MBB: Midwest Region Final - Kansas 80, UNC 67

[freedevil]

Bum, bada bum bum bada bum bum, Go Devils!
Bum, bada bum bum bada bum bum, Go Devils!

Thank God for Bill Self. And now there's someone (Thomas Robinson) to actually root for in this thing (other than Greg Paulus).

[OldSchool]

I wonder about Barnes in the NBA. What's his position? I assume he will be a three, but I don't think either his size or athleticism are above average for an NBA three. Not to say I don't think he will make the NBA, but I think he will have to become a much more consistent shooter and driver if he wants to be more than just another NBA player. And if you watch much NBA, you know that NBA defense, particularly once the playoffs start, is often ferocious in a way I've never seen out of him. Has he really improved much over last year? I think a lot of college fans don't watch much NBA, and don't understand just how much higher the level of play is.

Yes, a three. My own observation is that he is quite athletic and highly coordinated, which we see in flashes now and then, but that his constrained role within UNC's team with Zeller and Henson limited his potential.

[Newton_14]

Barnes will be a better NBA player than a college player.

With the post clogged by Henson and Zeller and given the slow pace of the college game (even for teams that like to run) compared to the NBA, Barnes turns into mostly a jump shooter. Even when they give him the ball to post up his man Zeller and Henson can't really pull their defenders out of the paint. Given a higher paced game and NBA style offense, Barnes will be more effective.

I will respectfully disagree. Barnes has great trouble taking college defenders to the rack, due to lack of ball handling, and athletic ability. His spin moves are incredibly awkward off the bounce. He is not a great leaper, and simply uses his length, strength, and height to finish (when he does finish). In the NBA, he will be defended by great athlete's, who are just as strong and just as quick, night in and night out. I don't think he has shown the ability to be successful in that scenario.

I also agree that coming back next year is a high risk move. He was safely in the lottery last year, but will slide to late lottery if he comes out now. Should he return and have another so so year, he likely slips down into late first round. That is a lot of money.

Barnes has an incredibly tough choice in front of him. Will be interesting to see what he does.

[Devilsfan]

Someone needs to explain to Mr. Barnes that a falcon is a bird of prey. He is such a nice guy (helping an opponent from getting hurt on the base line) that he may have chosen the wrong school to go to. Except for an ill advised skipe recruiting announcement he seems like an intelligent (Duke like) young man.

[Greg_Newton]

I count 15: Marshall, Strickland, McDonald, Hairston, Bullock, Barnes, Paige, Takoto, McAdoo, Hubert, James, Johnson, Henson, Simmons, White. Now I don't know what White's status is (redshirts count against your scholarship count - not sure how Mormon missions count). And Simmons could theoretically be relieved of his scholarship for a year. But that's still 13 even without those two guys.

I'm pretty sure Mormon missions don't count against your scholarships (or why they would) - I think that was one of the main reasons Roy recruited him in the first place. And Simmons came in with the understanding that he was an "invited walk-on" that could play on the varsity, with scholarship stuff "working itself out" - I don't think they'd hesitate to pull that if necessary, so they'd be fine even if everyone came back.

However, that better not be an issue!

[OldSchool]

I will respectfully disagree. Barnes has great trouble taking college defenders to the rack, due to lack of ball handling, and athletic ability. His spin moves are incredibly awkward off the bounce. He is not a great leaper, and simply uses his length, strength, and height to finish (when he does finish). In the NBA, he will be defended by great athlete's, who are just as strong and just as quick, night in and night out. I don't think he has shown the ability to be successful in that scenario.

I also agree that coming back next year is a high risk move. He was safely in the lottery last year, but will slide to late lottery if he comes out now. Should he return and have another so so year, he likely slips down into late first round. That is a lot of money.

Barnes has an incredibly tough choice in front of him. Will be interesting to see what he does.

I certainly agree with you that he should go pro now. I will be completely gob-smacked if he doesn't.

[El_Diablo]

I count 15: Marshall, Strickland, McDonald, Hairston, Bullock, Barnes, Paige, Takoto, McAdoo, Hubert, James, Johnson, Henson, Simmons, White. Now I don't know what White's status is (redshirts count against your scholarship count - not sure how Mormon missions count). And Simmons could theoretically be relieved of his scholarship for a year. But that's still 13 even without those two guys.

Simmons was recruited as a non-scholarship player (I believe they called him a "preferred walk-on" or something like that) and White will not count against them.

[Furniture]

Berkeley said Mcadoo was the best player in the first half. Where was he in the second?
Did ole Roy even give any playing time?

I am SO happy!

[gumbomoop]

I count 15: Marshall, Strickland, McDonald, Hairston, Bullock, Barnes, Paige, Takoto, McAdoo, Hubert, James, Johnson, Henson, Simmons, White. Now I don't know what White's status is (redshirts count against your scholarship count - not sure how Mormon missions count). And Simmons could theoretically be relieved of his scholarship for a year. But that's still 13 even without those two guys.

This is going to get confusing, and it'll all work out in the next month. But I think you and I are saying the same thing. The issue is: if all of the 4 return, what's the Heels' scholarship situation?

I, too, count 13 [the limit], if, as I believe, White's mission years don't count as a scholly; and if Simmons is on the "you-have-a-scholly-if-one's-available" deal. Isn't Simmons, technically, a walk-on, but on scholly this year?

[robobevan]

Harrison Barnes is Ricky Price with a better outside shot. Both are limited by a poor handle.

[Reilly]

UNC -- offensive juggernaut!


0 pts. in last 3:58...

So that means the Heels played 39:46 @ FSU and 36:02 today?

[superdave]

As for Barnes... his confidence went off a cliff.

Unpossible.

[OldSchool]

Someone needs to explain to Mr. Barnes that a falcon is a bird of prey. He is such a nice guy (helping an opponent from getting hurt on the base line) that he may have chosen the wrong school to go to. Except for an ill advised skipe recruiting announcement he seems like an intelligent (Duke like) young man.

As much as K is criticized for big men, he has turned out some great small forwards like Hill, Battier, Deng, Singler.

Barnes may have done better in K's system than Roy's, but he would have had to play behind Kyle for a year.

[Indoor66]

So Duke/UNC split the season series, neither won the ACC tournament, and neither made the Final Four. I'm calling this season a tie! Bring on 2013!

Except that we have a win over Kansas this year.

[Billy Dat]

Bill Simmons ‏ @sportsguy33
When it rains in LA, every driver turns into Harrison Barnes during a big game.

[FerryFor50]

I know that White will be gone for 2 years on his mission trip .

Crud! Where are they going to find another 1-2 star PG??

[FerryFor50]

I will respectfully disagree. Barnes has great trouble taking college defenders to the rack, due to lack of ball handling, and athletic ability. His spin moves are incredibly awkward off the bounce. He is not a great leaper, and simply uses his length, strength, and height to finish (when he does finish). In the NBA, he will be defended by great athlete's, who are just as strong and just as quick, night in and night out. I don't think he has shown the ability to be successful in that scenario.

I also agree that coming back next year is a high risk move. He was safely in the lottery last year, but will slide to late lottery if he comes out now. Should he return and have another so so year, he likely slips down into late first round. That is a lot of money.

Barnes has an incredibly tough choice in front of him. Will be interesting to see what he does.

Personally I think Barnes is lazy... doesn't put the work in and seems to take plays off in games.

I wonder if it's personality or arrogance... or a little of both.

[CDu]

This is going to get confusing, and it'll all work out in the next month. But I think you and I are saying the same thing. The issue is: if all of the 4 return, what's the Heels' scholarship situation?

I, too, count 13 [the limit], if, as I believe, White's mission years don't count as a scholly; and if Simmons is on the "you-have-a-scholly-if-one's-available" deal. Isn't Simmons, technically, a walk-on, but on scholly this year?

Yup. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Marshall and Henson are the keys. Barnes and McAdoo sre nice players but without Marshall and Henson that is a fairly "meh" team.

[cspan37421]

But the thing is...by next year, or 2 years down the road, nobody will remember anything other than we split with UNC, neither team won the natty, and rivers' shot...10 years down the road nobody is going to say "but they won a few more games overall"

They may not remember those things but I assure you, UNC fans will remember Lehigh, even more than we recount Weber State - you can count on it. They'll probably remember the blowout in Cameron for awhile, but at least it wasn't 82-50. For awhile it looked like it might be.

But yes, we'll always remember AR's "the shot" - even more if Zeller proves to be as exasperatingly solid in the NBA as he was in college.

[Newton_14]

Guys, cut out the sniping. This is a celebratory thread. Enjoy the fall of the Heels and stop taking shots at each other.