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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Indiana

    Kentucky versus Wizards

    Gary Williams claims Kentucky can beat the Washington Wizards at Rupp. (Remember when people were speculating about the 1999 Duke team being able to beat an NBA team?) Stan Van Gundy has a great quote in response: "Look, it's absurd...I mean, people will say, 'Oh, Kentucky, you know's, got four NBA players.' Yeah, well the other team's got 13."
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/77...wizards-absurd

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by JG Nothing View Post
    Gary Williams claims Kentucky can beat the Washington Wizards at Rupp. (Remember when people were speculating about the 1999 Duke team being able to beat an NBA team?) Stan Van Gundy has a great quote in response: "Look, it's absurd...I mean, people will say, 'Oh, Kentucky, you know's, got four NBA players.' Yeah, well the other team's got 13."
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/77...wizards-absurd
    Stan Van Gundy is correct. Kentucky is a very very good college basketball team. But they'd get killed by Washington. Kentucky has two players who are sure-fire NBA starters, a third who is a borderline starter (Jones), and a couple of guys who are probably role players (Lamb and Teague). Washington may not have what it takes to beat NBA teams, but they'd kill a college team.

    PG: Washington has John Wall, Jordan Crawford (who averaged 20ppg at Xavier), and Shelvin Mack (whom we all know for his Final Four runs at Butler). Kentucky has Marcus Teague and Doron Lamb. Huge edge to Washington.

    SG: Washington has Crawford. Guys like Roger Mason and Maurice Evans (who were very solid college players) barely crack the rotation. Kentucky has Lamb and Miller. Again, edge to Washington, though not by as much as at PG.

    SF: Washington has Rashard Lewis (a 6'10" former NBA star who is still pretty good) and Chris Singleton (6'10" All-ACC defensive stopper). Kentucky has MKG and Miller. I'll give this one a push or possible edge to Kentucky, but Lewis and Singleton would make life VERY difficult for MKG and are far better than Miller.

    PF: Washington has Trevor Booker (former star at Clemson), Andray Blatche (6'11" guy who averaged 17 and 8 last year in the NBA), and Kevin Seraphin (a 6'9", 265lb widebody who shows promise). Kentucky has Jones (undersized) and Wiltjer (skinny). Huge edge to Washington.

    C: Washington has Nene (a 6'11", 260lb load inside that dwarfs Davis) and Blatche. Kentucky has Davis and Vargas. Big edge to Washington here.

    Kentucky has a fantastic college team with four guys who will certainly play at the next level (2-3 of them may be impact players). But Washington has a full team of NBA players. They have former college stars playing role player minutes. It's just a different level. Even the very best of college teams would likely get beat by the typical bottom feeder NBA teams. It's just the nature of filtering talent from one level to the next.

  3. #3
    Laron profit was right.he says wizards by 30.i believe Mr.Williams may have wanted some attention by making that statement.

  4. #4
    We've talked about this at work the other day. The Bobcats (the worse team in the league) would beat Kentucky by 20. Heat, Thunder or Bulls might beat them by 40 or 50.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Van Gundy's comment is great..lol. And he's totally right, my guess is Kentucky would get beat by the benches of most NBA teams. Same argument went for Alabama vs an NFL team. On the face it sounds plausible, but then you think about how intensely selective pro teams are..those guys are at such an elite level. And just because you are a high lottery pick obviously does not ensure NBA success...my guess is that some of those bench players that would school Kentucky were also lottery picks.
    Mmmm, BBQ!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Not clear that 2012 KY has as much talent as either team from the 2001 final.

    Duke - 5 good NBA players starting (Duhon, Dunleavy, JWil, Boozer, Battier)
    Arizona - 5 guys drafted including 3 good NBA guys (Jefferson, Arenas, Walton) + Wright and Woods

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JG Nothing View Post
    Gary Williams claims Kentucky can beat the Washington Wizards at Rupp. (Remember when people were speculating about the 1999 Duke team being able to beat an NBA team?) Stan Van Gundy has a great quote in response: "Look, it's absurd...I mean, people will say, 'Oh, Kentucky, you know's, got four NBA players.' Yeah, well the other team's got 13."
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/77...wizards-absurd
    No way that would happen. KY could not even beat Vandy in their conference final. Just because one team seems dominant in the college game says more about the state of college ball than the quality of that supposed dominant team. KY is a very good team but I would not even rank them with the best college teams of all time. We will see if they can win it all.
    dukelifer

  8. #8
    The same things have been said about UNLV 91, Duke 92, UK 96, Duke 99, etc. And then they get shot down by more reasonable people.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    .I have always thought the more interesting question is, who's roster would you rather have if you were a GM. For instance, I may take UKs roster over the Bobcats right now. With Charlotte, you pretty much know what you have and what the ceiling is (except for Kemba and maybe Gerald). With UK, there is a possibility to have 2 or 3 players who are better then anyone on the Bobcats roster.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyFan View Post
    The same things have been said about UNLV 91, Duke 92, UK 96, Duke 99, etc. And then they get shot down by more reasonable people.
    Yeah, it's laughable. Even bad NBA teams are bigger, deeper, and more talented at the top than college teams. Davis is a dominant college C. In the NBA? He's a skinny PF (he'll be good, but he'll have to get a lot stronger to be a star). Jones is a great college PF. At the NBA level he's a tweener and more likely a SF. Kidd-Gilchrist is a stud SF at the college level who could even play PF in a pinch. In the NBA he's a SG/SF. Lamb is a small SG who would likely be a backup. Teague is a good but not great college PG who'd be a reserve in the NBA. Miller probably doesn't make the NBA and Wiltjer would be at best a fringe player for his outside shooting ability (and that's several years from now).

    There have been far better college teams than this Kentucky team, and even those would get killed in the NBA. The size, strength, depth, and talent is just worlds different.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    No way that would happen. KY could not even beat Vandy in their conference final. Just because one team seems dominant in the college game says more about the state of college ball than the quality of that supposed dominant team. KY is a very good team but I would not even rank them with the best college teams of all time. We will see if they can win it all.
    Let's not diminish the talent on Vandy... 3 NBAers and a bunch of seniors.

    I still can't believe we didn't beat Wisc and then Cuse.
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    There's no doubt whatsoever that every NBA team is significantly better than every college team.

    With that being said, I'm starting to doubt the conventional wisdom that a college team has no chance of beating on NBA team in a one game situation if the game is played with college rules and the college team is playing at home. I no longer think Kentucky would go 0-82 in the NBA.

    CDu analyzed the match-ups and found that the Wizards have an edge at every position, except maybe one push. Doesn't that also describe (forgive me for bringing it up) Lehigh against Duke? Again, there's no doubt the Wizards are better than Kentucky - but is the talent gap that much bigger than the one between George Mason and Connecticut? Van Gundy is right, the Wizards have 13 NBA players to Kentucky's 4 or whatever it ends up being. But I'm sure if we think hard enough everyone on this board could find an example of a team with 0 NBA players beating a team with 3 or more NBA players in one game situations.

    I'm not sure that a historically good college team (and we're not sure Kentucky is that yet, but let's just say) wouldn't have, say, a 10-20% chance of beating a terrible NBA team on its home floor playing with college rules and referees.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    There's no doubt whatsoever that every NBA team is significantly better than every college team.

    With that being said, I'm starting to doubt the conventional wisdom that a college team has no chance of beating on NBA team in a one game situation if the game is played with college rules and the college team is playing at home. I no longer think Kentucky would go 0-82 in the NBA.

    CDu analyzed the match-ups and found that the Wizards have an edge at every position, except maybe one push. Doesn't that also describe (forgive me for bringing it up) Lehigh against Duke? Again, there's no doubt the Wizards are better than Kentucky - but is the talent gap that much bigger than the one between George Mason and Connecticut? Van Gundy is right, the Wizards have 13 NBA players to Kentucky's 4 or whatever it ends up being. But I'm sure if we think hard enough everyone on this board could find an example of a team with 0 NBA players beating a team with 3 or more NBA players in one game situations.

    I'm not sure that a historically good college team (and we're not sure Kentucky is that yet, but let's just say) wouldn't have, say, a 10-20% chance of beating a terrible NBA team on its home floor playing with college rules and referees.
    Could they beat an NBA team? On the right night, sure. But they'd more regularly get blown out. Saying they could possibly occasionally beat a terrible NBA team is much different than saying they would beat a terrible NBA team.

    I'd put it at more like 5-10% chance (maybe less). But sure, there's a chance.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Let me pose a different hypothetical -- I don't think the Washington Wizards, in the one-and-done format of the NCAA Tourney combined with their relatively unmotivated style of play, could win this year's National Championship. Just my opinion. Proceed to attack.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by freedevil View Post
    Let me pose a different hypothetical -- I don't think the Washington Wizards, in the one-and-done format of the NCAA Tourney combined with their relatively unmotivated style of play, could win this year's National Championship. Just my opinion. Proceed to attack.
    you don't think they *could* win? as in, zero chance? that is hard to believe. they would be, by far, the most talented team in the field.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by freedevil View Post
    Let me pose a different hypothetical -- I don't think the Washington Wizards, in the one-and-done format of the NCAA Tourney combined with their relatively unmotivated style of play, could win this year's National Championship. Just my opinion. Proceed to attack.
    They absolutely COULD win, and would be the hands-down favorite. Seriously, look at that roster from a college perspective. Trevor Booker, Shelvin Mack, Maurice Evans, Roger Mason, and Chris Singleton were all college stars and All-Conference players. They are role players for the Wizards. John Wall was an All-American. They have three 6'11" big men in their rotation (two of whom are good NBA players already) and a 6'9" space eater. They have 8 first round picks (3 high lottery picks) and another two guys who dropped to the second round as high schoolers but have proven themselves to be 10+ ppg guys in the NBA.

    Is it possible that they could lose a game in the Final Four? Sure, there's always a chance with the 3 point line in basketball. But they'd steamroll everyone before the Final Four and would be HEAVY favorites in the Final Four.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    you don't think they *could* win? as in, zero chance? that is hard to believe. they would be, by far, the most talented team in the field.
    Fair point -- I don't think they *would* win. Agree that they certainly could, and would be favored by hypothetical pundits to do so. Just don't think they would win.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by freedevil View Post
    Fair point -- I don't think they *would* win. Agree that they certainly could, and would be favored by hypothetical pundits to do so. Just don't think they would win.
    I think you're underestimating the talent gap between the NBA and college. See my post above. Consider these guys from a college perspective - not relative to the NBA players.

    The NBA has so much talent that it makes really good players look pedestrian. Those guys would be monsters in the college game. Heck, many of them WERE monsters in the college game.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    So here's another hypothetical - could a college ALL-STAR team, given a couple weeks to practice together, beat the Wizards or the Bobcats? You'd have Anthony David and MK Gilchrist, Perry Jones, a couple of the UNC guys... basically the entire draft lottery on one team. Now there's not quite as much of a physical mismatch, but of course you still have the difference in experience and maturity.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    So here's another hypothetical - could a college ALL-STAR team, given a couple weeks to practice together, beat the Wizards or the Bobcats? You'd have Anthony David and MK Gilchrist, Perry Jones, a couple of the UNC guys... basically the entire draft lottery on one team. Now there's not quite as much of a physical mismatch, but of course you still have the difference in experience and maturity.
    That would be a more interesting case. Pulling from the AP All-American teams:

    Zeller, Davis, Sullinger, Robinson, Kidd-Gilchrist, Crowder, Canaan, Jenkins, McDermott, Marshall, Denmon, and one of Jones, Lillard, Green, or Tyshawn Taylor. That team would stand a VERY good chance of beating the Bobcats.

    And that was just using the All-American list. We could find an even better squad looking at the lottery guys. Of course, picking a team of lottery picks against a bad NBA team (which doesn't necessarily have even that many lottery picks) isn't necessarily fair.

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