Kendall Marshall Wrist Watch

[DesertDevil]

@GaryParrishCBS Source close to UNC. Kendall Marshall will have surgery Monday. Hopeful he'll play in S16. But considered "unlikely."

Supposedly Kendall's dad also posted on Facebook that he will get surgery tomorrow and "could" play Friday.

This seems insane.

I have to assume the aforementioned "surgery" just refers to putting a screw in a non-displaced fracture, or something. Still, seems pretty reckless.

Agree that it seems pretty reckless, but in the end I guess it's Kendall's (and his family's) decision. I would hate to see him risk any long term effects.

[#1Duke]

I'm sure he's getting the best medical care available and that everything has been explained to Kendall and his family.
I am sure it will be Kendall's decision whether to play or not.
I would be surprised if he plays at all Friday considering who UNC will be playing... after that, who knows at this point.
I give the guy credit though. He got up as if nothing happened and continued to play.
I think he's the type that will play if at all possible but can't help thinking/agreeing that it IS reckless also.

[Greg_Newton]

@GaryParrishCBS Source close to UNC. Kendall Marshall will have surgery Monday. Hopeful he'll play in S16. But considered "unlikely."

Supposedly Kendall's dad also posted on Facebook that he will get surgery tomorrow and "could" play Friday.

This seems insane.

I have to assume the aforementioned "surgery" just refers to putting a screw in a non-displaced fracture, or something. Still, seems pretty reckless.

The more I hear about this from smart people, the more absurd this possibility seems.

Any medical types on here who can clarify? The impression I get that any full-contact sports in the first month after surgery would mean a huge health sacrifice on Marshall's part, even if it was just "putting a screw in". Something not really adding up - I'm wondering if it's just Kendall's dad wanting him to play so bad that he made a clueless statement. He's not exactly the most level-headed type.

[dahntaysdawg]

The more I hear about this from smart people, the more absurd this possibility seems.

Any medical types on here who can clarify? The impression I get that any full-contact sports in the first month after surgery would mean a huge health sacrifice on Marshall's part, even if it was just "putting a screw in". Something not really adding up - I'm wondering if it's just Kendall's dad wanting him to play so bad that he made a clueless statement. He's not exactly the most level-headed type.

From links that have been provided on other boards I gather the standard recovery time for the option they've selected is almost 8 weeks. I also read that it would depend mostly on his ability to handle the pain. He may try and play but I don't know if this is going to be in his best interest. And I subscribe to your theory on his father, that's probably exactly what's going on.

[#1Duke]

From what I have read about this type of injury, much seems to depend on EXACTLY what kind of damage the individual received... full fracture, partial fracture... ligament damage... was the bone displaced etc.
A screw for CERTAIN damage seems the appropriate course of action and in some cases is the permanent fix.
I don't know if anyone outside of his doctors and immediate family know exactly the damage he sustained.
"MAYBE" a very small incision and screw will fix him up but right now I think anyone would be guessing.

From what I have read the cast route takes anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months to heal.
I'm guessing that the biggest concern at this time would be preventing any nerve damage which is a concern in this type injury.... or so I have read.

[Johnny Chill]

I wouldnt be surprised if Marshall plays in the Elite 8. UNC doesnt need him against Ohio. If NC State somehow beats Kansas, UNC wouldnt need Marshall until the final 4.

[Greg_Newton]

From links that have been provided on other boards I gather the standard recovery time for the option they've selected is almost 8 weeks. I also read that it would depend mostly on his ability to handle the pain. He may try and play but I don't know if this is going to be in his best interest. And I subscribe to your theory on his father, that's probably exactly what's going on.

I'm not sure about the bolded, though - I think there would be significant long-term risks to his health. Arthritis, and a couple other things. Also the fact that he could get hacked during a game (very possible/probably) and have the already fractured bone become displaced, even with a screw in it.

I imagine there will be significant clarification tomorrow, in any case.

[UrinalCake]

I don't know how it happened, and I doubt it was intentional, but Creighton was fouling HARD that game. See the video below. Watch the double fore-arm to Zeller's neck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IYQ0...e_gdata_player

Wow, that was just blatant. Reminded me of this foul by FSU on Singler a couple years ago. I really wish the refs could use video replay and eject players for stuff like this.

[-bdbd]

"Heels Win But Are Done"

I would NEVER use that as a headline until a scoreboard shows they are done.

A lot of time for a miracle heal. Won't believe he's NOT playing until I see him in civvies.

?? "WON AND DONE???"

I agree with those who've said that this is the most irreplaceable player on the NC squad. It hurts both the O and the D, but affects EVERY POSSESSION on the offfense. They will have to slow down and feed the interior an awful lot without him. They caught a big break with their seeding and how that region has played out though. So this doesn't kill them, but I think they'd have preferred ANY other player than KM to go down. Sad to see for such a talented kid.

Actually, the two big State fans I've spoken with tonight actually preferred NOT to play NC a fourth time - I think it's the fear of the impact/trauma of losing to them yet again and what it'd mean to the fanbase/school. Personally, I would just love that drama. I've certainly been rooting for State this weekend. They've suffered plenty long over in Raleigh. I dunnno, from here I think it could be very cathartic...


Johnny Chill :
I wouldn't be surprised if Marshall plays in the Elite 8. UNC doesnt need him against Ohio. If NC State somehow beats Kansas, UNC wouldnt need Marshall until the final 4.

I really think they'd be favored against Ohio, even without Marshall (or a much-reduced role for him). But maybe they're a slight underdog to Purdue or a hot State squad. However, I just don't see them getting past a squad like Kansas in the FF without him (and just forget about speedy KY). Next weekend, in any event, this will impact their style of play, as they undoubtably become more halfcourt oriented. But a lot of post feeds to Zeller and Henson can still get it done against a smaller team like Ohio. I think Huck has to prepare his team as if KM won't play at all. Gravy if he does play some.

It'll be interesting to hear if the tone from dad and KM changes much in the next 24 hours, post-surgery and after discussions with the specialists.
I think super-competitive kids like this will always want to initially respond with "I'll be ok. I can still play..." But after some sober contemplation about the risks, things may change. Also, I can't see how this doesn't affect his/their whole practice routine too. (Who do you practice with and under what style??) And does that further complicate the risk of further injury?

But like some posters have mentioned, not a lot of sympathy flowing our away following Ryan Kelly's loss from the IC boards (or a number of really, really obnoxious taunting posts from "visiting" NC fans over on TDD), nor in the stands in Greensboro from the thousands of fervent, light-blue clad Lehigh fanatics Friday night...

In any event, it'll be very interesting to see how it plays out this week. But I honestly DO feel for the poor kid...
Speedy, safe recovery wishes!

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

Wow, that was just blatant. Reminded me of this foul by FSU on Singler a couple years ago. I really wish the refs could use video replay and eject players for stuff like this.

I don't know, I have seen Zeller put on so many "performances", it's tough for me to tell if that was a legit forearm or not. The kid is smart, he has made an art out of taking advantage of the refs being predictable. He gets in an advantageous position and forces them to make a call that can pretty much only go his way. Have you seen his "croc roll"? If a defender gets an arm out of position up by Zeller's neck or wedged under his arm, he will start spinning in circles, like a crocodile, the other player's arm will get tangled in Zeller and it looks like the defender is fouling, but Zeller is initiating all of it.

There is this onehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWuK2-8sXGo

That forearm looks like it has intent, but it's like the boy who cried wolf. I can't tell if it is legit or not, because of his past behavior.

[Matches]

I'm sure they'll make an informed decision, after consultation with the docs, and with Marshall's long-term health as the first priority.

Guys have played with broken bones before. IIRC Kevin McHale played a big part of one season with a broken bone in his foot. It did cause him long-term problems - on the other hand, he was a professional rather than a 19-20 year old kid.

As a parent I would be terrified. Even with a cast on, even taking every precaution imaginable, what if he falls on his hand?

[CDu]

I'm sure they'll make an informed decision, after consultation with the docs, and with Marshall's long-term health as the first priority.

Guys have played with broken bones before. IIRC Kevin McHale played a big part of one season with a broken bone in his foot. It did cause him long-term problems - on the other hand, he was a professional rather than a 19-20 year old kid.

As a parent I would be terrified. Even with a cast on, even taking every precaution imaginable, what if he falls on his hand?

There's a difference between a big guy who is already slow and not an athlete playing with a broken foot and a PG playing with a broken hand. Ballhandling is so much more a part of his role, and if he's wearing any sort of cast on his right hand I just don't see how he can play effectively for them (especially now that the other team knows they can focus on that injury). And that doesn't even begin to discuss the pain aspect or any risk of further injury.

That said, I'm sure that both UNC and the Marshalls will make an informed decision that's in the best interest of Kendall Marshall first and foremost. And the only quote I'd take as worth a grain of salt at this point is Roy Williams's statement that "Kendall Marshall has a broken bone and we don't know anything more at this time." I'm sure that Marshall and his dad were just talking optimistically at the time and really hadn't had time to discuss things with the doctors yet. I'm also pretty confident that neither has the medical experience to make such a statement. My inclination is that he won't play again this season, but we'll see what happens as the days progress.

If Marshall can't go, I'd take UNC over Ohio (but wouldn't be shocked by an upset there) but I'd take either State or KU over UNC in the Elite 8. I certainly wouldn't be picking UNC to win the championship as I don't think UNC has the chops to win it all without a healthy and effective Marshall. Basically, there are three guys that UNC couldn't afford to lose to injury and still hope to win it: Marshall, Zeller, and Henson. Anybody else could be replaced to a degree such that they'd still be elite (even Harrison Barnes). But losing any of those three makes them very very mortal.

[ChicagoHeel]

If Marshall can't go, I'd take UNC over Ohio (but wouldn't be shocked by an upset there) but I'd take either State or KU over UNC in the Elite 8. I certainly wouldn't be picking UNC to win the championship as I don't think UNC has the chops to win it all without a healthy and effective Marshall. Basically, there are three guys that UNC couldn't afford to lose to injury and still hope to win it: Marshall, Zeller, and Henson. Anybody else could be replaced to a degree such that they'd still be elite (even Harrison Barnes). But losing any of those three makes them very very mortal.

That's my take as well. Without Marshall we're like a Ferrari without the engine. We still look good on the outside, but there's nothing to make us run. If we replace KM with White, we lose a lot offensively and will get destroyed on defense by opposing guards. I'm expecting we will go with a lot of Watts, because he is a capable ball handler and solid defender. We will also probably do a lot of PG by committee. Our only hope is to (1) really step it up on the defensive end and (2) Barnes. Zeller and Henson can only do so much without a good PG to feed them and only Barnes can create his own shot. He'll have to do that with extreme efficiency from here on out. It's hard for me to imagine us making a FF and I'd be stunned if we went beyond that.

I feel terrible for Marshall.

[ChicagoHeel]

True, which is likely why the Creighton player was called for a Flagrant I.

I also believe another Creighton player got a T for yapping at one of the Tarheels.

No, there were no flagrant fouls called on the double forearm shot to Zeller's throat, or at any other point in the game. I really wish they had called, or at least warned, Creighton for the tomahawk arm chop fouls that they were committing as I thought they were crossing the line from hard to flagrant. To my knowledge none were issued. Even on the foul against Marshall, which I think the replay shows pretty clearly was not intended to injure, there was barely, and I mean barely, a play made on the ball; it was mostly just a forearm to the upper body to keep KM out of the lane. The refs let them play in this one.

Nor was a Creighton player given a technical. Henson was given a technical for getting in the face of a Creighton player after he overreacted to some slaps that hit his injured wrist.

[wavedukefan70s]

Wow, that was just blatant. Reminded me of this foul by FSU on Singler a couple years ago. I really wish the refs could use video replay and eject players for stuff like this.

Out of all the rule changes they make. this could be a rule i could go for if they would try it.

[mr. synellinden]

From what I have read about this type of injury, much seems to depend on EXACTLY what kind of damage the individual received... full fracture, partial fracture... ligament damage... was the bone displaced etc.
A screw for CERTAIN damage seems the appropriate course of action and in some cases is the permanent fix.
I don't know if anyone outside of his doctors and immediate family know exactly the damage he sustained.
"MAYBE" a very small incision and screw will fix him up but right now I think anyone would be guessing.

From what I have read the cast route takes anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months to heal.
I'm guessing that the biggest concern at this time would be preventing any nerve damage which is a concern in this type injury.... or so I have read.

I had the same fracture to my dominant hand (i.e., right wrist) but it was non-displaced - meaning no surgery. Based on my experience, which includes the pain and the time needed for bones to heal (in other words, re-set) I cannot imagine Marshall being able to play before the Final Four. And even that would be a stretch. Even catching a hard pass would hurt, and any contact would risk further serious damage. With a displaced fracture, 4 weeks is usually an absolute minimum healing time. I think Marshall is done for the year, and I think he would be crazy to try to play.

[slower]

That's my take as well. Without Marshall we're like a Ferrari without the engine.

Or a foot without a big toe.

[superdave]

No, there were no flagrant fouls called on the double forearm shot to Zeller's throat, or at any other point in the game. I really wish they had called, or at least warned, Creighton for the tomahawk arm chop fouls that they were committing as I thought they were crossing the line from hard to flagrant. To my knowledge none were issued. Even on the foul against Marshall, which I think the replay shows pretty clearly was not intended to injure, there was barely, and I mean barely, a play made on the ball; it was mostly just a forearm to the upper body to keep KM out of the lane. The refs let them play in this one.

Nor was a Creighton player given a technical. Henson was given a technical for getting in the face of a Creighton player after he overreacted to some slaps that hit his injured wrist.

I spent 4 years hoping the refs would start calling charges and over the back calls on Hansborough. So perhaps the basketball gods are just evening things out.

Is the consensus that Stillman White would start Friday? Or that someone like Barnes would slide over?

[MulletMan]

Marshall's fracture is displaced, and the surgery that he is having is to insert a pin to set the bone. Here's the scary thing about them talking about him playing... the most common side effect from these types of breaks not healing properly is chronic arthritis of the wrist. You're talking about a kid going out less than a week after doing this and risking one of his possible careers (I'm not saying his career, because Marshall is a smart kid and will be fine after UNC and basketball). Think about all the precautions taken with Kyrie's toe last year. Apply them here.

I think that you would have trouble finding a doctor who would clear someone for this type of athletic activity after an injury like this.

We're going to find out a lot about Roy in the next week. A lot.

[UrinalCake]

Is the consensus that Stillman White would start Friday? Or that someone like Barnes would slide over?

We've heard of the four guard offense - it's time for UNC to break out the NO guard offense. They should play Bullock, Hairston, Barnes, Henson, and Zeller. Zone defense for sure. They're so long that all they have to do is just stand there with their hands up and Ohio won't be able to shoot over them. On offense I can see Bullock or Hairston lobbing the ball up in the air underhand style from half court and then letting the big guys swarm for the offensive boards.

Obviously this is a joke, but to a very small extent I could see them running this kind of offense - zoning it up on defense and then scoring exclusively in the post, knowing that they'll get a ton of offensive boards and that's actually probably the best way to get the ball to their big men.