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  1. #1

    Reasons for Optimism Thread

    I hear a lot of people talking negatively about Austin, next season, this season, etc. I am starting this thread for the purpose of looking on the bright side. Things to list are positive interpretations of recruits comments, video of players we have coming up, current players off-season work ethic for improvement or comments showing drive towards next year or anything that gets you motivated for our next Duke Men's Basketball game (stuff that may get you in trouble for posting in other threads).

    I will start with Alex Murphy and Gbinije getting a shot to give us wings with a little more size (and the growth Gbinije will have). Alex is, in my estimation, going to be something special. He has a year of playing against our team, so he can only have gotten better. Gbinije has the game and just needs the confidence. I think that will come in time for him and sophomore year sounds like a good time to start showing that growth. He is so smooth of a player that he will be able to contribute. He has the athleticism to become a very good defender IMO.



    If this is a bad idea, Mods I will totally understand killing it. I just felt that it may be good for morale to fill the void from an early exit and a likely early exit. I know that I, myself, am a little mixed about next year (fear of the unknown and the slow recruiting year; given that Rasheed is a high quality recruit).

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    I hear a lot of people talking negatively about Austin, next season, this season, etc. I am starting this thread for the purpose of looking on the bright side. Things to list are positive interpretations of recruits comments, video of players we have coming up, current players off-season work ethic for improvement or comments showing drive towards next year or anything that gets you motivated for our next Duke Men's Basketball game (stuff that may get you in trouble for posting in other threads).

    I will start with Alex Murphy and Gbinije getting a shot to give us wings with a little more size (and the growth Gbinije will have). Alex is, in my estimation, going to be something special. He has a year of playing against our team, so he can only have gotten better. Gbinije has the game and just needs the confidence. I think that will come in time for him and sophomore year sounds like a good time to start showing that growth. He is so smooth of a player that he will be able to contribute. He has the athleticism to become a very good defender IMO.



    If this is a bad idea, Mods I will totally understand killing it. I just felt that it may be good for morale to fill the void from an early exit and a likely early exit. I know that I, myself, am a little mixed about next year (fear of the unknown and the slow recruiting year; given that Rasheed is a high quality recruit).

    This is a great idea. This time of the college basketball year is always filled with negativism. We celebrate when teams lose, fret over who will turn pro etc...

    I am looking forward to seeing silent G get significant minutes, alex and MP3 on the court and rasheed. In fact these four (and hopefully a few more) are really Duke's recruiting class. The difference is three of them have already been through a year in the system.

    One other point, is that we need to embrace that Duke is a guard/wing oriented team. What I want to see is if silent G, alex and rasheed can give us multiple slashers and better wing defense. Keep in mind Duke's championship teams were not full of dominate front courts but dominant wings that played great defense.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    Keep in mind Duke's championship teams were not full of dominate front courts but dominant wings that played great defense.
    Strongly disagree. Our championship teams had great, dominant frontcourts. Our championship teams were strong at every position.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    I hear a lot of people talking negatively about Austin, next season, this season, etc. I am starting this thread for the purpose of looking on the bright side. Things to list are positive interpretations of recruits comments, video of players we have coming up, current players off-season work ethic for improvement or comments showing drive towards next year or anything that gets you motivated for our next Duke Men's Basketball game (stuff that may get you in trouble for posting in other threads).

    I will start with Alex Murphy and Gbinije getting a shot to give us wings with a little more size (and the growth Gbinije will have). Alex is, in my estimation, going to be something special. He has a year of playing against our team, so he can only have gotten better. Gbinije has the game and just needs the confidence. I think that will come in time for him and sophomore year sounds like a good time to start showing that growth. He is so smooth of a player that he will be able to contribute. He has the athleticism to become a very good defender IMO.



    If this is a bad idea, Mods I will totally understand killing it. I just felt that it may be good for morale to fill the void from an early exit and a likely early exit. I know that I, myself, am a little mixed about next year (fear of the unknown and the slow recruiting year; given that Rasheed is a high quality recruit).
    I meant the early exit and a likely early departure or two.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    Strongly disagree. Our championship teams had great, dominant frontcourts. Our championship teams were strong at every position.
    Yeah, but the definition of dominant has changed for them. With the 2009 team, we had a dominant front court in defense and rebounding. Our wings were the skill players on the team that executed the sets to perfection. The bigs there were hard working players who feared nothing, knew their goals and refused to let anybody get the best of them on the glass or in the paint. They were great for that team, but would not have been considered "great" by the same standards that 1992/1993/2001 were. I'd like to get Parker just to have a little more depth on the inside. We could use it. That is not to mention that it would be a change of pace that could confuse our opponents. If we don't get him, Mason needs to stay to help his little brother handle the load on the inside. Ryan is a key, but we need more than two true bigs.

  6. #6

    I am always optimstic

    when we have Coach K.

    Actually I think we will play better as a team. We will miss Mason(if he goes) more than Austin.

    I can't wait for the season to start.

    SoCal

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    This is a great idea. This time of the college basketball year is always filled with negativism. We celebrate when teams lose, fret over who will turn pro etc...

    I am looking forward to seeing silent G get significant minutes, alex and MP3 on the court and rasheed. In fact these four (and hopefully a few more) are really Duke's recruiting class. The difference is three of them have already been through a year in the system.

    One other point, is that we need to embrace that Duke is a guard/wing oriented team. What I want to see is if silent G, alex and rasheed can give us multiple slashers and better wing defense. Keep in mind Duke's championship teams were not full of dominate front courts but dominant wings that played great defense.
    I appreciate our perimeter. I know that it is the trademark of Duke teams. I want to see us utilize the guys with athleticism next year. I think we can do it, too. This year was a big weird. We didn't really execute in the half court towards the end. We relied on isolation. That may have been to utilize Austin's ability to take defenders one on one. I look for K to start looking to execute traditional offense again with a lineup that is more versatile. I like the idea of recruiting players that have played with other top prospects on a regular basis. The reason for this is that they don't feel the pressure to BE the team. MKG and Kyrie were the best things that could have happened to one another because of that.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    I always look forward to the improvements of the underclassmen just as much as seeing the new incoming freshman. It was a joy for example in recent years, to see the jumps that Gerald Henderson made, Freshman to Sophomore year, and Nolan made, Sophomore to Junior year. It's great watching that development.

    Thus, I look forward to seeing Murphy, Gbinije, MP3, to name a few, next year. Even though we did not get a look at Murphy and MP3 beyond China and the exhibitions, we saw enough to know they needed growth. Murphy looked amazing to me in AAU ball attacking the basket from the wing. I look forward to the day he is comfortable enough and strong enough to do that in a Duke uni. Gbinije has incredible hops, and once he figures out how to use that ability effectively, he is going to be good. MP3 has lots of potential as a true back to the basket post guy, and just needs strength. Plus, he has a nasty streak in him, in that he is not going to back down. No one will ever label MP3 as soft.

    I think all 3 of those guys have potential to be really good college players. Their day will come its just a matter of how soon. I am also excited about potentially adding the Ziegler kid.

    The thing that will inspire me the most this spring though is to hear the news that Mason will return for his Sr year. We really need him back badly.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    Strongly disagree. Our championship teams had great, dominant frontcourts. Our championship teams were strong at every position.
    Time to define positions. Keep in mind all of these guys are champions so I am not trying to demean any of their talents.

    2010: Front court: Z, Lance, Miles --- Mason as a freshman; This team was driven by Jon, Nolan and Kyle. Perhaps Kyle is part of the front court but to me he was a wing.

    2001: Front court: Sanders, Boozer, Battier (or was he a wing) Wings/Guards: Williams, Dunleavy, Duhon, James. This team was driven by Williams and Battier.

    1991-92 (I am combining these): Front Court: Parks, Laettner, Hill (or was he a wing) Wings/Guards: Hurley, Davis, Thomas, Lang, Koubek... This team was driven by Hurley and Laettner.

    Although there are some back to the basket big men in there, guards and wings drove these teams.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Someone besides me started an Optimism thread? I'm impressed! Great idea!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    I'm excited to see Seth, Andre and Ryan as seniors in the program. I for one have questioned the leadership skills of these guys but I know how being a senior and knowing this is your last shot brings out the best in you. I expect the 3 of them to have big seasons and if they do we could be in for a fun ride.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Someone besides me started an Optimism thread? I'm impressed! Great idea!
    Much appreciated. I was just thinking to myself, a while ago, that in a year where we have a guy that people compare to Nolan coming in and a guy who has been referred to as Singler V 2.0 that just spent a year practicing our system, how could we be this down? It may be an uphill climb to get back into Final Four contention, but we have some very good players that will surely make it fun to watch along the way.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    boston, ma
    Reasons for optimism: We have the pieces for a high-ceiling team and a title-contender if Mason comes back:

    PG: Quinn backed up by Tyler
    SG: Seth/Rasheed and hopefully Andre learns how to dribble (seriously what has the kid been working on the last two offseasons?)
    SF: Mike/Alex
    Post rotation: Marshall/Ryan/Josh/Mason?/Tony Parker?

    If it's just Marshall/Ryan/Josh in the post with no Mason and no Tony, I'd be so happy to make it out of the first weekend.

    If Quinn is serviceable on defense at PG, then he takes our team to a whole new level being a playmaking PG, but if we still have Seth/Tyler getting the bulk of the minutes at point, next year might not be pretty. Cmon Quinn, practice those defensive slides this summer.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Come to Duke, Bazz!

    30 Jr Thorn...................... ..[So Cook]
    25 Sr Curry......25 Fr Sulaimon......[Jr Dawkins]
    30 Fr Bazz.......10 So Gbinije........{Jr Zeigler}
    30 Sr Kelly......10 Fr Amile..........Jr Hairston
    25 Sr Oriakhi......15 Fr Murphy........Fr MP3


    Sulaimon's going to be a stud and our 6th man.

    That team could get another 1 seed. Getting Bazz is the key.
    Last edited by Troublemaker; 03-25-2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason: added years to backups

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Maybe we should hold off on this thread until we see exactly who will be on next year's team.

  16. #16

    True, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Maybe we should hold off on this thread until we see exactly who will be on next year's team.
    we should have at least three returning starters (Kelly, Curry, and Thorton) and some experienced reserves (Dawkins, Cook, Hairston), so Coach K will have a good foundation to work with. All of them should show the natural improvement of one more year of experience, but I expect that in order to excel we will need Gbinije and the freshmen to make a solid contribution (Murphy, Marshall, Sulaimon). I'm optimistic all that can happen.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    Time to define positions. Keep in mind all of these guys are champions so I am not trying to demean any of their talents.

    2010: Front court: Z, Lance, Miles --- Mason as a freshman; This team was driven by Jon, Nolan and Kyle. Perhaps Kyle is part of the front court but to me he was a wing.

    2001: Front court: Sanders, Boozer, Battier (or was he a wing) Wings/Guards: Williams, Dunleavy, Duhon, James. This team was driven by Williams and Battier.

    1991-92 (I am combining these): Front Court: Parks, Laettner, Hill (or was he a wing) Wings/Guards: Hurley, Davis, Thomas, Lang, Koubek... This team was driven by Hurley and Laettner.

    Although there are some back to the basket big men in there, guards and wings drove these teams.
    I consider forwards and centers to be front court players. I think that is the standard definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_position

    Singler is a front court player. He can play center, but not point guard. To me, he's very obviously a front court player. If Battier isn't a front court player, then I don't know what is. He's pretty much a small forward/power forward 'tweener with college PF size.

    I consider a "wing" player pretty much the same thing as a small forward. A small forward is a front court player.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Fe, TN

    Defensive intensity

    To me, the difference between Duke's good years and their so -so years is defensive intensity, that commitment that the other team is not going to score. I would encourage you to look at the video about the 1991-92 squad and, if you have it, re-run the video on the two 2010 Final Four victories. You see teams that were exceptional on defense. This year we were porously poor on defense. We can talk about athleticism but if the mind-set is "I can't wait to get the ball so I can score" we might as well be UNC or UK with John Wall's class. When we dominate teams and score effectively, it's because of our defense.

    While I am an optimist when it comes to Duke basketball, the last half of the year we were not effective on defense. It's not that Duke couldn't play good defense but we were inconsistent and sometimes disinterested in it. Duke lost to teams that were willing to make that commitment.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    I consider forwards and centers to be front court players. I think that is the standard definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_position

    Singler is a front court player. He can play center, but not point guard. To me, he's very obviously a front court player. If Battier isn't a front court player, then I don't know what is. He's pretty much a small forward/power forward 'tweener with college PF size.

    I consider a "wing" player pretty much the same thing as a small forward. A small forward is a front court player.
    I think the old-school definitions don't really apply anymore. The college game has evolved so much that the "frontcourt/backcourt" designations are in many ways obsolete. I think there are several distinctions:

    Bigs: These are the guys who do the work inside defensively. They can have perimeter games, but their primary defensive assignments (and best skill sets defensively) are on the interior). Guys like Zoubek, the Plumlees, Kelly, McRoberts, Williams, Laettner, Brand, etc fit that mold.

    Wings: These are guys who aren't really suited to play in the post but also aren't really distributors or primary ballhandlers. Guys like Redick, Henderson, Singler, James, Dunleavy, and Dawkins, Langdon, etc fit here.

    Playmakers: These are the guys that make things happen with the ball in their hands. They usually play PG, but can sometimes be off-ball guys too. Guys like Duhon, Irving, Smith, Scheyer, Hurley, Williams, Dawkins, Avery etc fit here.

    Sometimes we have guys who can span multiple roles. Battier, Hill, and Deng fit this description as guys who could play the post or the wing (or even playmaker in Hill's latter years).

    Duke has historically done well when we've had a good playmaker, good length and athleticism at the wings, and a versatile PF who could defend both bigs and wings. The C spot has been variable in terms of offensive contribution, but typically this spot has not been a weakness on our better teams.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Someone besides me started an Optimism thread? I'm impressed! Great idea!
    He heard you were OOT. As you know, Ozzie, you are often imitated but never duplicated ;>)) .
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

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