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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    He's just a big, rugged player, strong rebounder and defender on the wing, and a veteran player who has proven he can score. That's something we haven't had at the wing the past couple of years, and I think it's something Coach K wants to employ as soon as possible.
    Well, this past season may have seemed like a couple of years, but in 2011 we had Kyle Singler.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    I think he's been trying for those types of players all along but they just keep going to other schools. It happens.

    I also think that he was focusing on a PG, so maybe put more energy into that the past couple of years.
    Perhaps you're right. It seems though that we're expanding the search on the wings past just the top-tier guys though. Obviously we'll still try to get the Muhammad's of the world, but we're also going into the slightly lower reaches of the rankings for SF. And I agree on PG. In the past two classes we've added Thornton, Irving, and Cook as PG and Rivers as a lead guard. But we've also added Gbinije and Murphy and are looking at Zeigler, Muhammad, Outlaw, Jabari Parker, Wainright, Wiggins, and Pinson (all 6'5"-6'7" SF prospects ranging from top of the class to solid, 4-star guys).

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Well, this past season may have seemed like a couple of years, but in 2011 we had Kyle Singler.
    You're right. My bad. Total brain spasm there.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Perhaps you're right. It seems though that we're expanding the search on the wings past just the top-tier guys though. Obviously we'll still try to get the Muhammad's of the world, but we're also going into the slightly lower reaches of the rankings for SF. And I agree on PG. In the past two classes we've added Thornton, Irving, and Cook as PG and Rivers as a lead guard. But we've also added Gbinije and Murphy and are looking at Zeigler, Muhammad, Outlaw, Jabari Parker, Wainright, Wiggins, and Pinson (all 6'5"-6'7" SF prospects ranging from top of the class to solid, 4-star guys).
    All I know is, K knows what he is doing. So I trust how he's been recruiting, even if only having one signee so far makes me a little nervous.

  5. #145

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    I think he's been trying for those types of players all along but they just keep going to other schools. It happens.

    I also think that he was focusing on a PG, so maybe put more energy into that the past couple of years.
    But if what both you and CDu are saying is the bottom line, (and I agree we want more of those players) help me understand why in the heck we did not use the one player that we had last year like that??? He was highly regarded (#28 RSCI) and still did not get meaningful minutes even after Kelly went down. We played (Quinn, Seth, Andre, Tyler) all shortish guards along with Austin and left him on the bench. Perhaps he was that bad in practice...but it's hard to believe this.

    The easier explanation is that the other guys were more experienced and pretty effective and K played what he thought was the 5 best players at any given time, regardless of height and ultimate potential, who were most familiar with the system.

    If experience and system knowledge matter more than ultimate capability and physical attributes, in all but the most extreme of talents (Kyrie/Austin), then that explains last year and it suggests that TZ or any other newcomer will have some of the same hurdles to securing playing time, right?

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluealum View Post
    But if what both you and CDu are saying is the bottom line, (and I agree we want more of those players) help me understand why in the heck we did not use the one player that we had last year like that??? He was highly regarded (#28 RSCI) and still did not get meaningful minutes even after Kelly went down. We played (Quinn, Seth, Andre, Tyler) all shortish guards along with Austin and left him on the bench. Perhaps he was that bad in practice...but it's hard to believe this.
    I think that recruiting rankings aren't the be-all end-all. Gbinije was definitely an afterthought in last year's McDonald's game. It's very reasonable to think that he was just not ready. The Kelly injury is irrelevant. Kelly played PF and we had 3 other big men to turn to in place of Gbinije. If Rivers or Dawkins got hurt, that argument would apply. But I think lack of readiness played a big part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluealum View Post
    The easier explanation is that the other guys were more experienced and pretty effective and K played what he thought was the 5 best players at any given time, regardless of height and ultimate potential, who were most familiar with the system.
    That's a possible explanation. But it doesn't explain why Rivers and Cook (both freshmen as well, and in Cook's case a similarly-rated player) logged starts and saw at least regular PT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluealum View Post
    If experience and system knowledge matter more than ultimate capability and physical attributes, in all but the most extreme of talents (Kyrie/Austin), then that explains last year and it suggests that TZ or any other newcomer will have some of the same hurdles to securing playing time, right?
    It will be a hurdle. It is not a hurdle can't be overcome, nor is it one that isn't regularly overcome. Coach K has regularly started elite freshmen (for reference, take a look back through the RSCI and see how many of the RSCI top-10 recruits we've had that didn't start 20+ games as a freshman). Now think of Zeigler as a top 10-15 freshman rather than the top-30 recruit he was out of high school (by virtue of having two years of physical maturity and college basketball experience). You see why I think he'd be a very likely start next year.

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Columbus OH 614
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think that recruiting rankings aren't the be-all end-all. Gbinije was definitely an afterthought in last year's McDonald's game. It's very reasonable to think that he was just not ready. The Kelly injury is irrelevant. Kelly played PF and we had 3 other big men to turn to in place of Gbinije. If Rivers or Dawkins got hurt, that argument would apply. But I think lack of readiness played a big part.



    That's a possible explanation. But it doesn't explain why Rivers and Cook (both freshmen as well, and in Cook's case a similarly-rated player) logged starts and saw at least regular PT.



    It will be a hurdle. It is not a hurdle can't be overcome, nor is it one that isn't regularly overcome. Coach K has regularly started elite freshmen (for reference, take a look back through the RSCI and see how many of the RSCI top-10 recruits we've had that didn't start 20+ games as a freshman). Now think of Zeigler as a top 10-15 freshman rather than the top-30 recruit he was out of high school (by virtue of having two years of physical maturity and college basketball experience). You see why I think he'd be a very likely start next year.

    Not true at all....Mike was a 5th years senior which is why he wasn't a McDonalds AA....same with Quincy Miller, same as Alex if he had not came back to his original class, Dre also....none of them had the possibility of being McDonalds boys...

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by dcar1985 View Post
    Not true at all....Mike was a 5th years senior which is why he wasn't a McDonalds AA....same with Quincy Miller, same as Alex if he had not came back to his original class, Dre also....none of them had the possibility of being McDonalds boys...
    My mistake. He was an afterthought in the Jordan Classic (against a bunch of the same guys who played in the McDonald's game), not the McDonald's game. Same point, different all-star game.

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Columbus OH 614
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    My mistake. He was an afterthought in the Jordan Classic (against a bunch of the same guys who played in the McDonald's game), not the McDonald's game. Same point, different all-star game.
    I thought you meant afterthought as far as being selected to participate in the game, my mistake....even still, 10 pts in 16 mins in comparisons to some of the other top players.

    MKG 12 pts in 28 mins

    Austin 16 pts in 31 mins

    PJ Hairston 7 pts in 16 mins

    Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 4 pts in 15 mins

    Kyle Wiltjer 8 pts in 18 mins

    I wouldn't say he was an afterthought at all....

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by dcar1985 View Post
    I thought you meant afterthought as far as being selected to participate in the game, my mistake....even still, 10 pts in 16 mins in comparisons to some of the other top players.

    MKG 12 pts in 28 mins

    Austin 16 pts in 31 mins

    PJ Hairston 7 pts in 16 mins

    Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 4 pts in 15 mins

    Kyle Wiltjer 8 pts in 18 mins

    I wouldn't say he was an afterthought at all....
    Stats aren't the best way to look at it, because these games are such messes that there are a ton of free buckets to be had in transition. If you watched that game, Gbinije was an afterthought. It was a lot of McAdoo, Davis, Wroten, Rivers (who shot really poorly but looked very good with the ball in his hands), and Beal. Kidd-Gilchrist was definitely quieter, but he was more of a presence. In looking back at the box score, MKG didn't score much, but he was 5-8 from the field (Gbinije was 4-12) and missed 6 FT and added 7 rebounds (Gbinije 2) and 2 steals.

    I'm not sure why you mention Caldwell-Pope, Wiltjer, and Hairston as "other top players", as those guys were all either afterthoughts or mediocre players on bad teams this year.

  11. #151
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    So, just to get back to Alex Oriakhi, has there been any indication that he would, in fact, be interested in transferring to Duke? So far I've seen it reported that Duke (along with other schools) would probably be getting in touch with him, and that he would not consider Duke--always according to "sources." Does anyone know whether either of these reports is accurate?

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Columbus OH 614
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Stats aren't the best way to look at it, because these games are such messes that there are a ton of free buckets to be had in transition. If you watched that game, Gbinije was an afterthought. It was a lot of McAdoo, Davis, Wroten, Rivers (who shot really poorly but looked very good with the ball in his hands), and Beal. Kidd-Gilchrist was definitely quieter, but he was more of a presence. In looking back at the box score, MKG didn't score much, but he was 5-8 from the field (Gbinije was 4-12) and missed 6 FT and added 7 rebounds (Gbinije 2) and 2 steals.

    I'm not sure why you mention Caldwell-Pope, Wiltjer, and Hairston as "other top players", as those guys were all either afterthoughts or mediocre players on bad teams this year.
    They also played double his minutes....an All Star game isn't the best way to look at anything IMO tho....I mentioned those guys cause they were either similarly ranked or ranked above Mike...if you wanna look at pure stats though, for the limited minutes he played his stats weren't bad, he shot over 50% from the field, and 40% from 3....Mike clearly didn't know the system this year, its not an issue of talent
    Last edited by dcar1985; 03-30-2012 at 01:18 PM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    So, just to get back to Alex Oriakhi, has there been any indication that he would, in fact, be interested in transferring to Duke? So far I've seen it reported that Duke (along with other schools) would probably be getting in touch with him, and that he would not consider Duke--always according to "sources." Does anyone know whether either of these reports is accurate?
    I don't think there's been any information about him one way or the other. There haven't been any Duke visits by him and I haven't seen any actual quotes by him. I suspect he's going to wait to see where all the dominos fall with early entry and incoming freshmen before he makes any firm decisions.

  14. #154

    FWIW

    Zags is usually in the know.

    Adam Zagoria ‏ @AdamZagoria
    Former UConn forward Alex Oriakhi is considering visiting Carolina, Duke, Washington & Gonzaga, source tells @SNYtv

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pappa View Post
    Zags is usually in the know.

    Adam Zagoria ‏ @AdamZagoria
    Former UConn forward Alex Oriakhi is considering visiting Carolina, Duke, Washington & Gonzaga, source tells @SNYtv
    Link: http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/03/31/o...ulling-visits/

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pappa View Post
    Zags is usually in the know.

    Adam Zagoria ‏ @AdamZagoria
    Former UConn forward Alex Oriakhi is considering visiting Carolina, Duke, Washington & Gonzaga, source tells @SNYtv
    That's an interesting list. I presume his decision (and our desire for him) will hinge a lot on what MP, AJ, and TP do. I'm glad there at least appears to be some interest in us from his end as it's always good to have options.

  17. #157
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by dukedoc View Post
    That's an interesting list. I presume his decision (and our desire for him) will hinge a lot on what MP, AJ, and TP do. I'm glad there at least appears to be some interest in us from his end as it's always good to have options.
    It IS an interesting list--especially since it includes four schools in two states--across the country from each other.

  18. #158
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    All I know is, K knows what he is doing. So I trust how he's been recruiting, even if only having one signee so far makes me a little nervous.
    He is not surrounding himself with best possible talent like he did in the decade of the Nineties.Supposedly he is casting a wider net, but the results have not really been that good.It could all change for the better on April 10 or 11.

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by heyman25 View Post
    He is not surrounding himself with best possible talent like he did in the decade of the Nineties.Supposedly he is casting a wider net, but the results have not really been that good.It could all change for the better on April 10 or 11.
    Ah, the distorted lens of time. We landed Grant Hill in 1990, and the great Brand, Battier, Avery class in 1997, but from 1991 to 1996 our recruits' resumes were significantly less accomplished than they have been in the last six or seven years.

    Since 2005 we have had four top 5 classes, and the other three have all been at least top 11. If those "results have not really been that good" what would you consider good?

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Ah, the distorted lens of time. We landed Grant Hill in 1990, and the great Brand, Battier, Avery class in 1997, but from 1991 to 1996 our recruits' resumes were significantly less accomplished than they have been in the last six or seven years.

    Since 2005 we have had four top 5 classes, and the other three have all been at least top 11. If those "results have not really been that good" what would you consider good?
    And we don't have the most players of any school in the NBA-- OH WAIT.

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