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  1. #1

    Premature speculation on next season's starting lineup

    PG: Cook (the best possible thing to happen is Quinn to develop and win the job)
    SG: Curry (Seth will start I think this is where)
    SF: Murphy (has the size and skills; unless Andre buckles down and earns the position)
    PF: Kelly (could have a big year; the ultimate pick and pop big)
    C: MP2 (if he returns another senior poised for a monster year)

    BENCH:
    G: Thornton (experience, toughness, defense)
    Sulaimon (a talented defender who can make the three)
    Dawkins (all or nothing player who is unstoppable when he is on from behind the arc)
    SF:Gbinije (great athelete and potential lock down stopper)
    PF: Hairston (plays hard and gives great effort; undersized but is tough)
    C: MP3 (legit seven footer: rebounds and shot blocking; great athlete; best Plumlee yet?)

    I also expect to some three gaurd looks of course with Cook/Thornton; Curry; Sulaimon/Dawkins;
    Murphy/Kelly/Hairston/Gbinije; MP1/Kelly/MP3

    Even if we do not sign another player or bring in a transfer, I really like the way the roster currently stands. Especially so if Mason stays.

    GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Newton_14; 04-05-2012 at 08:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesfrommaiden View Post
    PG: Cook (the best possible thing to happen is Quinn to develop and win the job)
    SG: Curry (Seth will start I think this is where)
    SF: Murphy (has the size and skills; unless Andre buckles down and earns the position)
    PF: Kelly (could have a big year; the ultimate pick and pop big)
    C: MP3 (if he returns another senior poised for a monster year)

    BENCH:
    G: Thornton (experience, toughness, defense)
    Sulaimon (a talented defender who can make the three)
    Dawkins (all or nothing player who is unstoppable when he is on from behind the arc)
    SF:Gbinije (great athelete and potential lock down stopper)
    PF: Hairston (plays hard and gives great effort; undersized but is tough)
    C: MP3 (legit seven footer: rebounds and shot blocking; great athlete; best Plumlee yet?)

    I also expect to some three gaurd looks of course with Cook/Thornton; Curry; Sulaimon/Dawkins;
    Murphy/Kelly/Hairston/Gbinije; MP1/Kelly/MP3

    Even if we do not sign another player or bring in a transfer, I really like the way the roster currently stands. Especially so if Mason stays.

    GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If Sulaimon is athletic and a good defender, he'll work his way in somehow. If he is truly, as some have speculated, "Nolan-like", why would we NOT want him starting? Hasn't he moved up to Top 10 range as far as incoming Freshmen?

  3. #3

    Good point...

    Quote Originally Posted by slower View Post
    If Sulaimon is athletic and a good defender, he'll work his way in somehow. If he is truly, as some have speculated, "Nolan-like", why would we NOT want him starting? Hasn't he moved up to Top 10 range as far as incoming Freshmen?
    It is possible of course. I just gave Alex the nod to start since he has been here for a year already. It would be great for the team if Sulaimon is that good to make the starting five. It is just my humble opinion. Rasheed will get plenty of minutes either way. It is great we can debate about who is will start between these talented young men.


    GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by slower View Post
    If Sulaimon is athletic and a good defender, he'll work his way in somehow. If he is truly, as some have speculated, "Nolan-like", why would we NOT want him starting? Hasn't he moved up to Top 10 range as far as incoming Freshmen?
    Nolan didn't start his Fr. year either. If he were to start alongside Seth and Cook or Thornton, then we'd actually be smaller than we were this past season. i don't think anyone is clamoring for that. Would you start a Fr. above either Curry (Sr.) or one of our only 2 PGs? I for one don't think that makes any sense.
    Hopefully he will work his way in somehow, but unless he is just light-years ahead of most Fr., i don't see any reason to think he'll start above our leading returning scorer. As athletic and as good of a player as he was as a Fr., even Corey Maggette didn't start (by this i mean a significant fraction of the games), and he was/is 6'6 and BUFF.

  5. #5

    i agree

    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Nolan didn't start his Fr. year either. If he were to start alongside Seth and Cook or Thornton, then we'd actually be smaller than we were this past season. i don't think anyone is clamoring for that. Would you start a Fr. above either Curry (Sr.) or one of our only 2 PGs? I for one don't think that makes any sense.
    Hopefully he will work his way in somehow, but unless he is just light-years ahead of most Fr., i don't see any reason to think he'll start above our leading returning scorer. As athletic and as good of a player as he was as a Fr., even Corey Maggette didn't start (by this i mean a significant fraction of the games), and he was/is 6'6 and BUFF.
    That is what I was thinking when I made the post. We need the size at that position and Alex also has the skill. Don't forget Silent G is going to see his minutes at the three as well.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Charlotte, NC
    PG - Cook
    SG - Suliamon
    SF - Murphy or G
    PF - Kelly
    C - Mason

    Curry should be the first sub, with a rotation of G/Murphy, Tyler and MP3. Curry could thrive in this role and provide instant offense with a second group that would need some firepower given Tyler's lack of O

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Nolan didn't start his Fr. year either. If he were to start alongside Seth and Cook or Thornton, then we'd actually be smaller than we were this past season. i don't think anyone is clamoring for that. Would you start a Fr. above either Curry (Sr.) or one of our only 2 PGs? I for one don't think that makes any sense.
    Hopefully he will work his way in somehow, but unless he is just light-years ahead of most Fr., i don't see any reason to think he'll start above our leading returning scorer. As athletic and as good of a player as he was as a Fr., even Corey Maggette didn't start (by this i mean a significant fraction of the games), and he was/is 6'6 and BUFF.
    I would hope that Sheed finds his way into the starting SG spot at some point in the season. I think we've seen what Seth can do already and to be honest, I think he's near his ceiling. He's a solid college guard but not very quick or explosive. He's already been in college for 4 years now and I doubt he'll make a dramatic improvement over the summer. No knock on Seth. He's just limited physically in certain ways.
    On the other hand, Sheed seems to have all the tools to become a star and the sooner we get him playing time against real competition, the faster he'll realize his potential. I'd rather play the younger guys with more potential and take some lumps early in the season if it gives us a better chance to win at the end of the year. A lineup of Cook, Sheed, Murphy, Kelly, and either Plumlee could become a pretty potent group by the end of the season. And having Tyler, Seth, Andre, Mike, and Josh off the bench makes us a very deep squad.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesfrommaiden View Post
    That is what I was thinking when I made the post. We need the size at that position and Alex also has the skill. Don't forget Silent G is going to see his minutes at the three as well.
    Hey, I was thinking Sulaimon at the 2, not the 3. If he's as good as advertised, then he can fight Cook and Curry for starter's minutes. We shall see. If Murphy is for real, that would solve a lot of issues. I'm just not sold on Silent G, based on what I saw this year.

  9. #9
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    Sep 2008
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I think we've seen what Seth can do already and to be honest, I think he's near his ceiling.
    Even if true, that "ceiling" is an All-ACC player. Why would you want to bench him?


    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I'd rather play the younger guys with more potential and take some lumps early in the season if it gives us a better chance to win at the end of the year.
    A lot of people say this, but (a) I doubt they really mean it -- let us lose three or four games before January 1 and watch the fanbase explode -- and (b) losing games early probably won't give us a better chance to win at the end of the year, if for no other reason than we'd have a much lower seed in the NCAA tournament and, despite what some people seem to think, the lower your seed the less likely you are to win a lot of NCAAT games.

    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    And having Tyler, Seth, Andre, Mike, and Josh off the bench makes us a very deep squad.
    Well, it would, except only two (or at most three) of those guys would be getting meaningful minutes by the end of the year.

    If Mason doesn't come back and we get nobody, we still have 10 players worthy of good minutes but only 7 or 8 will get them. If Mason comes back, that means three or four worthy players are going to sit. If we get one or two newcomers, the numbers go up to 5 or 6 really good players rarely seeing the court. In that situation, I wouldn't be so quick to start guys with "more potential" at the expense of top quality experienced players. And I don't think Coach K will be, either.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Boston, MA
    If Mason stays, and we don't get anyone else, we'll be fine and up to typical Duke standards.
    If Mason leaves, we're going to have LOTS of questions and may be in trouble. A "down" year by Duke standards.
    Without Mason, we have a shortage of NBA talent. A lot of possibles, but no definite draft picks.
    The way recruiting has gone this year, Mason's return is crucial for the team. Sure you can say "oh we have Alex and Marshall coming in as RS freshmen, so it's like we recruited them for this year." But then that means last year's recruiting class is pretty sorry, contributing only Quinn and Mike to this year, who themselves are still unknowns given injury (Quinn) and sickness (Mike).

    Definite:
    none

    Possibles: And a lot of these are VERY questionable since we've never seen them play.
    Rasheed - if he turns out to be like Nolan, as many describe. No college experience.
    Marshall - if he plays like an athletic big man. No college experience.
    Ryan - if he can play consistently well and not Andre (disappear) every other game
    Alex - if he becomes a Singler/Dunleavy-type player. Versatile, good athlete. No college experience.
    Mike - if he can put it all together, athleticism is there. Essentially no college experience.
    Cook - if he can fully recover from injury, play defense, and get stronger. Has a good handle and court vision, but so far hasn't demonstrated the explosiveness needed to overcome size limitations in the NBA.

    Unlikely:
    Seth - lack of size, athleticism, and versatility. 5th year senior, so ceiling most likely reached.
    Dre - one-trick pony, no handle, going to be a 4th year senior.
    Josh - almost in the no chance category, but hasn't really been given the opportunity to shine.

    No chance:
    Tyler

    If we lose Mason and don't pick up any recruits (which would constitute a huge recruiting failure by K since there were supposed to be so many post targets in this year's class - like everyone on here said), we will face huge questions next year. And we may be putting teams out on the court with no known preseason NBA talent. Even 2010 had Kyle.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    To illustrate the silliness of this thread (and I love silly) here's how my starting 5 looks right now.
    corona_beer_sunset.jpg

    I'll have changed my opinion (and my beer) after K gets back with another successful Olympic trip. At least then I'll know who's playing.
    Mmmm, BBQ!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by duke09hms View Post
    If we lose Mason and don't pick up any recruits (which would constitute a huge recruiting failure by K since there were supposed to be so many post targets in this year's class - like everyone on here said), we will face huge questions next year. And we may be putting teams out on the court with no known preseason NBA talent. Even 2010 had Kyle.
    And yet, Jon got invited to camp(s), and only didn't stick around cuz of a freak eye injury. Lance is now in the NBA, and has even started a few games. Nolan Smith was a 1st round pick (late) in the NBA. The jury is still out on whether Miles is gonna get drafted/undrafted invite to camp. Mason looks like he'll play in the NBA someday (barring injury). Ryan Kelly, maybe (not). Dawkins, probably not.
    Kyle will probably be given a chance to play when he decides to come back from Spain.
    Your assertion is weak, given the fact that several players on that team did in fact make it to the NBA and/or still hold on to the chance that they might, and that team won the title. And you're down on this team for what reason?

  13. #13
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    And yet, Jon got invited to camp(s), and only didn't stick around cuz of a freak eye injury. Lance is now in the NBA, and has even started a few games. Nolan Smith was a 1st round pick (late) in the NBA. The jury is still out on whether Miles is gonna get drafted/undrafted invite to camp. Mason looks like he'll play in the NBA someday (barring injury). Ryan Kelly, maybe (not). Dawkins, probably not.
    Kyle will probably be given a chance to play when he decides to come back from Spain.
    Your assertion is weak, given the fact that several players on that team did in fact make it to the NBA and/or still hold on to the chance that they might, and that team won the title. And you're down on this team for what reason?
    Don't be so defensive. I'm well aware of 2010's NBA achievements and very proud of them. I used 2010 as an example since in that preseason, many were saying it was one of the least talented teams in Duke history. Well at least 2010 had Kyle, who was known to be a sure-fire NBA player even before the season started.

    If Mason leaves, the 2013 team will have even more questions in the preseason about talent and lack of sure-fire NBA draft picks. 2013 may well answer those questions just as well as 2010 did with a legendary season and multiple NBA players, but for now we're starting out with even more questions and arguably even less talent.

  14. #14
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    Irvine, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Even if true, that "ceiling" is an All-ACC player. Why would you want to bench him?


    Seth may be 2nd/3rd team All-ACC caliber, but I just think Sheed could be ACC player of the year caliber given time and experience. Who knows how fast that could happen? Might be after a year, might be after 4 years. But would anyone really argue that Seth's ceiling is anywhere close to Sheed's?



    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    A lot of people say this, but (a) I doubt they really mean it -- let us lose three or four games before January 1 and watch the fanbase explode -- and (b) losing games early probably won't give us a better chance to win at the end of the year, if for no other reason than we'd have a much lower seed in the NCAA tournament and, despite what some people seem to think, the lower your seed the less likely you are to win a lot of NCAAT games.
    Losing games in and of itself won't make us better but playing certain guys early and more minutes might. I agree with your argument about seeding but how you finish the season also matters. Plus, if your team is better in March, your chances of advancing in the NCAAT is better. I'd rather be a better team, peaking going into the NCAAT and face slightly stronger teams than just accept a safer lineup. Sometimes a higher seed doesn't really save you, anyways, like this year.
    And I don't really think we have the type of unreasonable, crazy fan base that you see at some other programs. Besides, coach K is safe for as long as he wants to coach. Who cares how the fans react? The point is win championships!
    Last edited by pfrduke; 04-05-2012 at 08:22 PM. Reason: fix quote tags

  15. #15
    Thornton
    Curry
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Kelly


    I don't particularly like it, but if our roster stays the same (after losing Mason, hopefully that doesn't happen) but I think this is probably going to be the line-up.

    If that is indeed the line-up, K is going to absolutely want Thornton on the floor to start games to give some semblance of vocal leadership, unless Quinn improves leaps and bounds, possible, over the summer.

  16. #16
    However, if Mason stays, I think the line-up is as follows:

    Thornton
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Kelly
    Mason

    I understand that Curry is an All-ACC player but I honestly feel he would be significantly more effective as a 6th man. He's a good shooter and crafty, and despite his advances, I still find him a liability on defense. I also think it would be better for him to not be the focal point offensively, but we'll see, it'd be hard to put him on the bench.

    I think that Thornton will start. He's a physical albeit relatively slow point defender who is kind of a liability on offense. However, what I think we need him to do, is one of the few things that can be improved in an off season. Post entry passing, and spot of shooting. As I said before, K loves what this kid brings to the table, and I think he'll start him.

    Murphy started in the first exhibition game, he can't have gotten worse since then, and he presents at least a matchup problem for other teams. Those two things in and of themselves warrant a starting spot at the 3 or 4 depending on Mason's stature.

    Rasheed Sulaimon brings something else to the table from the rest of our guards, and I think that his abilities are will be developed enough by the time the season begins to start.

    Kelly and Mason, enough said.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post

    Seth may be 2nd/3rd team All-ACC caliber, but I just think Sheed could be ACC player of the year caliber given time and experience. Who knows how fast that could happen? Might be after a year, might be after 4 years. But would anyone really argue that Seth's ceiling is anywhere close to Sheed's?
    We've never seen Sulaimon play against college competition, let alone ACC. We don't have a reasonable way of comparing his ceiling against Curry's. That being said, the relevant comparison should be Curry's ceiling vs. Sulaimon's ceiling next season. Not period, not "given time and experience," over the course of the next ~360 days. And given that Seth was already All-ACC caliber this past season and is only likely to improve, I think it's a pretty safe bet that his ceiling next season is not just "anywhere close" to Sulaimon's, it's much higher. I will eat my hat (and, admittedly, do so gladly) if Sulaimon makes any of the all-ACC teams or even honorable mention. I'll eat your hat too if he's ACC player of the year.

    A more global point, this board (and, to be fair, fans all over the place), suffers from a serious case of shiny-new-thing-ism. We assume everyone who we haven't seen will be the best he can be, because we haven't had time to dissect his flaws closely. By contrast, we've had exhaustive discussions of the various shortcomings of people we have seen play, so we don't give them the credit that their achievements, skills, and talent deserve.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    However, if Mason stays, I think the line-up is as follows:

    Thornton
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Kelly
    Mason

    I understand that Curry is an All-ACC player but I honestly feel he would be significantly more effective as a 6th man. He's a good shooter and crafty, and despite his advances, I still find him a liability on defense. I also think it would be better for him to not be the focal point offensively, but we'll see, it'd be hard to put him on the bench.

    I think that Thornton will start. He's a physical albeit relatively slow point defender who is kind of a liability on offense. However, what I think we need him to do, is one of the few things that can be improved in an off season. Post entry passing, and spot of shooting. As I said before, K loves what this kid brings to the table, and I think he'll start him.

    Murphy started in the first exhibition game, he can't have gotten worse since then, and he presents at least a matchup problem for other teams. Those two things in and of themselves warrant a starting spot at the 3 or 4 depending on Mason's stature.

    Rasheed Sulaimon brings something else to the table from the rest of our guards, and I think that his abilities are will be developed enough by the time the season begins to start.

    Kelly and Mason, enough said.
    I think Mason will come back. And if I had to guess the starting lineup next year (assuming we don't add anyone else), I'd say:

    Thornton/Cook
    Curry
    Murphy/Gbinije
    Kelly
    Mason

    I think Sulaimon will come off the bench. I don't know who will start at PG and I don't know who will start at SF, but I'd be pretty surprised if Curry, Kelly, and Mason aren't starting. And I'm one of the bigger proponents of Sulaimon, who I think has a very bright future at Duke and will make an impact starting next year.

  19. #19

    in K we trust

    I'm looking forward to seeing how our Koaching staff taKes inventory and adapts to the talent on the team. Personally, I would be eKstatic if MP2 comes back for a phenomenal senior campaign and we could grab a transfer on the wing. Next year's team will be nothing like the 2012 squad and this is exciting. With 2 legit PGs and size on the wings, I would expect more full court zone pressure next year; not full court man because quickness will still be an issue. This sqaud will not be ranked high in the preseason rankings because of how we finished this year but will steadily climb. With more upperclassmen this year, home games will not be so close (or be lost). I can't wait....GO DUKE.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Fayetteville, NC
    After what happened last year, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the starting 5 at the start of the season is vastly different from that, which we see in March.

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