .466 5.0 31.5 2.1 0.5 11.4 120.9 103.4 0.5 0.5 1.1
    Seth Curry 18.6 .573 .515 4.9 16.2 2.5 0.6 15.0 115.5 103.1 2.4 1.3 3.7
    Austin Rivers 16.9 .538 .505 5.8 13.0 1.7 0.1 13.9 107.8 104.0 2.1 1.1 3.2
    Andre Dawkins 13.4 .566 .546 5.2 5.1 1.1 0.2 9.7 115.9 105.5 1.4 0.6 2.0
    Josh Hairston 11.1 .485 .449 9.7 4.0 1.0 1.5 15.7 100.6 104.7 0.1 0.3 0.4
    Tyler Thornton 10.1 .557 .510 5.0 16.5 2.5 0.0 21.5 114.0 102.8 0.7 0.9 1.6

    Ranking by PER, OWS, DWS, and WS, Ryan, MP1, MP2, Seth and Austin lead the team in overall effectiveness. I know Quinn has a higher PER than Seth or Austin but given the vast difference in minutes played I chose to exclude him.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    I'm not sure why the meme took the form that it did either. Rather than saying that "Coach K plays his five best players, regardless of position," maybe we should say that "Coach K plays the five players that make the best team, regardless of position." That would definitely fit much better with another popular Coach K meme: one fist versus five fingers. At least, that's my take.
    I agree with this. But once you make the statement accurate, you can no longer use it to predict who will play.

  14. #334

    Small forward Kelly

    Consider that Dawkins does redshirt and we get Tony Parker. What do you guys think of the possibility that Ryan Kelly plays the 3? It seems outrageous but analyze the pros and cons and the positions that others would play.

    All we have at small forward is Murphy, possibly Hairston, but he's got the muscle for a power forward. At the power forward, we have Ryan, Hairston, Tony, and Mason can fulfill that role too. Out of those people, Kelly would be the best choice to switch over to the small forward because of his 3-pointers, free throws, and relatively light body (compared to Hairston or Tony). He would be great for an offensive mismatch but he may be too slow in defense. But then again, the only alternatives are Hairston, who is probably even slower, or a shooting guard, which makes us very short.

  15. #335
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    I don't think there's any way unless we go to a zone. Plus, our better players our guards; so it wouldn't make much sense to effectively sub in a big man for Murphy when he goes out.

    I think our lineup with Murphy out would look very similar to this year's starting lineup, except with Sulaimon instead of Rivers (they're basically the exact same effective size), and either Sulaimon or Thornton guarding the SF. It's disappointing that we'll have to play undersized for stretches again; K says we want to get bigger and longer, but we will likely lose our three biggest/longest wings from last season. However, I think Sulaimon could be a pesky defender at the SF spot; he's very good at sneaking steals from slower, unsuspecting players, so as long as he rebounds decently, I think it could be okay.

    But basically... it all boils down to the fact that Murphy better be ready to be a 30+ mpg pillar of next year's team.

  16. #336
    Unfortunately Duke's two most experienced and best scorers returning at wings, Dawkins and Curry, appear to be the worst perimeter defenders in the backcourt if the reports on Sulaimon are correct. For some reason Curry's defensive stance doesn't look wide enough and easy to drive by but that's just my observation.

    Mason and Ryan will obviously start and I suspect Marshall will get major minutes backing them up because he will be the heir apparent big (barring a major recruit) with Josh cleaning up the rest, but again I speculate.

    Then I believe with the pre-season performance and comments from K that Alex will start at the three but maybe he will simply split minutes with Dawkins.

    Historically, K has given the nod to the imcumbent (except in the case of Paulus who was injured) so Curry should start at the two but I would not be surprised to see Sulaimon, who is bigger and has a better defensive rep, to get more of the minutes at two as the season goes on.

    As everyone else alluded to, Coach K really likes Tyler's leadership and most likely defense because Duke has also historically always put a point guard stopper in the lineup to compliment scorers. This might be bad news for Cook because, if this is the case, he won't start until his senior year.

    Peculiar that his might be the first team in memory where every player exclusively plays only one position on the floor but Kelly will most likely play a little center and Curry rare point guard minutes at the end. Then again at the angst of Thornton and Cook, Sulaimon's defense might be complimentary to making Curry more palatable at the point.

  17. #337

    Tyler and Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by CALVET View Post
    Unfortunately Duke's two most experienced and best scorers returning at wings, Dawkins and Curry, appear to be the worst perimeter defenders in the backcourt if the reports on Sulaimon are correct. For some reason Curry's defensive stance doesn't look wide enough and easy to drive by but that's just my observation.

    Mason and Ryan will obviously start and I suspect Marshall will get major minutes backing them up because he will be the heir apparent big (barring a major recruit) with Josh cleaning up the rest, but again I speculate.

    Then I believe with the pre-season performance and comments from K that Alex will start at the three but maybe he will simply split minutes with Dawkins.

    Historically, K has given the nod to the imcumbent (except in the case of Paulus who was injured) so Curry should start at the two but I would not be surprised to see Sulaimon, who is bigger and has a better defensive rep, to get more of the minutes at two as the season goes on.

    As everyone else alluded to, Coach K really likes Tyler's leadership and most likely defense because Duke has also historically always put a point guard stopper in the lineup to compliment scorers. This might be bad news for Cook because, if this is the case, he won't start until his senior year.

    Peculiar that his might be the first team in memory where every player exclusively plays only one position on the floor but Kelly will most likely play a little center and Curry rare point guard minutes at the end. Then again at the angst of Thornton and Cook, Sulaimon's defense might be complimentary to making Curry more palatable at the point.
    Tyler still fouls at a high rate. Unless he cuts that down significantly, Quinn will get a lot of PT, even if coach K were to favor Tyler because of his defense.

  18. #338
    It's a good thing K likes Thornton, to read these boards he has very little other redeeming qualities, lol. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

    As to the previous poster, does he really still foul at a high rate? I always felt like he fouled alot early because it was what K was asking of him. Come in off the bench and play high intensity. I felt like he slowed down once he got in the starting position cause he knew what was being asked of him. But perhaps I'm wrong. I'm sure someone has the statistics on it.

    That being said, everyone is talking about the improvement of Cook this summer, but I'm just as interested to see what Thornton improves. I think it's fair to say Cook is stronger offensively and Thornton defensively and neither will probably ever be the equivalent of the other. So I'm hoping they both improve and we have two good options at PG where now so many are concerned of having none. In fact I had hoped we would have that this year, but Cook (probably due to lingering injuries) never could provide consistently.

    I see this squad as very similar to last year (pretty apparent after losing and gaining so little). Another year of experience, still a possible weakness at SF, different freshman guard, and different Plumlee, but I'm hoping between Thornton and Cook PG play should be stronger.

  19. #339
    I adjusted your post to reflect Dre likely red-shirting ...

    Quote Originally Posted by CALVET View Post
    Unfortunately Duke's most experienced and best scorer returning at wing, Curry, appears to be the worst perimeter defenders in the backcourt if the reports on Sulaimon are correct. For some reason Curry's defensive stance doesn't look wide enough and easy to drive by but that's just my observation.

    Mason and Ryan will obviously start and I suspect Marshall will get major minutes backing them up because he will be the heir apparent big (barring a major recruit) with Josh cleaning up the rest, but again I speculate.

    Then I believe with the pre-season performance and comments from K that Alex will start at the three.

    Historically, K has given the nod to the imcumbent (except in the case of Paulus who was injured) so Curry should start at the two but I would not be surprised to see Sulaimon, who is bigger and has a better defensive rep, to get more of the minutes at two as the season goes on.

    As everyone else alluded to, Coach K really likes Tyler's leadership and most likely defense because Duke has also historically always put a point guard stopper in the lineup to complement scorers. This might be bad news for Cook because, if this is the case, he won't start until his senior year.

    Peculiar that his might be the first team in memory where every player exclusively plays only one position on the floor but Kelly will most likely play a little center and Curry rare point guard minutes at the end. Then again at the angst of Thornton and Cook, Sulaimon's defense might be complementary to making Curry more palatable at the point.
    Assuming no new entrants for purposes of this thread, I pretty much agree with you except the part about no one playing multiple positions. This of course is after you posted we found about about Dre's sabbatical. So Tyler may very well play both the PG defender as starter or as backup, plus the backup SF defender positions.

    Seth for reasons you cited should be paired more with Sheed or Tyler than with Quinn and they may alternate as the best offensive/worst defensive PG role with the SG be it Sheed or Tyler actually guarding the opponent's PG with their man being the SG.

    I see the primary 7 now being Seth, (Sheed/Tyler), Alex, Ryan and MP2 starting backed up by Quinn for his offense and (Tyler/Sheed) for defense depending on the need versus that opponent which is #6 vs. #7 with Josh #8 getting some burn vs bigger teams and MP3 #9 also more PT vs big teams in which case Alex does not play as much in a PF backup role.

    PG - Seth/Quinn for Offense at PG, but defending the SG but too small to be paired together very often the way many are suggesting (Quinn-Seth-Alex-Ryan-MP2)

    SG - Sheed/Tyler guarding the PG, with Sheed the more explosive Offensive combo guard of the two - stated differently always have at least one of Sheed/Tyler for defensive at a guard spot be it PG, SG or SF in 3 guard set. in whch case both Sheed andTyler with [Quinn or Seth] guarding the worst offensive wing player

    SF - Alex/Tyler as needed to give Alex a rest by default unless Duke gets a newbie and can transform Josh if necessary

    PF - Ryan/ Josh or Alex or MP2 when his bro is C

    C - MP2/ MP3 or Ryan depending on how ready MP3 is after being a red-shirt

    To really crank up the defense my see Tyler-Sheed-Alex-(Ryan or Josh)-MP2 some.

    Of all the guards, Sheed is one most likely to take up slack left by Austin's departure hopefully by fitting in rather than dominating as Austin was often asked to or chose to do. If he's not ready to start, then Tyler again starts with Seth-Alex-Ryan-Josh.

    Having Quinn and Seth paired to dominate a bunch of OOC and weaker ACC teams is fool's gold that will cost Duke once they get to the NCAAT. Coach K knows what he has with Tyler on Defense and if Sheed is as good on both Offense and Defense as advertised needs to invest time in him early. His extra size and quickness will make a big difference over the Quinn/Seth duo.
    Last edited by ACCBBallFan; 04-21-2012 at 08:58 PM.

  20. #340
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    Well a few things have changed since I posted this so I shall redo it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    Nolan did not start and got very little playing time his freshmen year so I doubt Rasheed does as well baring injury or a big funk from Andre.




    If we gain nobody and keep Mason:

    Tyler- Quinn
    Seth- Andre
    Alex-Andre
    Ryan- Alex
    Mason- Ryan

    Spot minutes- Gbiniji, Marshall, Rasheed

    Later in the year (same scenario):

    Quinn- Tyler
    Seth- Andre/Rasheed
    Alex- Andre
    Ryan- Alex
    Mason- Ryan

    If Andre gets in a funk I do not think he loses his spot but does give up more mins.

    Tyler- Quinn
    Seth- Sheed
    Alex-Sheed
    Ryan- Alex
    Mason- Ryan

    Spot minutes- Marshall/Josh


    End of year I would just switch Tyler and Quinn

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