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  1. #1

    Lay Off Britney? (Front Page Story)

    How in the world does this :

    “She’s one of a kind. She’s like a guy playing with women. It’s just there’s so many things that she can do that I’ve not seen a lot of women (do).” (Muffett McGraw)

    constitute picking on someone? What am I missing?

  2. #2
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    In our politically correct world today you can't say anything that sounds sexist even if its true. In this case by saying Brittany plays like a man its hinting that men are physically stronger than women (something everyone knows but for some reason can't say in public). The world has gone nuts!

  3. #3
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    I thought McGraw's comments were pretty much stating the obvious, frankly. Britney is a physically gifted player who does things you do not normally see in women's basketball. I am sure it was not meant as an insult. If a player can slam dunk, let alone almost flat-footed, that's more indictative of what you see in men's basketball not women's. Doesn't make either better or worse -- but you can't ignore that there is a difference.
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  4. #4
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    I think the reaction to the story is a non-story.
    Is there some back-story to the story, that makes the reaction to the story a real story?

    (say that 3xs fast..)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgl1228 View Post
    In our politically correct world today you can't say anything that sounds sexist even if its true. In this case by saying Brittany plays like a man its hinting that men are physically stronger than women (something everyone knows but for some reason can't say in public). The world has gone nuts!
    No, I'd say the issue involves suggestions or speculation that Brittney is a man.

    Is this a similar situation to that with Caster Semenya, the terrific South African middle distance runner, who was subjecteed to gender testing, suspended from competition, and later re-instated?

    One thing unfortunate here is that Brittney seems to face harsher treatment than many athletes who intentionally use performance enhancing drugs; there is no indication that Brittney has cheated or been deceptive.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    No, I'd say the issue involves suggestions or speculation that Brittney is a man.

    Is this a similar situation to that with Caster Semenya, the terrific South African middle distance runner, who was subjected to gender testing, suspended from competition, and later re-instated?
    Ahh - some back-story..

    I dunno I didn't get that take from the story at all. It didn't feel like an accusation to me.
    If you made that kind of accusation w/o proof that's a slippery slope... and even if you HAD proof what does that say about who went to the trouble to obtain it?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleboy View Post
    How in the world does this :

    “She’s one of a kind. She’s like a guy playing with women. It’s just there’s so many things that she can do that I’ve not seen a lot of women (do).” (Muffett McGraw)

    constitute picking on someone? What am I missing?
    Greiner has a very deep voice and there have been whispers. Google "Caster Semenya" for some context.

    I realize this is a can of worms and the default is that Greiner is 100 % female until and unless proven otherwise. And it's never been proven otherwise.

    But she has been subjected to some pretty nasty taunting by opposing fans and Baylor is very sensitive on this issue. Likewise, I think we can give Coach McGraw the benefit of the doubt on intent. But she might have chosen her words more carefully.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wgl1228 View Post
    In our politically correct world today you can't say anything that sounds sexist even if its true. In this case by saying Brittany plays like a man its hinting that men are physically stronger than women (something everyone knows but for some reason can't say in public). The world has gone nuts!
    The issue is more delicate even than political correctness: it's the unfounded rumor that Griner is not a young woman, but a young man. Hence, either wittingly or unwittingly, McGraw's words came uncomfortably close to ugly rumor-mongering.

    The link included in the front page story will lead to other links that go into the firestorm that McGraw's comments elicited.

  9. #9
    I think that part of the front page reaction was apparently the Tweet-universe was going off on her at the same time the ND coach made her statement with stuff like, "She looks like a man." and "She sounds like a man." "She has a y chromosome." I don't really fault the ND coach. Griner does play like a man. She dunks. But I would prefer that people don't use the "man" term derogatorily like it sounds on Tweeter.
    ~rthomas


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleboy View Post
    How in the world does this :

    “She’s one of a kind. She’s like a guy playing with women. It’s just there’s so many things that she can do that I’ve not seen a lot of women (do).” (Muffett McGraw)

    constitute picking on someone? What am I missing?
    this isn't the comment that's drawing criticism (at least not from DBR) there's been chatter basically criticising her lack of femininity don't think the ND coach was doing that but others have which is pretty sad.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    No, I'd say the issue involves suggestions or speculation that Brittney is a man.

    Is this a similar situation to that with Caster Semenya, the terrific South African middle distance runner, who was subjecteed to gender testing, suspended from competition, and later re-instated?

    One thing unfortunate here is that Brittney seems to face harsher treatment than many athletes who intentionally use performance enhancing drugs; there is no indication that Brittney has cheated or been deceptive.
    Gender is the back story that's been in the background for some time. Such an issue seems to be in the news more frequently these days.... look at the recent matter involving a contestant in Donald Trump's beauty contest.

  12. #12
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    I was unaware of the back-story pointed out by several above. That doesn't change my thoughts on what the ND coach stated but does explain some of the sensitivity on the issue.

    Probably why I don't tweet. (Although I now follow Jason Evans because his mother told him to tweet and I don't want to disappoint Mrs. Evans).
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    Gender is the back story that's been in the background for some time. Such an issue seems to be in the news more frequently these days.... look at the recent matter involving a contestant in Donald Trump's beauty contest.
    Oh.. I haven't been paying attention to Baylor. I was oblivious to the implied (intentional or not) back-story.

    So the net takeaway for me is is:
    A female player cant be a superior player wo/ question unless she looks like Skylar D?
    No pressure...

  14. #14
    I heard the quote live, and I think DBR is way off base here. I think the ND coach meant it as a compliment, saying that Griner is just so much physically superior to anyone else in the women's college game. She also added that she's seen some female guards with that kind of athleticism, but not anyone at that height with that kind of athleticism. It was a post-game press conference and I don't think she meant it as anything more than a compliment. And Griner, when asked a few minutes later if she took it as a compliment, said she said "obviously" and looked confused.

    I realize that there is a lot of sensitivity with regard to earlier accusations that she may not be a female. But I don't think the ND coach was intending to suggest such a thing. It was a (perhaps poorly-worded) compliment in a live post-game press conference. If she had time to measure her words, she might have chosen a different set of words.

    Seems like DBR is taking an unnecessary shot at McGraw here. I could be wrong and maybe McGraw meant to send a subtle dig. But it sure didn't sound like it during the press conference.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    Oh.. I haven't been paying attention to Baylor. I was oblivious to the implied (intentional or not) back-story.

    So the net takeaway for me is is:
    A female player cant be a superior player wo/ question unless she looks like Skylar D?
    No pressure...
    and she should probably have a voice like Marilyn Monroe

  16. #16
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    The implication seems to be (in its nicest terms), NOT that Ms. Griner is a man, but that her gene pool has given her an advantage over most women. Her voice and her physical abilities have given some a chance to describe what she has done as only natural for someone who is very close to being, but not quite, a man.

    There is an ugliness in this type of attack that makes it hard to put into words just how good Ms. Griner plays basketball. There's a minefield that awaits any comparison between Britney Griner and, say, Ralph Sampson. But there is no woman who compares to Griner.

    Conundrum is an apt term for the problems people have when they try to describe the wonderful play of Griner without offending either her or someone else. Muffett McGraw stepped into the minefield. She didn't mean to, but there she is.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I heard the quote live, and I think DBR is way off base here. I think the ND coach meant it as a compliment, saying that Griner is just so much physically superior to anyone else in the women's college game. She also added that she's seen some female guards with that kind of athleticism, but not anyone at that height with that kind of athleticism. It was a post-game press conference and I don't think she meant it as anything more than a compliment. And Griner, when asked a few minutes later if she took it as a compliment, said she said "obviously" and looked confused.

    I realize that there is a lot of sensitivity with regard to earlier accusations that she may not be a female. But I don't think the ND coach was intending to suggest such a thing. It was a (perhaps poorly-worded) compliment in a live post-game press conference. If she had time to measure her words, she might have chosen a different set of words.

    Seems like DBR is taking an unnecessary shot at McGraw here. I could be wrong and maybe McGraw meant to send a subtle dig. But it sure didn't sound like it during the press conference.
    DBR said the reaction to Mcgraw's comment was wierd not the comment itself. They explicitly agreed with the comment. It wasn't Mcgraw they had an issue with its the other stuff being said about Britney. Took a little shot at her name but cmon Muffett

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    The issue is more delicate even than political correctness: it's the unfounded rumor that Griner is not a young woman, but a young man. Hence, either wittingly or unwittingly, McGraw's words came uncomfortably close to ugly rumor-mongering.

    The link included in the front page story will lead to other links that go into the firestorm that McGraw's comments elicited.
    I was unaware that a disgusting rumor like that was going around about her. I can see now why it was a big deal. I still think it sad though we cannot honestly talk about gender differences (physical strength, etc.) without getting scolded by the PC Police.

  19. #19
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    My first reaction when I first saw Ms. Griner play was that she moved like John Henson. Sort of gangly and all arms and legs. Given where Henson will likely go in the draft, that is sure no insult. The first indication that I had other than that was when she talked -- she had a voice more like a man than a woman. Then I began to wonder if she was really female (my reference was East German "women" athletes). But I concluded that, playing WBB at a big-time school, and being very successful, she must have been challenged on this before. I accept her as a woman (and I think most others do, too), and a talented one.
    Interestingly, when I was in high school (long ago) we had a couple of tall girls (probably 5' 10" or better). They tended to walk around in poor posture, trying (I guess) to deemphasize their height. In those days it was considered bad form for a girl to be taller than a boy. The world has changed for the better.

  20. #20
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    Had plenty discussions on Britney play, everyone say she plays like a "dude" but never once did I assume or think that she is actually a guy. This just people trying to make something out of nothing again...

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