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  1. #281
    I'll add John Lucas to the list (not of jerks, but better than Marshall).

    Although, to be fair to Marshall, there aren't a LOT more guys that spring readily to mind than the ones we've already named.

  2. #282
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Has anyone seen this insanity?

    Attachment 2481
    I hate these guys as much as most around here, but this is awesome. Of course, it also reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTlyuZphf8
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  3. #283
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Hurley, Williams, Ford, Lawson, Felton, K Smith, K Anderson, M Price, J Lucas, Marbury, Paul, Corchiani. And that is without going into any level of effort.

    Marshall is absolutely terrific, but I would put him on the lines of a better Steve Blake (who was better defensively) or a better version of Cota. Another year with some scoring and he maybe bumps some guys off the list.

  4. #284

    Sand Bag

    Im telling you guys, its an old dean smith sandbag trick. Marshalls wrist is hurt but it aint hurt that bad as lil huck is making it out to be.

    I talked to a Doctor yesterday and he is a big unc fan to say the least, he said there is no way he should play with that injury to the wrist. He said everyone was talking about him not being as effective of a player but he said he would be more worried if he fell on it again.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by dukeballboy88 View Post
    Im telling you guys, its an old dean smith sandbag trick. Marshalls wrist is hurt but it aint hurt that bad as lil huck is making it out to be.

    I talked to a Doctor yesterday and he is a big unc fan to say the least, he said there is no way he should play with that injury to the wrist. He said everyone was talking about him not being as effective of a player but he said he would be more worried if he fell on it again.
    Well that would be more than sandbagging, it would be alright lying. They have said the wrist is broken and that is a definative diagnosis, unlike saying he "sprained it or "pulled a muscle" .. broke is broke..

    He even has had surgery to place a screw in it. I don't think Ol Roy is overselling the injury at all. He may be "overselling" the possibility that KM can play, but I don't think they are overselling the injury.

    But, you are correct in that UNC has a history of overselling injuries to sandbag the opponents.

    Again, the real issue isn't will he play. The issue is can he play and be an asset rather than a liability... I don't think he can.

    I will be shocked if he plays at all...

  6. #286
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Well that would be more than sandbagging, it would be alright lying. They have said the wrist is broken and that is a definative diagnosis, unlike saying he "sprained it or "pulled a muscle" .. broke is broke..

    He even has had surgery to place a screw in it. I don't think Ol Roy is overselling the injury at all. He may be "overselling" the possibility that KM can play, but I don't think they are overselling the injury.

    But, you are correct in that UNC has a history of overselling injuries to sandbag the opponents.

    Again, the real issue isn't will he play. The issue is can he play and be an asset rather than a liability... I don't think he can.

    I will be shocked if he plays at all...
    Completely agree. UNC isn't sandbagging/lying about the injury here. I would be shocked if he plays, and even more shocked if he could even be useful out there.

  7. #287
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    ...
    He even has had surgery to place a screw in it. I don't think Ol Roy is overselling the injury at all. He may be "overselling" the possibility that KM can play, but I don't think they are overselling the injury.
    ...
    Exactly right. You don't get surgery on an un-injured wrist, and this particular injury means that KM is not playing for the rest of the year. Ol Roy may be playing coy so a team has to prepare as though KM might play, but I can't imagine they'd risk his health like that. Note we held out that Kelly could possibly play, but once the season was over, suddenly he had a surgery that puts him out of commission for 6-8 weeks. I'm not sure how effective Ol Roy's strategy will be (it sure wasn't effective for us!) since the injury announcement was so specific, and I would imagine any team doctor (including Ohio's/NC State's/KU's) would advise that there's no way he's playing.

    -c

  8. #288
    I talked to a physical therapist yesterday who works with the UF football team. He said that in the past he's seen players get similar injuries during a game. A least one of those players had surgery soon after the injury and played the next week. Now he thought it was pretty crazy, but it does happen. According to him, once they put the screw in the bone the risk of reinjury is minimal; it's more a question of whether the player can deal with the pain. Of course, depending on the position, a football player might not need to use his wrist to the same extent as a basketball player. So who knows how effective Marshall would be if he did try to play.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph-Wiggum View Post
    I talked to a physical therapist yesterday who works with the UF football team. He said that in the past he's seen players get similar injuries during a game. A least one of those players had surgery soon after the injury and played the next week. Now he thought it was pretty crazy, but it does happen. According to him, once they put the screw in the bone the risk of reinjury is minimal; it's more a question of whether the player can deal with the pain. Of course, depending on the position, a football player might not need to use his wrist to the same extent as a basketball player. So who knows how effective Marshall would be if he did try to play.
    Bingo... depends on what they need to do. Some of the football players would use the cast as a club!!

    The re-injury issue has been secondary to me in the conversation... I think it would be a risk/benefit thing that I have no clue about, but I have maintained that he cannot be effective if he has one hand braced to the point where he could not move it, which sounds like the plan.

    Also, don't underestimate the pain involved... KM may have a very high treshold, and I would say based on how he popped up and continued playing he does have a high threshold so he may be able to get around it.

    On that topic, I have a lot of respect for KM... he got right up after that play, and just played on... no rolling around on the floor or grimicing... reminded me of Singler a bit... love to see the tuff kids.

    A pet peave (sp?) of mine is the drama queen approach to an injury... like when someone gets bumped or something and you think that they just lost a leg, then after the propper amount of attention is directed their way, they get up and act like nothing happened... drives me nuts!

  10. #290
    "A pet peave (sp?) of mine is the drama queen approach to an injury... like when someone gets bumped or something and you think that they just lost a leg, then after the propper amount of attention is directed their way, they get up and act like nothing happened... drives me nuts!"

    look under Latta in the dictionary.

  11. #291
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Kendall Marshall just tweeted "Cast off!"... for what that is worth

  12. #292
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tdrake51 View Post
    Kendall Marshall just tweeted "Cast off!"... for what that is worth
    That would be... odd. Why even have a cast on if it's only for 3 days? Unless he freaked out with the cast on and had them take it off (which is certainly possible - I was "this" close to going to the ER to have that done).

    In any case, I highly doubt that's anything meaningful with regard to progress. If it required a cast in the first place, it certainly wouldn't be very far healed in just a couple of days.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by cruxer View Post
    ... I can't imagine they'd risk his health like that... I would imagine any team doctor (including Ohio's/NC State's/KU's) would advise that there's no way he's playing.
    Let's use the joke in your second point to address the substance of your first point.

    "Any team doctor" - Can we imagine that the doctors whom UNC is consulting will say he can play? Are these team doctors consulting with others?

    I'd be interested in hearing again from the physicians who have posted in this thread. I tag-quoted [post #271] what appeared to me to be a solid consensus among rsvman, coldriver10, and dukedoc warning about long-term dangers. Coincidentally I spoke with a physician who said the same thing, in no uncertain words, "This kid shouldn't be allowed to play."

    But, wait. What to make of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph-Wiggum View Post
    I talked to a physical therapist yesterday who works with the UF football team. He said that in the past he's seen players get similar injuries during a game. A least one of those players had surgery soon after the injury and played the next week. Now he thought it was [1] pretty crazy, but it does happen. According to him, once they put the screw in the bone the [2] risk of reinjury is minimal; it's more a question of whether the player can deal with the pain.
    Point [1] seems to reinforce the consensus re foolishness, irresponsibility, even, of allowing Marshall to play, while acknowledging that crazy, foolish, irresponsible stuff occasionally happens, sports fanaticism being what it is, fanatical. The pressures to play, ok, to try to play, are enormous, emotional, fanatical, from all sorts of sources. But point [2] seems to say that some physicians do not agree that the odds of career-and-life-altering re-injury are high, so, yeah, if Marshall wants to give it a go and stand some pain, what the hell, it's the kid's life.

    It's one thing to say, the only real issue now is whether Marshall can stand the pain, and thus play and help his team. It's an altogether different thing to say, it doesn't make any difference whether he "could" play, maybe tolerate the pain, maybe help his team, because this is too dangerous, crazy, foolish, irresponsible. According to this view, supported, I still assume, by rsvman, coldriver10, and dukedoc, Roy and Marshall should be advised - in the strongest medical/professional terms possible - against his further play this season.

    I will guess that if Roy, Marshall, and his family are told by any physician(s) that he can play without much danger, even if Roy, Marshall and his family are told by a vast majority of physicians being consulted that he must not be allowed to play .... he will try to play in the Elite Eight game, assuming UNC beats Ohio.

    And I myself would (1) understand such a decision to play in such conflicting-advice-circumstances, even if the advice were overwhelmingly against, (2) hope Kendall Marshall does not re-injure this bone, and (3) prefer that UNC not reach the Final Four, as (4) I have Kendall Marshall's long-term health uppermost in mind.

  14. #294
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by grossbus View Post
    "A pet peave (sp?) of mine is the drama queen approach to an injury... like when someone gets bumped or something and you think that they just lost a leg, then after the propper amount of attention is directed their way, they get up and act like nothing happened... drives me nuts!"

    look under Latta in the dictionary.
    Or "professional soccer player."
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  15. #295
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by tdrake51 View Post
    Kendall Marshall just tweeted "Cast off!"... for what that is worth
    Maybe he has a fishing trip planned this weekend.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by #1Duke View Post
    White has seen very limited minutes and I myself would not base his "worth" on those limited minutes.
    Then on what would you base his worth? He was not highly regarded out of high school. The only reason UNC took him was because they had no backup for Marshall. If not for the injury, he would never be given major minutes for a contender for the national championship. All we have are his limited minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Duke View Post
    He is known for being able to hang onto the ball and commit limited turnovers and I have said several times that turnovers will be key in judging his performance. Along with the stats you listed you forgot to mention he had 2 turnovers in 70 minutes of play.
    Now, you're being inconsistent. If we can't rely on his performance in limited minutes, we can't rely on those minutes to say he is "known" for fewer turnovers. If his role is drastically increased, under the highest of pressure, it's a good bet his turnovers will increase as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Duke View Post
    Sometimes great players or those that are perceived to be great and very talented fold in the heat of competition and underperform....sometimes those considered "chopped liver" rise to the occasion and perform above expectations.
    We'll see where Mr. White shakes out very soon.
    You are absolutely right about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Duke View Post
    So, I don't know what bothers fans more. Great/talented players underperforming or untalented uncelebrated players doing just what is expected of them?? What do you think?
    I think the former, except perhaps the most myopic, lost-all-perspective type of fans.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    I think that the biggest boost to Marshall's numbers are not his skill set, but the skill set of the guys he passes to. His assist numbers are better because his guys are both in the right position to score and can finish.
    I completely disagree with this. Marshall would get his assists no matter who he played with. His court vision and passing ability are that good. If he comes back next year, and Zeller, Henson, and Barnes are gone, you'll see. He'll still rack up the assists.

    The reason he's not an all-time top 10 PG is he's fairly one dimensional. He doesn't have an amazing quick first step to blow by his defender. He's not a good shooter. He's a barely adequate defender. He's not a good rebounder, despite good size for his position. He does one thing, really, really well. The players you name did a lot of things really, really well.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Bingo... depends on what they need to do. Some of the football players would use the cast as a club!!
    This brings up another question. What is "legal" to wear on the court during a game? I would think a full cast would be a danger to other players, no? Like, a stray arm breaking Tyshawn Taylor or Lorenzo Brown's nose?

    (Apologies if this has already been asked/answered here. It's a long thread.)

  19. #299
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    A pet peave (sp?) of mine is the drama queen approach to an injury... like when someone gets bumped or something and you think that they just lost a leg, then after the propper amount of attention is directed their way, they get up and act like nothing happened... drives me nuts!
    I agree with you for the most part, especially when such "drama queen" behavior is used to stop a play advantageously, or to otherwise influence a game in an illicit manner.

    However, it must be said that for a lot of bumps, hip-checks, and falls, the athlete himself simply does not know if he has sustained a significant injury or not. He is on the ground, the wind is knocked out of him, he is in pain, and that's all the info he has to go on. In that type of situation, I fully support the guy who would rather have his medical staffer clear him before he tries to move the hurt limb or risk further injury. Personally, I've seen people rashly do the opposite -- with unfortunate results.

  20. #300
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Let's use the joke in your second point to address the substance of your first point.

    "Any team doctor" - Can we imagine that the doctors whom UNC is consulting will say he can play? Are these team doctors consulting with others?
    .

    Now I'm not an ortho surgeon to be fair, but sometimes a bony injury can be more "playable" than a muscular injury, depending on it's nature. You can stabilize bone pretty well with pins, screws, etc, but a ligamentous injury or muscular injury doesn't allow much if any room for motion without bracing, as in a wrist or ankle injury.

    Just my 2 cents. Or my $180,000 if you consider the cost of med school...
    Duke '03
    Tent 1 '99/'00

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