Page 26 of 28 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 LastLast
Results 501 to 520 of 550
  1. #501
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Does anyone know anything about the sort of custom brace he has been fitted for?

    In a KM interview I saw somewhere I think it said the brace only allows for 20% range of motion. If that protection can confidently work, I would think the risk is not that great of more injury.

    That said, I don't think he plays either.

    If he does, the only sure thing will be Duke fans and their outcry of how irresponsible Roy is...

  2. #502
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    A big part of the reason we missed so many is that we weren't getting good shots. No flow to the offense. No penetrate and kicks. No offensive rebound and kicks. Just bad, contested 3's. The poor shooting percentage was a symptom of the problem not the cause of the problem.
    I think it was more a combination of missing open 3's and taking contested 3's. It's not like every three we took was contested and forced. Some were. But we also missed a good number of open looks as well.

  3. #503
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Does anyone know anything about the sort of custom brace he has been fitted for?

    In a KM interview I saw somewhere I think it said the brace only allows for 20% range of motion. If that protection can confidently work, I would think the risk is not that great of more injury.

    That said, I don't think he plays either.

    If he does, the only sure thing will be Duke fans and their outcry of how irresponsible Roy is...
    Have not seen a pic of the brace yet. The range of motion will have the biggest impact on dribbling in my view. Possibly catching passes as well, but he can likely shoot fairly well, and pass fine. Catching and dribbling, along with taking contact is where the issues would be. Not sure about pain. They could shoot it up to deal with that. Still, I would cringe just watching it, if a defender reached in and grabbed his wrist.

    I know he wants to play badly, as would any of us in his shoes, but I just don't think it realistic 6 days removed from surgery.


    On another note, having seen the replay of the foul about 15 times last night and today, I have changed my mind. The more I see it, the more it looks like the kid did NOT make a play on the ball and simply shoved Marshall to the ground with his right arm. I really would love to see a replay from the other side. I suppose it does not exist or we would have seen if by now.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    That said, I don't think he plays either.

    If he does, the only sure thing will be Duke fans and their outcry of how irresponsible Roy is...
    Well, true, based on every post by every physician [a total of 4 different physicians, by my count] in this thread, I do presume it's irresponsible. I've been told this, in addition, by a physician who has diagnosed this problem several times over the years. So I'm going by what appears to be expert opinion.

    Indeed, at least one of the medical experts posted earlier that it would be hard to imagine that the surgical team would say it's ok for him to play, period. Period. The physician-posters here have in fact defended the professional integrity of the surgical team [and why wouldn't they?], and some posters seem to know them.

    Fwiw, I doubt he plays v. Kansas. I'll guess he will play some in the FF, if Heels advance. And, absent a revision in the views of our physician-posters, in that case, I will myself think Roy is irresponsible.

    As I posted earlier in this thread with, I hope, some precision, Roy has a tough decision to make, given the NC stakes and Marshall's certain desire to help his team win out. It would be edifying - hypothetically, at least - if anyone who thinks otherwise would provide a defense of Roy's allowing Marshall to play that shows why it is the responsible thing to do.

    Given the other stakes, if you catch my drift.

  5. #505
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    If he does, the only sure thing will be Duke fans and their outcry of how irresponsible Roy is...
    My guess is the outcry would not be limited to Duke fans. There is just too much risk involved. Many people without particular loyalties to either shade of blue feel that way. Particularly those who understand the nuances of the injury.

  6. #506
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Not Irresponsible, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Does anyone know anything about the sort of custom brace he has been fitted for?

    In a KM interview I saw somewhere I think it said the brace only allows for 20% range of motion. If that protection can confidently work, I would think the risk is not that great of more injury.

    That said, I don't think he plays either.

    If he does, the only sure thing will be Duke fans and their outcry of how irresponsible Roy is...
    I think he does play, and I think Roy is right to play him. I just wish the lead up weren't such a soap opera with so much wailing and hand wringing. Now, will he be effective? Who knows? But that's the real question.

    sage

  7. #507
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Despite the medical diagnoses.not that i condone any of it.when henson came back from his wrist injury.teams went right after it.this would be a main concern if it was me.

  8. #508
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    For me, by far the most interesting thing about this development is the composition of the 5-person decision-committee. It's possible that the "committee" - the team trainer, for example - is still talking to the actual experts: the surgical team. I suppose it's also possible that the surgical team has signed off on Marshall's playing if he can tolerate the pain. But that scenario goes against every post by every physician who has posted in this thread, not to mention my [non-Duke, non-UNC, non-ACC, non-bball-fan] physician friend who continues to maintain that Roy is nuts and irresponsible if he allows Marshall to play, no matter what the other 4 "committee" members decide.

    Simply put, someone's wrong here: either it is or is not foolish and dangerous for Marshall to play. The issue is either the acute danger to this unusually delicate bone, or Marshall's playing-effectiveness and tolerance for pain.
    That's what jumped out at me, too. He has surgery to put a screw in a broken bone in his wrist, and his doctor is not on the committee to decide whether or not he should play. Bizarre.

  9. #509
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Have not seen a pic of the brace yet. The range of motion will have the biggest impact on dribbling in my view. Possibly catching passes as well, but he can likely shoot fairly well, and pass fine. Catching and dribbling, along with taking contact is where the issues would be.
    I would think that passing would be fairly difficult with that little range of motion on his off hand. As anyone who has watched Hoosiers knows, you gotta use a two-handed flick of the wrist!

  10. #510
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Have not seen a pic of the brace yet. The range of motion will have the biggest impact on dribbling in my view. Possibly catching passes as well, but he can likely shoot fairly well, and pass fine. Catching and dribbling, along with taking contact is where the issues would be. Not sure about pain. They could shoot it up to deal with that. Still, I would cringe just watching it, if a defender reached in and grabbed his wrist.

    I know he wants to play badly, as would any of us in his shoes, but I just don't think it realistic 6 days removed from surgery.


    On another note, having seen the replay of the foul about 15 times last night and today, I have changed my mind. The more I see it, the more it looks like the kid did NOT make a play on the ball and simply shoved Marshall to the ground with his right arm. I really would love to see a replay from the other side. I suppose it does not exist or we would have seen if by now.
    I didn't see the play as "dirty". It was a "message" foul that UNC sees all the time because they are regarded as a finesse team.

    The book on how to play UNC is "physical". Teams bang, scratch and claw, especially in the paint, because UNC players are skilled in the fundamental scoring moves. The pushing and shoving diminishes a skilled players advantage, makes a polished move more difficult as they are knocked off balance.

    Generally, if teams didn't foul so much because of the commitment to play "physical", there wouldn't be as many calls in UNC's "favor". Also, UNC rarely attempts to play physical from their defense. They prefer to use length and help defensive principles, so it seems like UNC is getting benefit of more calls when stat watchers see more opponent fouls, but don't watch the plays of the game.

    A recent example was when Henson/Zeller caught an entry pass and would spin to shoot, the Ohio post defenders gameplan was to not leave his feet, extend arms, and then belly into Henson and ride him away from the basket.

    It's a tough call for the official. What is too much body? When is a defender being "strong", or when is it a foul?
    The Ohio defenders did a nice job understanding what they could get away with and forced Henson to miss several good opportunities by pushing him away from the basket. Unfortunately for Ohio, Henson then turned to his face up game and made some key shots in that game.

    I'd bet KS is going to do the same thing with Zeller and Henson, put a body on them. Questions will be what will be too much for the refs, will KS players be smart on how much body to use, when? And will UNC make face up shots if their post moves are hampered?

  11. #511
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Despite the medical diagnoses.not that i condone any of it.when henson came back from his wrist injury.teams went right after it.this would be a main concern if it was me.
    Agreed. KS will take the extra reach in foul, you can bet on it. Especially if he is being effective.

    I think KM is very aware of his legacy at UNC and wants to play very much.

    He will be willing to accept the pain for a Willis Reed moment, if there is any way.

    I still don't see it happening, just too soon.

  12. #512
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Agree. It is very strange that so many non-UNC docs state it is a fragile/delicate bone, with only one blood vessel, and playing would be high risk, yet the word from the docs working on him is "no risk at all".
    Not to be overly argumentative, but, why do you think the UNC doc's word is "no risk at all"? I really doubt that could be true.

    Regarding the surgery and bone healing: the screw does stabilize the bone somewhat, but not completely, hence the splint. I haven't seen the "new" splint, but assume it's a moldable/semirigid plastic splint. I was surprised to see a basic off the shelf version in the pictures over the past few days. To protect, a splint would have to be rigid enough to prevent torque on the healed bone and therefore greatly limit the function and mobility of the wrist; there is no splint that can do this completely under all circumstances. I don't know for sure but would certainly guess that the splint, along with the pain from the fracture and subsequent sugery, would hugely limit KM's ability if he were to play.

    As far as the healing, we're talking at minimum 6 weeks before the bone is healed, no matter what type of brace is used or how many UNC fans write the # 5 on their wrist. That being said, there's really no day to day input needed from the orthopod. If a patient wanted to risk it, not much is going to change between the day of surgery and several weeks afterwards from the MD perspective. Whatever decision the committee of 5 come up with, I imagine the risks of playing were discussed in Chapel Hill a few days ago.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Agreed. KS will take the extra reach in foul, you can bet on it. Especially if he is being effective.

    I think KM is very aware of his legacy at UNC and wants to play very much.

    He will be willing to accept the pain for a Willis Reed moment, if there is any way.

    I still don't see it happening, just too soon.
    I agree. Too soon and too risky to let him play. If you have to immobilize it to let it heal why would you turn around and allow a mobile activity like basketball that you were doing when you hurt it in the first place?

  14. #514
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    So on an unrelated note, early in the UNC-Ohio game they showed Henson grimacing after throwing down a hard dunk. It appears that he's nowhere near 100% himself. Nobody's talking about it because of the Marshall injury, but Henson's playing through some pain. If they make it to the final four with this many injuries it'd be mighty impressive, regardless of how easy their path might have been.

  15. #515
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by tele View Post
    I agree. Too soon and too risky to let him play. If you have to immobilize it to let it heal why would you turn around and allow a mobile activity like basketball that you were doing when you hurt it in the first place?
    When watching KM clap on the sideline, one could tell is right wrist/hand is nowhere even close to 100%. It would be a huge mistake to play KM. The risks far outweigh the benefits. IMO playing an injured KM does not substantially improve the odds of winning today (and may hurt them if he can't play all out on defense) and not playing him does not guarantee a loss. One thing is for sure: If KM plays and reinjures his wrist, Ol' Roy's legacy as a coach will be forever linked to and tarnished by this decision. If he plays and Carolina loses, he will be criticized by many for caring more about winning than his player's health. If he does not play and Carolina losses, the injury will be to blame (and Ol' Roy gets credit for making the prudent decision). If Carolina beats Kansas without KM, Ol' Roy and his boys will deserve and receive a lot of credit.

    I don't see KM playing. Far, far too much risk.

  16. #516
    I think he plays, but it's just a guess.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I didn't see the play as "dirty". It was a "message" foul that UNC sees all the time because they are regarded as a finesse team.

    The book on how to play UNC is "physical". Teams bang, scratch and claw, especially in the paint, because UNC players are skilled in the fundamental scoring moves. The pushing and shoving diminishes a skilled players advantage, makes a polished move more difficult as they are knocked off balance.

    Generally, if teams didn't foul so much because of the commitment to play "physical", there wouldn't be as many calls in UNC's "favor". Also, UNC rarely attempts to play physical from their defense. They prefer to use length and help defensive principles, so it seems like UNC is getting benefit of more calls when stat watchers see more opponent fouls, but don't watch the plays of the game.

    A recent example was when Henson/Zeller caught an entry pass and would spin to shoot, the Ohio post defenders gameplan was to not leave his feet, extend arms, and then belly into Henson and ride him away from the basket.

    It's a tough call for the official. What is too much body? When is a defender being "strong", or when is it a foul?
    The Ohio defenders did a nice job understanding what they could get away with and forced Henson to miss several good opportunities by pushing him away from the basket. Unfortunately for Ohio, Henson then turned to his face up game and made some key shots in that game.

    I'd bet KS is going to do the same thing with Zeller and Henson, put a body on them. Questions will be what will be too much for the refs, will KS players be smart on how much body to use, when? And will UNC make face up shots if their post moves are hampered?
    I think that you have just described the way most teams play now a days. The OSU/Syracuse game was very physical, so I don't think that most teams have to do anything different when they play UNC. They may emphasize it more in the game plan, but the game has become a very physical game...

    Plus in the OHIO game, what option did the OHIO guys have? They were giving up several inches, so they couldn't very well play off their man.

    Also, I never saw Hansbrough as a finess/skill type of guy. He was as physical as they come, especially when he had the ball. In most cases he would initiate the contact and play through it to his great advantage. I think it depends on the talent as to how UNC plays. Zeller, Henson and Barnes are much more finessful and they play that way.
    Hanbrough was a bull and he played that way.

    I would be surprised to see KU actively try to whack KM's wrist if he plays. If they do, then they should be called for a flagarent II foul. I would expect to see them play him aggressively by overplaying his bad hand.

    As I have said too many times now, I think KM would be a liability if he plays. In fact, when Roy was asked on the TV yesterday, he mentioned that one of the things he (Roy) would have to assess would be could KM be effective, so he knows that KM must be able to show he can use both hands effectively so that he cannot be force to go with just his left hand... anyway we will know in about 8 hours or so.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    On another note, having seen the replay of the foul about 15 times last night and today, I have changed my mind. The more I see it, the more it looks like the kid did NOT make a play on the ball and simply shoved Marshall to the ground with his right arm. I really would love to see a replay from the other side. I suppose it does not exist or we would have seen if by now.
    I have also watched the play about a million times and my sense is that Wragge made a play on the ball, but just barely and as a bit of an afterthought. In still photos you can see his left arm extended for a block, but in video it looks like the arm goes up late and half-heartedly. My conclusion is that it was a legal, hard foul that was close to being over the line. My complaint is that there were some missed fouls early, and some excessively hard fouls for which no warnings were issued (as far as I know anyway). I cannot help but think that had the refs issued a warning, or caught the flagrant against Zeller earlier, Creighton might have fouled with a little more caution and the foul against Marshall might not have happened. Not one typically to complain about officiating, I was pretty irate because I had been texting my father throughout the game saying the refs should issue a warning before someone gets hurt- then it happened. Oh well, time to let bygones be bygones.

    http://www.tarheelblog.com/2012/03/w...-a-dirty-play/

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post

    If he does, the only sure thing will be Duke fans and their outcry of how irresponsible Roy is...
    That, and your knee-jerk defense of Roy.

  20. #520
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Based on how gingerly Marshall was clapping on the sideline, I see no way he can play today. While the brace will limit mobility (which would be a serious detriment to his ability to dribble, pass, and catch the ball), it won't do anything to help him defend himself on a fall. Basketball has become a contact sport, and contact leads to hits and falls. If he tries to brace himself on a fall with that hand, he's going to experience a ton of pain and possible reinjury. If he doesn't use that hand to brace himself on a fall, he risks injuring himself in other ways.

    I'm sure he could go out there and play with it right now. But he won't be able to do the things that make him effective. He couldn't drive to the basket, couldn't defend aggressively, would be limited on his passing, and his dribbling would be greatly challenged. In short, I don't think he'd be an upgrade over Stillman White.

    And that's not to say that White has been effective. I thought White did a very good job of simply not being the reason they lost. But that's not a good thing. UNC's offense relies on the PG to make things happen. Basically, White did everything he could to NOT make things happen for fear of making bad things happen. He essentially made himself a non-factor. His 6-to-0 assist-to-turnover ratio was merely a function of making simple, non-threathening passes and having shooters make shots. At least two were essentially handoffs to Zeller. Basically, he merely protected the ball and got out of the way otherwise.

    So any positive analysis of White overlooks the problems that he creates. This offense has very few players capable of creating their own shot, and even fewer guys capable of setting up others. That's where Marshall made such a difference. He could create shots for himself and others extremely well. White can't do that, and I don't think an injured Marshall can either.

    I suspect he'll make every effort to play. But I just don't see it happening.

Similar Threads

  1. Kendall Marshall injury - not serious
    By JasonEvans in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-06-2011, 06:12 PM
  2. Kendall Marshall NBA Chances
    By Kedsy in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 10-13-2011, 05:04 PM
  3. Kendall Marshall and J.J.
    By Lord Ash in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-25-2007, 04:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •