How did we get to this point?

[Kedsy]

...how is [it] that Duke got to such a state...

How did we get to what state? We lost a first round NCAA tournament game. That's all. How does that mean all these other programs are outcompeting us?

Here are some top programs and their latest failures:

UNC missed the tournament entirely in 2010.
Kentucky missed the tournament entirely in 2009; had a first round loss in 2008.
Ohio State had 1st round loss in 2009; missed the tournament entirely in 2008.
UCLA missed the tournament entirely in 2012; missed the tournament entirely in 2010.
Florida had a first round loss in 2010; missed the tournament entirely in 2008 and 2009.
Syracuse had a 2nd round loss in 2011; missed the tournament entirely in 2008.
UConn had a first round loss in 2012; missed the tournament entirely in 2010; had a first round loss in 2008.
Louisville had a first round loss in 2010 and 2011.
Kansas had a 2nd round loss in 2010.
Georgetown had a 2nd round loss in 2012; 1st round loss in 2010 and 2011; missed tournament entirely in 2009.


If one embarrassing early round loss means you're not competing, there are a whole lot of teams who aren't competing these days.

It feels to me like Duke is experiencing another lull in its capabilities, due to some unfortunate setbacks in recruiting...

According to RSCI, here are Duke's recruiting class ranking since the mid-2000s:

2011: #2 in the country
2010: #9
2009: #8 (didn't include Andre when they ranked it, so it's really higher)
2008: #11
2007: #3
2006: #3
2005: #2

It just so happens that the 2008 recruiting class is this year's senior class. But putting that aside, where's the lull? Do you really expect us to be the top recruiting class every single year?

FWIW, our recruiting was unranked in 2000, 2001, and 2003, so you don't need to bring in the top class every year to succeed.

...it is clear that Duke gets considerably more top players than Lehigh (or even Arizona), so the losses of the last two years give the feeling of substantive underperformance by the players that Duke did manage to get.

Do you believe that the more talented team wins every game they play? If not, then you have to accept that the more talented team is going to lose sometimes.

Duke fans need to face the fact that Duke is trying to compete at the highest level right now, with some players that pretty obviously are trying to punch above their weight. Given that we hear all the time that Coach K can get the majority of the players that he goes after, one has to wonder: why has he gone after some of these players?

On the 2011-2012 team, out of our ten active scholarship players, we have eight (8) players who were ranked in the top 32 of their class, according to RSCI (I'm including Andre who was around #15 before he re-classified), plus a player who made 3rd team All-ACC this year.

We're recruiting at the highest level. Do you really expect every player we recruit to be top ten? If so, do you really expect we'll get them all?

[Chris Randolph]

A few observations:

#1: Every program/team in every sport has a low moment (as Coack K called it) at times. Fortunately for Duke, they don't have very many and even in a low moment still win over 25 games.

#2: All the comments about what Coach K needs to do recruiting are ridiculous. If you want to have so much say in Duke's recruiting, go ask Coach K if he will hire you as recruiting coordinator. I have no problem with whom he recruits. He recruits good to great basketball players that behave and graduate and represent the program in a great way. Sure, every fan wants their team to be ubber-talented but at what expense.

#3: Addressing why this Duke team crumbled down the stretch/fell apart a bit without Kelly when other teams lose players and still had success: I come back to my argument all year... Leadership/togetherness/fist. When teams face adversity, mentally tough teams with good leadership rise up to the challenge and come together. This Duke team was unable to do that

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

If Duke lacked lateral quickness on the perimeter and opposing teams could (and did) get in the paint at will, then why not play more zone defense? I mean I saw Notre Dame, who was similar to Duke in terms of quickness, play zone on Syracuse early in the season and win. Other teams are quite effective at playing zone against Duke especially when the shots are not falling as easily from the outside (Lehigh). In addition, even with all the defensive liabilities with this team, okay, if we can't stop anyone then let's out-score them...let's go with our best 5 offensive players and let them have at it. Yeah I know this isn't too realistic but it sure would have been interesting to watch.

[Mudge]

I don't think any of those things are pipe dreams, so you can discard the "pony for Christmas" comments.

Sorry - I missed an "or" in there. Nice nitpick. I want either Zeigler or Muhammad, each of whom would provide a tall, athletic, tough, versatile wing player that we lacked this year. Fixed in my post, now.

I keed, I keed...

[Mudge]

We have an elite big man on the roster right now, but we don't use him very well.

I can't think of whom you mean... the one guy who is being talked about as an early entrant to the draft will be making a huge mistake (from a career longevity perspective) if he does so-- he is likely to have less success than Josh McRoberts did initially, IMO, which means he will likely be digging himself a huge hole (of lowered evaluations and expectations) and then have to find a way to dig out of it, if he is to find a way to stick around long term-- much as McRoberts did-- and McRoberts had better hands and was as good or better as a passer... the rest of these two players' skills are roughly similar at college departure (if measured now).

[UrinalCake]

I will throw this one bone to Duke, on the deflating way that this season ended-- I kept hearing today that "it was a shame that Syracuse had to compete without Fab Melo, and that UNC had to compete without Kendall Marshall, and that Michigan State had to compete without one of their key players who went down with a knee injury recently, because those are all top-ranked teams that could have made a championship run, but for the loss of that one player"-- but not once did I hear anyone say that it was a shame that Duke lost Ryan Kelly just before the tournament started...

I think the difference is that Duke still has so much more talent that Lehigh, so losing Kelly shouldn't have mattered. It's another matter entirely to be playing against Kansas or OSU where talent levels start out being equal and so losing a key player puts you at a disadvantage. Maybe if we had advanced further the absence of Kelly would have garnered more attention...

As far as recruiting, Kentucky is just in another world from any other team in college basketball, so I wouldn't use them as a point of comparison. The guys they get have no interest in school and are just stopping by on their way to the NBA. I will give Coach Cal credit for getting them to play together as a team and even play pretty good defense, but I don't think we should try to compare our own recruiting to theirs when we're actually bringing in student athletes and maintaining some integrity.

With that said, I don't think we've had recruiting mistakes per se, just that things go in cycles and we're in a bit of a downward trend right now. No team can make the final four every single year, but we'll be back there soon.

[Mudge]

No, I didn't really compare Gbinije to Henderson but showed that it is possible for players to develop after lackluster Freshman years. Henderson was a lottery pick so while I don't think Gbinije will get to that level, there is no reason he can't be an athletic wing. As far as Murphy, the kid was a senior in high school so why waste him on the bench for a year when he can red shirt and have 4 more years of eligibility. Lance Thomas is an NBA player and Zoubek was on his way until his injuries flared up. I think you discount their capabilities all b/c they didn't play much on a very deep team. Nolan Smith as a freshman probably wouldn't have played much on this team behind Dre, Curry, Rivers, or even TT as a Sophomore. K doesn't trust many Freshmen mainly from a defensive standpoint and unless you are a lottery pick whose offense will make up for its defense, the Quinn Cooks won't see the floor as long as they are defense liabilities.

And Duke was actually the #2 2 seed as they were 6th on the S-curve. They were given the South based on regional preference. Additionally, the talking heads at ESPN always have Duke as the first team ripe for an upset. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we shared the distinction of being the 1st #1 seed out in 2010 on an "alarmingly unathletic" team. When you start using Vitale (who said Detroit would win this year) or Gottlieb as an argument, I fail to see your point.

Lance Thomas is an NBA player? I must have missed his promotion, as last I heard he was roaming the D-League somewhere... I can't imagine that he is playing any meaningful minutes for even the lower echelon teams in the NBA.

You don't see my point? OK, explicitly, many close observers of college basketball (including analysts of far more insight than the dunces cited above, people like Bilas and Hubert Davis) were not that impressed with Duke this year-- Duke was not awe-inspiring or fear-inducing as a team this year-- to Florida State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Temple, or even Lehigh-- those teams all looked forward to playing Duke this year, because they knew that Duke was vulnerable, and they wanted to get a famous scalp, when the getting was good-- nobody was afraid of playing Duke; they relished the opportunity-- is that clear enough?

[dcdevil2009]

I'm not sure if our problem is not having an elite big as much as it's that our back and front courts not having very complimentary skill sets. With the exception of free throw shooting, I'd say Mason is above average at most things, but in order to take advantage of that, he needs a guard who could get him the ball as soon as he got good position. On the other hand, our back court and defense would have been more successful if our bigs were better rebounders. If you look at the 2010 team, I wouldn't describe Scheyer as an elite passer (despite almost 5 assists/per game, it seems like most were to shooters on the perimeter), but having Zoubek there to extend possessions gave him more opportunities to get those assists. Even though this team didn't force bad shots very often, we were often limited to one shot possessions giving us a razor thin margin of error. Likewise, on defense we seemed to give up a lot of offensive boards that made exposing our defensive flaws even easier whereas the 2010 team looked better on defense because Zoubek's elite rebounding limited opponents to one shot per possession.

I've seen a lot of people describe this years team as having chemistry problems, but I think it really boils down to having too many players with the same strengths and weaknesses. We don't need an elite big or point guard to be successful, just players who are able to make each other better. Zoubek did that with his rebounding in 2010 and Kyrie did it with his speed and court vision last year. Hopefully next year someone will step up and make the team better than it's individual parts, but without a player whose skill set makes the guys around him better there's only so much Coach K can do to bring the team together.

[Indoor66]

Lance Thomas is an NBA player? I must have missed his promotion, as last I heard he was roaming the D-League somewhere... I can't imagine that he is playing any meaningful minutes for even the lower echelon teams in the NBA.

You have to re-key your imagination. Lance is with the New Orleans Hornets. Check the Roster here.

2011-12 Roster
NUM	PLAYER	POS	HT	WT	DOB	Prior to NBA/Home Country	YRS
0	Al-Farouq Aminu	F	6-9	215	09/21/1990	Wake Forest / USA	1
1	Trevor Ariza	F	6-8	210	06/30/1985	UCLA / USA	7
15	Gustavo Ayon	F-C	6-10	250	04/01/1985	Baloncesto Fuenlabrada / Mexico	R
8	Marco Belinelli	G	6-5	195	03/25/1986	Fortitudo Bologna / Italy	4
10	Eric Gordon	G	6-3	215	12/25/1988	Indiana / USA	3
4	Xavier Henry	G	6-6	220	03/15/1991	Kansas / USA	1
2	Jarrett Jack	G	6-3	197	10/28/1983	Georgia Tech / USA	6
20	Chris Johnson	F	6-11	210	07/15/1985	Louisiana State / USA	1
35	Chris Kaman	C-F	7-0	265	04/28/1982	Central Michigan / USA	8
24	Carl Landry	F	6-9	248	09/19/1983	Purdue / USA	4
50	Emeka Okafor	C	6-10	255	09/28/1982	Connecticut / USA	7
14	Jason Smith	F-C	7-0	240	03/02/1986	Colorado State / USA	3
42	Lance Thomas	F	6-8	225	04/24/1988	Duke / USA	R
21	Greivis Vasquez	G	6-6	211	01/16/1987	Maryland / Venezuela	1

[Kedsy]

Lance Thomas is an NBA player? I must have missed his promotion, as last I heard he was roaming the D-League somewhere... I can't imagine that he is playing any meaningful minutes for even the lower echelon teams in the NBA.

If you're going to be this condescending, you really ought to have at least some idea what you're talking about. Lance Thomas has played double-figure minutes for the Hornets for 12 consecutive games, averaging 18 minutes a game over that time and averaging almost 7 ppg and almost 3 rpg.

[Duvall]

Lance Thomas is an NBA player? I must have missed his promotion, as last I heard he was roaming the D-League somewhere... I can't imagine that he is playing any meaningful minutes for even the lower echelon teams in the NBA.

And yet.

[davekay1971]

Lance Thomas is an NBA player? I must have missed his promotion, as last I heard he was roaming the D-League somewhere... I can't imagine that he is playing any meaningful minutes for even the lower echelon teams in the NBA.

You don't see my point? OK, explicitly, many close observers of college basketball (including analysts of far more insight than the dunces cited above, people like Bilas and Hubert Davis) were not that impressed with Duke this year-- Duke was not awe-inspiring or fear-inducing as a team this year-- to Florida State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Temple, or even Lehigh-- those teams all looked forward to playing Duke this year, because they knew that Duke was vulnerable, and they wanted to get a famous scalp, when the getting was good-- nobody was afraid of playing Duke; they relished the opportunity-- is that clear enough?

They may have relished the opportunity and thought Duke looked beatable (and they were right...we were beatable), but of the 31 times in the regular season the game tipped off, 26 times the other team went home with a loss.

There's a big difference between, "Hey, Duke has flaws, Duke is beatable" (both true this season), and Duke being a bad team with a poor season. With a healthy roster, during the regular season, we had really, really good results. Even our ACC tournament performance was nothing to be ashamed of - we lost a very close game to a very good FSU team that went on to beat an incredibly talented UNC team the next day (yeah, I know, Carolina without Henson...but Duke without Kelly).

In fact, there were exactly 4 times this season where I felt Duke really just got beaten...Ohio State (at that point healthy, and currently competing for the natty), Temple (a bad loss), Carolina (at that point with Marshall and Henson in the lineup, and had Marshall been in the lineup yesterday, a team that certainly could be competing for the natty), and Lehigh. Two games beaten badly by great teams, two games that were just bad, bad losses. The Miami loss was bad only in that we should have beaten Miami at home, but it was a good comeback and a couple Austin Rivers free-throws away from a win...that kind of thing happens.

I'm as disappointed as the next guy about ending our season with probably our worst peformance of our season. I don't like Duke going into the history books as one those memorable upset victims in the NCAAT. But that doesn't mean the season was a lousy season. Actually, it was a pretty good season with a terrible ending.

[Des Esseintes]

How did we get to what state? We lost a first round NCAA tournament game. That's all. How does that mean all these other programs are outcompeting us?

Here are some top programs and their latest failures:

UNC missed the tournament entirely in 2010.
Kentucky missed the tournament entirely in 2009; had a first round loss in 2008.
Ohio State had 1st round loss in 2009; missed the tournament entirely in 2008.
UCLA missed the tournament entirely in 2012; missed the tournament entirely in 2010.
Florida had a first round loss in 2010; missed the tournament entirely in 2008 and 2009.
Syracuse had a 2nd round loss in 2011; missed the tournament entirely in 2008.
UConn had a first round loss in 2012; missed the tournament entirely in 2010; had a first round loss in 2008.
Louisville had a first round loss in 2010 and 2011.
Kansas had a 2nd round loss in 2010.
Georgetown had a 2nd round loss in 2012; 1st round loss in 2010 and 2011; missed tournament entirely in 2009.


If one embarrassing early round loss means you're not competing, there are a whole lot of teams who aren't competing these days.



According to RSCI, here are Duke's recruiting class ranking since the mid-2000s:

2011: #2 in the country
2010: #9
2009: #8 (didn't include Andre when they ranked it, so it's really higher)
2008: #11
2007: #3
2006: #3
2005: #2

It just so happens that the 2008 recruiting class is this year's senior class. But putting that aside, where's the lull? Do you really expect us to be the top recruiting class every single year?

FWIW, our recruiting was unranked in 2000, 2001, and 2003, so you don't need to bring in the top class every year to succeed.



Do you believe that the more talented team wins every game they play? If not, then you have to accept that the more talented team is going to lose sometimes.



On the 2011-2012 team, out of our ten active scholarship players, we have eight (8) players who were ranked in the top 32 of their class, according to RSCI (I'm including Andre who was around #15 before he re-classified), plus a player who made 3rd team All-ACC this year.

We're recruiting at the highest level. Do you really expect every player we recruit to be top ten? If so, do you really expect we'll get them all?

Seriously. You can only write some of the stuff appearing in this thread if you forget the 2011 even existed. That was an absolutely monster team tripped up by bad injury luck. Kyrie stays healthy all year--we annihilate people and are the odds-on favorite to win the title. Kyrie doesn't come back--we might still have won the title. I cannot believe this stupid, overentitled thread exists.

[SoCalDukeFan]

If Kyrie had come back, then he would have driven and dished to Mason and Miles and we would be talking about their improvement.

If Austin would have passed more, maybe the same thing.

If Barnes and Henson go to the NBA then UNC-CH probably has a weak season.

Andre's shooting problems at the end of the season really hurt.

I know its a lot of ifs and if I had wings I could fly or something, but I am not as pessimistic as some.

It is hard in today's game to maintain a high level of play year after year with student-athletes.

My biggest concern about this year is that our play regressed at the end of the season and that our defense was not very good. I would hope that the coaching staff tries to figure out what happened and how to fix it.

SoCal

[Mudge]

How did we get to what state? We lost a first round NCAA tournament game. That's all. How does that mean all these other programs are outcompeting us?

Here are some top programs and their latest failures:

UNC missed the tournament entirely in 2010.
Kentucky missed the tournament entirely in 2009; had a first round loss in 2008.
Ohio State had 1st round loss in 2009; missed the tournament entirely in 2008.
UCLA missed the tournament entirely in 2012; missed the tournament entirely in 2010.
Florida had a first round loss in 2010; missed the tournament entirely in 2008 and 2009.
Syracuse had a 2nd round loss in 2011; missed the tournament entirely in 2008.
UConn had a first round loss in 2012; missed the tournament entirely in 2010; had a first round loss in 2008.
Louisville had a first round loss in 2010 and 2011.
Kansas had a 2nd round loss in 2010.
Georgetown had a 2nd round loss in 2012; 1st round loss in 2010 and 2011; missed tournament entirely in 2009.


If one embarrassing early round loss means you're not competing, there are a whole lot of teams who aren't competing these days.



According to RSCI, here are Duke's recruiting class ranking since the mid-2000s:

2011: #2 in the country
2010: #9
2009: #8 (didn't include Andre when they ranked it, so it's really higher)
2008: #11
2007: #3
2006: #3
2005: #2

It just so happens that the 2008 recruiting class is this year's senior class. But putting that aside, where's the lull? Do you really expect us to be the top recruiting class every single year?

FWIW, our recruiting was unranked in 2000, 2001, and 2003, so you don't need to bring in the top class every year to succeed.



Do you believe that the more talented team wins every game they play? If not, then you have to accept that the more talented team is going to lose sometimes.



On the 2011-2012 team, out of our ten active scholarship players, we have eight (8) players who were ranked in the top 32 of their class, according to RSCI (I'm including Andre who was around #15 before he re-classified), plus a player who made 3rd team All-ACC this year.

We're recruiting at the highest level. Do you really expect every player we recruit to be top ten? If so, do you really expect we'll get them all?

Yes, with Coach K's record of success, I do think he should try to have a Top-5 recruiting class every year-- even more so, now that he has conceded that he is bringing in players who may stay only one year-- he cannot afford to go even a year without bringing in a player who turns out to be a Top 5-10 overall player, if he wants to compete on an even basis with UNC's talent (and now Kentucky's) because he is likely to lose that very player, the very next year. Although Rivers was not a like for like replacement for Irving, at least there was some comparability in those two players' overall rankings, which gave Duke some hope of matching UNC's talent base this year... unless Duke gets Zeigler Muhammad (and he turns out to be all that and a bag of chips), Duke is going to have a very difficult time reaching the level to which they once were accustomed, next year.

As for the most talented team winning, yes I expect that to happen most of the time-- that's what usually does happen. In the NCAA tournament, it is so rare for a #2 to lose to a #15 seed (reflective of talent disparity), that it had only happened about 6 times previously to this year, and not for about 6 years until Duke and Missouri this year. Moreover, when the more talented team does lose, it is because they usually played with a cocky or entitled attitude, and failed to give maximum effort-- when Duke was on its best string of tournament successes, it rarely ever got beat on effort-- they played SO hard, that they willed themselves to wins, even over teams with more talent (let alone teams with lesser talent). But clearly, even the players on this Duke team did not feel that they played as hard as they are capable of, as was clearly described after the Lehigh game, by Austin Rivers and Miles Plumlee-- pretty shocking that the Duke hallmark, of supreme effort wasn't even there, to go along with the superior talent that Duke fielded in that game-- I didn't expect Duke to start being one of these early round mortality statistics as a direct result of not putting forth the maximum effort-- that had always been the one thing Duke could be counted on for, through thick and thin, high talent or low talent.

In my opinion, there has been a lull recently; I do not think that a team that plays Hairston or Thornton for significant minutes can realistically expect to compete on an even footing with the best teams regularly, any more than UNC can compete at that level with Stillman White at PG-- and in fact, that is the most crucial position-- if Duke does not have a top-flight PG, who can both stop the other teams' top PGs, when on defense, and beat the other teams' top PGs off the dribble on offense, it is going to be very hard for Duke to compete at the level that Coach K hopes for-- all the best K/Duke teams had this, Amaker/Dawkins, Hurley, Wojo/Avery, Williams/Duhon, Scheyer/Smith-- and this team doesn't even begin to have a comparable player/pair. I saw Boeheim say recently that he's really never seen a really good team that didn't have a good PG-- and I find it hard to argue with him.

I've said before that there WAS a Golden Era in Duke Basketball recruiting-- it was at the end of the last century, when Duke was fielding Brand, Battier, Langdon, Avery, Maggette, Carrawell, James, etc., and bringing in Boozer, Dunleavy, Williams, Duhon (and as yet, had no expectation of losing any of those players, so hence was expecting to field all or most of those players simultaneously), and then after losing a number of early departures, was fielding Boozer, Dunleavy, Williams, Duhon, plus Jones, Ewing, etc., and had Redick, Williams, Randolph in the offing... but after that period, Duke has started to spread their recruiting gems ever farther apart, and has not had the kind of talent surplus, to compete on even terms regularly (talent-wise) with UNC for some time now-- particularly when it comes to big men. Shelden is the last one who really panned out, and developed into a big-time low-block scorer (and defender, obviously)... K/Duke are trying to do it with smoke and mirrors, if they think they are going to win championships and go to Final Fours with Hairston, Thornton, (and for different reasons, Dawkins, Plumlee, and probably Gbinje, and Cook) playing major minutes... K is good enough at motivating his troops that sometimes it will still work out (as it did once this year, and once in Hansborough's last year), but Duke will always be fighting an uphill battle, unless the current trend in recruiting is reversed to recapture the trend of the late-90's/early 2000's.

[Mudge]

If you're going to be this condescending, you really ought to have at least some idea what you're talking about. Lance Thomas has played double-figure minutes for the Hornets for 12 consecutive games, averaging 18 minutes a game over that time and averaging almost 7 ppg and almost 3 rpg.

I stand corrected on this relatively small matter-- it doesn't really change the overall argument a wit. I note that the Hornets are having a fine season, and I am sure that Lance is making a big difference in their league success.

[Kedsy]

I stand corrected on this relatively small matter-- it doesn't really change the overall argument a wit. I note that the Hornets are having a fine season, and I am sure that Lance is making a big difference in their league success.

Wow, more condescension. You said you couldn't imagine Lance as an NBA player. Now it matters whether he plays on a winner or not? And you expect people to take your arguments seriously?

Yes, with Coach K's record of success, I do think he should try to have a Top-5 recruiting class every year...

Of course he tries. Everyone tries. But just because he's missed two years out of seven doesn't mean we're in a recruiting "lull."

... but after that period, Duke has started to spread their recruiting gems ever farther apart, and has not had the kind of talent surplus, to compete on even terms regularly (talent-wise) with UNC for some time now--

We haven't been able to compete on even terms with UNC for some time now? Head-to-head we've won 5 of the last 7 games with them, and we've had significantly better teams than UNC two of the last three years.

[Sir Stealth]

I wish this board would just have one single "wailing and gnashing of teeth because we had a bad loss" thread. Saying that Duke has been on a downward trend is completely absurd. We won the national championship in 2010. It is 2012. Our 2011 team was a loaded team that, had it's best player stayed healthy, could have easily been a once-in-a-generation type dominant squad. Even without it's best player, it was an ACC Championship team. It faced a difficult situation with reintegrating a key injured player right as the NCAA tournament started, but absolutely nothing about that team suggested that the program was on a downward trend.

It can make a person dizzy reading criticisms that say that we aren't recruiting well on the one hand and then say that we underperformed the most given our talent on the other. I would say that the latter is much more fair for this season given the Lehigh loss, but ONLY for that one loss, because the team had a largely successful season with wins over many of the good teams that we supposedly don't have the talent to compete with now. It is absurd to say that Duke has an institutional talent gap. The year after losing the number 1 overall pick, another first rounder who was 1st team All-American, and an all-time great within the program who was a top 10 recruit coming out of high school, we still were absolutely loaded with McDonalds All-Americans relative to other teams. We will lose two more first round picks after this year and still have 4 McDonald's AAs on the roster next year, with an additional 3 players (Dawkins, Gbinije, and Murphy) who probably would have been had they progressed through high school in the standard time, and that doesn't even count Seth Curry and his pedigree.

Top level talent is going to ebb and flow year to year, but Duke's has ebbed and flowed much less than any other program in the entire country. The loss to Lehigh was very disappointing, but one loss at the end of a year that was largely successful does not come close to an institutional decline in the program. I personally don't think Shane Ryan ever sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and my opinion didn't change with the Grantland article saying that our program was in decline because our recent NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP somehow didn't fully count, or something. I think that he is a poor representative of our fanbase. I wish people would have a little more perspective before they declare our program to be broken.

[Sir Stealth]

We haven't been able to compete on even terms with UNC for some time now? Head-to-head we've won 5 of the last 7 games with them, and we've had significantly better teams than UNC two of the last three years.

The selective amnesia that seems to be going around is hard to understand. Some people seem to have much more vivid memories of 2007 and 2008 than they do 2010 and 2011.

[ncexnyc]

I guess this must be the counter thread to the optimism one.

Mudge, I'm curious what you felt the ceiling was for this team? I know the vast majority of board members, even those with the thickest, deepest shade of blue lens possible, knew this team had way too many question marks entering the season.

I think you'll also find a number of people starting to acknowledge that the World Tour enabled us to get a jump on a number of the other programs and that contributed to our early season wins and why we got as high as we did in the rankings. Now you might ask, "How did we manage to stay ranked so high?" Well the answer is simple. The team never collapsed and the losses didn't look bad to the casual viewer. The OSU loss was on the road to a highly touted team. The Temple loss was another road game and the score was close. FSU was a buzzer beater after they had smoked UNC. Miami was an OT game. Throw in key wins against UNC and FSU, both away games and it's easy to see why we could still be in the top 10.

Was this a balanced team? No, it wasn't lots of similar parts. Can you blame the Coach for this? Yes, you may if that's how you want to play it. Do I? No I don't. Player develpment isn't an exact science and you can never tell what happens due to players transfering, which has hit us recently.

So considering what we had coming into the season and what our final record was, I'm happy with the year. Does the way it ended sit well with me? No it doesn't, but that's the way the cards were dealt to us.