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  1. #1

    After Irving & Rivers, How Do Duke Fans Feel About the One-and-Done Rule?

    Cal still says he isn't a fan of the rule, but it's an NBA problem to address, and until they do, it's in-bounds.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    I would rather have had a full year of Kyrie on the court, but I'm fine with us having one or two each year. I wish they'd change the rule and make it 2 or 3 years, but that's just me being selfish.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington DC
    Absent a D-League that's more useful than the one we've got, college is the minor leagues. I'd probably prefer something like baseball where you can either go pro straight out of high school or you have to stay in college three years.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    that would be good

    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Absent a D-League that's more useful than the one we've got, college is the minor leagues. I'd probably prefer something like baseball where you can either go pro straight out of high school or you have to stay in college three years.
    I'd like that alternative, but have to add that I think the root of the problem is the rookie salary cap. Makes it easy for NBA teams to draft on "upside" and also encourages players to go early, to burn off the relatively low salaries of the first few years.

  5. #5
    I don't like having players for just one season and I would prefer that they be able to go directly to the NBA if they want to. With that said, we've had two really good ones with Kyrie and Austin. The trade-off is that Dre played fewer minutes this year than he would have sans Austin and probably didn't progress as much as he could have otherwise. That probably will negatively affect the team next year (unless we score the next one and done phenom).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    I really dislike it but don't begrudge anyone the decisions they have to make to maximize their chances for personal and/or team success.

    It's a balancing act for college coaches. You balance the influx of raw talent vs. team cohesion. Sometimes raw talent wins out, sometimes raw talent makes rookie (freshman) mistakes and a veteran team can capitalize on that. And it's not easy to predict in advance which configuration of players/experience will end up the best for your program.

    I'm no labor market legal eagle, so what follows next is subject to revision if/when I get a better understanding. But I'm not crazy about the NBA setting that rule. I think that if a player is an adult at 18 they should be able to enter the job market. The NBA is a private group, though, and I suppose with the labor agreement they can set their own rules for entry. Whether they're a monopoly and thus subject to some limitations on their market behavior - I don't know. But it seems that the talking heads agree that the rule was set because management made too many mistakes with kids right out of high school. Whose fault is that? Not the kids! So they set this rule to save themselves from ... themselves. Seems nutty to me - and I am surprised there aren't enough owners who would maintain "I'm not that dumb, I don't need the rule, give me [Prep Star X] now!"

    All other things being equal, I'd rather have Duke be a program of 4 year players. All other things being equal, I'd like to see the NBA allow 18 year olds to come right in out of HS, perhaps to the NBDL first if necessary, so that college basketball is again for college students. But all else is not equal, and I am in no position to second-guess Coach K's judgment about whether a player would, even if they just came for 1 year, be a net benefit to the program (and university) or not.

    I think if we made the Final Four either of the last 2 years we probably aren't having this thread.

  7. #7

    Never Liked It

    I did not like the one and done when it went in and don't like it now.

    Let kids who think they are ready for the NBA go pro right out of high school.

    If a kid wants to go to college, have him go at least two years.

    The current system lets a kid take minimal courses to be eligible his first semester, then drop out of school when the season ends. Hardly going to college.

    One and done is good for the NBA as it lets NBA scouts see players in better competition than high school.

    A stronger D League would help also.

    SoCal

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    I feel the same way about it now as I did before Kyrie and Austin.
    I think it sucks.
    Mmmm, BBQ!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    I'm no expert

    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    But I'm not crazy about the NBA setting that rule. I think that if a player is an adult at 18 they should be able to enter the job market. The NBA is a private group, though, and I suppose with the labor agreement they can set their own rules for entry. Whether they're a monopoly and thus subject to some limitations on their market behavior - I don't know.
    My understanding is that the NBA restrictions on when a player can go pro and the rookie salary cap would be illegal under antitrust law, but for the labor agreement with the NBA players union.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    I really dislike it but don't begrudge anyone the decisions they have to make to maximize their chances for personal and/or team success.

    It's a balancing act for college coaches. You balance the influx of raw talent vs. team cohesion. Sometimes raw talent wins out, sometimes raw talent makes rookie (freshman) mistakes and a veteran team can capitalize on that. And it's not easy to predict in advance which configuration of players/experience will end up the best for your program.

    I'm no labor market legal eagle, so what follows next is subject to revision if/when I get a better understanding. But I'm not crazy about the NBA setting that rule. I think that if a player is an adult at 18 they should be able to enter the job market. The NBA is a private group, though, and I suppose with the labor agreement they can set their own rules for entry. Whether they're a monopoly and thus subject to some limitations on their market behavior - I don't know. But it seems that the talking heads agree that the rule was set because management made too many mistakes with kids right out of high school. Whose fault is that? Not the kids! So they set this rule to save themselves from ... themselves. Seems nutty to me - and I am surprised there aren't enough owners who would maintain "I'm not that dumb, I don't need the rule, give me [Prep Star X] now!"

    All other things being equal, I'd rather have Duke be a program of 4 year players. All other things being equal, I'd like to see the NBA allow 18 year olds to come right in out of HS, perhaps to the NBDL first if necessary, so that college basketball is again for college students. But all else is not equal, and I am in no position to second-guess Coach K's judgment about whether a player would, even if they just came for 1 year, be a net benefit to the program (and university) or not.

    I think if we made the Final Four either of the last 2 years we probably aren't having this thread.
    I agree with most of your points. If a person is 18, they have the legal ability to many things (except drink - different discussion). Most probably lack the maturity and experience to make a well informed decision, but that's also a different topic. Some are physically and mentally built for the jump to the pros - LeBron, Howard, for two recent examples - and some are not and could benefit from expert coaching and more importantly, playing against more physically mature players than the average high school player. I heard someone use Greg Oden as an example - that he never faced a guy of his size and ability until well into his college career and did not fare well that time. Perhaps the problem is not with the NBA but with the NCAA and its supposed devotion to amateur purity. Not advocating paying players per se, but what about allowing them back into college to play if they try the pros (even declare for the draft) and can't cut it or don't feel ready for it. It would affect many other things like recruiting and so forth and might engender some abuses, but isn't it a bit like interning? The high school kid - let's use Kyrie as an example - could go to a summer pro league and check his skills against future players in NBA-like conditions (like defense being played). If he is as good as a Kyrie, he can choose to move on, or go back to college and work on improving his skills (probably would have some issues with scholarships and so forth but that's beyond this post).

  11. #11
    I personally don't like it. It makes freshman year in college like a tryout for the NBA. I think college bball should be reserved for players that at least buy into the idea of getting an education. If they got $$ on the brain or are ready to play NBA out of high school, let them do it. If they are not NBA ready but have no desire to go to college, they should be able to play in the D league or abroad (I guess they can still go abroad like Jennings did).

    Some players explode their fr/so year, catch the eyes of scouts, and set sail on that ship. I am fine with that. It's the kids that are forced to go to school when they already have their minds set on going to the NBA after a year that I do not like. In a way, it kind of makes a joke out of our higher education system if schools are willing to accept kids that have no desire to get a degree.

  12. #12
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    Mar 2008
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    Martinsville, VA
    I don't like it but we may as well accept it. Last year, it was Kyrie. This year, Austin. And if we're lucky enough to get him, next year it will be Shabazz.

  13. #13
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    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I don't like having players for just one season and I would prefer that they be able to go directly to the NBA if they want to. With that said, we've had two really good ones with Kyrie and Austin. The trade-off is that Dre played fewer minutes this year than he would have sans Austin and probably didn't progress as much as he could have otherwise. That probably will negatively affect the team next year (unless we score the next one and done phenom).
    Not to hijack the thread, but I disagree with what you say about Dre. If he had played like he's capable of, like he did in a handfull of games, he would have played ~30 +/- minutes in every game. All he had to do was make his shots and play decent defense. He had his moments and his star shined brightly early in the season - the minutes were his to lose. And he did. Repeatedly. He needs to work hard this summer to become the superstar we (or at leat I) think he can be.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Here's My Two Cents

    The OP asked in the thread title, "After Irving & Rivers, How Do Duke Fans Feel About the One-and-Done Rule?"

    Every college fan hates it! All college fans preferred a system with very limited eligibility for the pros until well after leaving high school.

    But we don't have a vote in the matter, nor does the NCAA.

    sagegrouse

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Carolina Beach

    Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Absent a D-League that's more useful than the one we've got, college is the minor leagues. I'd probably prefer something like baseball where you can either go pro straight out of high school or you have to stay in college three years.
    I would love the rule for basketball to be like the baseball rule.You want to go high school to NBA have at it. But if you sign on the dotted line to attend college you remain for 3 years minimum. It would bring stability to college basketball and I personally could care less about the NBA.

  16. #16
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    Apr 2008
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    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The OP asked in the thread title, "After Irving & Rivers, How Do Duke Fans Feel About the One-and-Done Rule?"

    Every college fan hates it! All college fans preferred a system with very limited eligibility for the pros until well after leaving high school.

    But we don't have a vote in the matter, nor does the NCAA.

    sagegrouse
    Really, the NCAA doesn't have a vote in the matter. How about tightening up the rules on graduation vis a vis scholarships. Or maybe adapt a rule that penalizies an institution by docking them in the following fashion. If you have a player jump after a season, you lose 3 yrs worth of scholarship time for another player. If that team were to have 2 players jump after a year then the penalty would be 6 years and so on down the line.

    Once a program gets burned by these type of players, they'd think long and hard about these type of kids.

    How about contracts between incoming players and institutions. If the player reneges they are on the hook for X amount of dollars?

    There is plenty that the NCAA can do, they've just got to sit down and make a decision.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    All college fans preferred a system with very limited eligibility for the pros until well after leaving high school.
    sagegrouse
    Pardon me, but I'm a college fan and I do not prefer "a system with very limited eligibility for the pros until well after leaving high school."

    If you read my post, you'll note that I favor immediate eligibility. For the players who can go pro at 18: let them go. For the players who want a college education: let them play college basketball.

    If the NBA doesn't want 18yr olds that quickly, they should instead pass a rule that they have to go to the NBDL (or something like that) for a year. That way, they can get paid even more than they might in college and the NBA can still not be financially burdened by their massive mistakes.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    Do you hate it if you are a Kentucky fan?

    I think you only hate it when you support a team like Duke when you have a nagging feeling that maybe your one and doner was only thinking about himself, his own stats and not the team!

    Remember I said a nagging feeling no proof and probably not true....

  19. #19
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    Nov 2009
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    Silicon Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by wsb3 View Post
    I would love the rule for basketball to be like the baseball rule.You want to go high school to NBA have at it. But if you sign on the dotted line to attend college you remain for 3 years minimum. It would bring stability to college basketball and I personally could care less about the NBA.
    Two questions, because I hear a lot of people say this.

    1. Why three and not four? Three has absolutely no meaning. Four is the number of years it typically takes to get a bachelor's degree.

    2. Why not just go back to the old system, which was basically the same thing? If you are a one-and-doner in the current system, you're just going to go directly. If you aren't, you're probably going to stay for at least three years anyway. Obviously there are a few exceptions, but they seem to have worked out OK. (Luol / Corey)

    Not trying to antagonize. Just wondering.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    Pardon me, but I'm a college fan and I do not prefer "a system with very limited eligibility for the pros until well after leaving high school."

    If you read my post, you'll note that I favor immediate eligibility. For the players who can go pro at 18: let them go. For the players who want a college education: let them play college basketball.

    If the NBA doesn't want 18yr olds that quickly, they should instead pass a rule that they have to go to the NBDL (or something like that) for a year. That way, they can get paid even more than they might in college and the NBA can still not be financially burdened by their massive mistakes.
    You're right. I should have posted my insistent message with the caveat that "straight to the pros was OK," but college should have a commitment.

    On another thread, someone said "why three, why not four," cuz that's the normal college lifetime. OK, but Duke has had a number of three-year players graduate, including JWill and Dunleavy and, if he wants, Mason. I believe the same thing happens in baseball, which does have a three-year commitment once a player goes to college.

    sagegrouse

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