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  1. #481
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Not me, but to tell you the truth I was a little surprised that UNC struggled as much as they did.
    I was far more surprised that Duke struggled so much without Kelly. OU (13 seed) is a better team than Lehigh (15 seed), and Marshall is much more important to his team than Kelly. Also, Duke had more time, better back-up players, and two games to prepare for playing without Kelly.

  2. #482
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Those were Clark Kellogg, who never misses an opportunity to put in a comment, and my main man, Verne Lundquist. I also thought UNC would roll to an easy win. I expected lots of "mojo," as Roy said, and that Barnes or Bullock or somebody would be a real playmaker and get the ball to three first-round draft picks. Boy, I was wrong!

    Weird stat: UNC is forced to go with an unheralded, little-used freshman as a point guard. The team plays very sloppily and records 24 turnovers. The untested rookie, however, has ZERO. What the heck is that about?

    Idle thought: Will Barnes fall out of the first round of the NBA draft? I mean, he's a great shooter, but has few other chops as an NBA SF or SG.

    Idle thought #2: If Kansas can control Zeller, Henson and McAdoo, as it controlled Howell, UNC is gonna have a really tough afternoon.

    sage
    No, it wasn't Kellogg/Lundquist. They were in Atlanta. I'm talking about the boneheads that were in St. Louis. They kept flashing to Kellogg since his son plays for Ohio. They did it so often it could've become a drinking game, similar to the random crowd shots of Doc Rivers and the Currys at Duke games.

  3. #483
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    My Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by ArkieDukie View Post
    No, it wasn't Kellogg/Lundquist. They were in Atlanta. I'm talking about the boneheads that were in St. Louis. They kept flashing to Kellogg since his son plays for Ohio. They did it so often it could've become a drinking game, similar to the random crowd shots of Doc Rivers and the Currys at Duke games.
    You know, I got confused 'cuz they were showing Kellogg watching his son play for Ohio. -- sage

  4. #484
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    I was far more surprised that Duke struggled so much without Kelly. OU (13 seed) is a better team than Lehigh (15 seed), and Marshall is much more important to his team than Kelly. Also, Duke had more time, better back-up players, and two games to prepare for playing without Kelly.
    Sadly I wasn't really "surprised". I was disappointed to say the least, but not really surprised because I had seen us play REALLY bad several times already this year even when we had Kelly.

  5. #485
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Sadly I wasn't really "surprised". I was disappointed to say the least, but not really surprised because I had seen us play REALLY bad several times already this year even when we had Kelly.
    It's hard to believe that anyone was not surprised by the loss to a 15 seed. I think this was the most shocking and disappointing loss in Coach K's career at Duke. Others have characterized it as an "historic" loss. Remember, Duke was in contention for a #1 seed just a few weeks ago. Team beat MSU, UNC, FSU, KU & U of M earlier. The 2 seed may have been a bit high without Kelly, but Syracuse is winning without Melo, and UNC won (barely) without its real MVP. A loss to # 15 Lehigh? Incomprehensible ten days ago ... even without Kelly.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    Others have characterized it as an "historic" loss.
    Others like to poke the bear.

    OK, so we rise, like the phoenix. "They" love to tear down, just to await the resurgence.

  7. #487
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Galveston, TX

    Dragging the thread back on topic...

    Kendall Marshall participated in practice today. Link: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...not-ready-play

    From the article:
    Marshall said a five-person committee of himself, his parents, the team trainer and coach Roy Williams will ultimately decide when he is ready to play.
    Interesting. Very interesting. I bet he plays.

  8. #488
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    It's hard to believe that anyone was not surprised by the loss to a 15 seed. I think this was the most shocking and disappointing loss in Coach K's career at Duke. Others have characterized it as an "historic" loss. Remember, Duke was in contention for a #1 seed just a few weeks ago. Team beat MSU, UNC, FSU, KU & U of M earlier. The 2 seed may have been a bit high without Kelly, but Syracuse is winning without Melo, and UNC won (barely) without its real MVP. A loss to # 15 Lehigh? Incomprehensible ten days ago ... even without Kelly.
    Why?

    We should have won the game, but it was not a "surprise" to see us play poorly and lose to an inferior team. Now if we had been playing at a consistently high level all year and lost, then sure I would have been "surprised". Did you catch any of the first half of the Miami game at Cameron? This was not like it was the first bad game we played this year. Heck, we barely beat Belmont in Cameron earlier in the year, and we had stretches (whole halfs) in MANY games were we basically just stunk, so why would I be surprised to see us get beat?

    What others are doing or where we were seeded has little to zero bearing on the fact that we had demonstrated on mulitple occassions this year to be a really bad team as well as to be a really good team...

    We were ranked #3 in the country I believe one week, did you really believe that too?

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by ArkieDukie View Post
    Kendall Marshall participated in practice today. Link: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...not-ready-play

    From the article:

    Interesting. Very interesting. I bet he plays.
    Roy dissembles in a quote from the linked article

    "Today's the first day he's bounced a ball," Williams said. "It's the first day he's caught a ball. It's the first day that he's shot a ball. We kept him out of all the live stuff. Now we want to see if it bothers him or if it pains him or if it swells up or if his toes curl or whatever happens next. And then tomorrow at shootaround, we'll try to probably do the same thing.

    "And then there's two things that have to happen: One, he has to feel comfortable that he's not hurting. And then two, I have to decide, can he be effective in the game with his situation?"


    My guess is Kendall Marshall gives it a try

  10. #490
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    He may give it a go, but again, I just don't see how he can be effective. If he is, then he should be voted on the "Iron Mike Ditka" team...

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    It's hard to believe that anyone was not surprised by the loss to a 15 seed. I think this was the most shocking and disappointing loss in Coach K's career at Duke. Others have characterized it as an "historic" loss. Remember, Duke was in contention for a #1 seed just a few weeks ago. Team beat MSU, UNC, FSU, KU & U of M earlier. The 2 seed may have been a bit high without Kelly, but Syracuse is winning without Melo, and UNC won (barely) without its real MVP. A loss to # 15 Lehigh? Incomprehensible ten days ago ... even without Kelly.
    Not that this really has anything to do with Kendall Marshall's wrist, but believe it or not, but I was not surprised at all. We were weak defensively all year and the team was not playing well for the last several weeks of the season. On our best nights we were grinding out ugly wins against mediocre/weak opponents (like VT or Wake). The win at FSU was a bright spot, but otherwise we didn't have much going for us down the home stretch. Quite honestly, with the way we had been playing recently, I would have been more surprised by a Sweet Sixteen win than an opening round loss.

    Anyway, I don't see how KM could be effective against a well-coached team. If he steps on the court, I have to think that Self would have told his players to force him to his right at every opportunity.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by ArkieDukie View Post
    Kendall Marshall participated in practice today. Link: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...not-ready-play

    From the article:

    Interesting. Very interesting. I bet he plays.
    He may try- but you would think he would try to play a practice game- to see if he could handle catching a rebounding the ball. We shall see. I still see UNC in the final game, regardless of who plays.
    dukelifer

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    It's hard to believe that anyone was not surprised by the loss to a 15 seed. I think this was the most shocking and disappointing loss in Coach K's career at Duke. Others have characterized it as an "historic" loss. Remember, Duke was in contention for a #1 seed just a few weeks ago. Team beat MSU, UNC, FSU, KU & U of M earlier. The 2 seed may have been a bit high without Kelly, but Syracuse is winning without Melo, and UNC won (barely) without its real MVP. A loss to # 15 Lehigh? Incomprehensible ten days ago ... even without Kelly.
    The only reason this would matter as a "historic loss" if this signified the end of Duke basketball as we know it. I do not think Duke has reached that point. If anything- this "historic loss" will serve to motivate. This loss was bad - no question- but it is now time for the team to regroup and get better.
    dukelifer

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by ArkieDukie View Post
    Interesting. Very interesting. I bet he plays.
    For me, by far the most interesting thing about this development is the composition of the 5-person decision-committee. It's possible that the "committee" - the team trainer, for example - is still talking to the actual experts: the surgical team. I suppose it's also possible that the surgical team has signed off on Marshall's playing if he can tolerate the pain. But that scenario goes against every post by every physician who has posted in this thread, not to mention my [non-Duke, non-UNC, non-ACC, non-bball-fan] physician friend who continues to maintain that Roy is nuts and irresponsible if he allows Marshall to play, no matter what the other 4 "committee" members decide.

    Simply put, someone's wrong here: either it is or is not foolish and dangerous for Marshall to play. The issue is either the acute danger to this unusually delicate bone, or Marshall's playing-effectiveness and tolerance for pain.

  15. #495
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    For me, by far the most interesting thing about this development is the composition of the 5-person decision-committee. It's possible that the "committee" - the team trainer, for example - is still talking to the actual experts: the surgical team. I suppose it's also possible that the surgical team has signed off on Marshall's playing if he can tolerate the pain. But that scenario goes against every post by every physician who has posted in this thread, not to mention my [non-Duke, non-UNC, non-ACC, non-bball-fan] physician friend who continues to maintain that Roy is nuts and irresponsible if he allows Marshall to play, no matter what the other 4 "committee" members decide.

    Simply put, someone's wrong here: either it is or is not foolish and dangerous for Marshall to play. The issue is either the acute danger to this unusually delicate bone, or Marshall's playing-effectiveness and tolerance for pain.
    I was thinking the exact same thing re: the "committee". How is the, you know, BONE doctor not involved?

    My only guess is that it's because the status of bone truly isn't changing day by day. It is probably slowly healing, but in the context of a typical course of several weeks, the bone will not meaningfully change from today or tomorrow. Thus, the orthopedist has made his/her assessment for this weekend and it won't change tomorrow. Perhaps the orthopedist has laid out the risks and benefits and is deferring to the "committee" based on that knowledge. If he doesn't play, and UNC continues to the Final Four, the Orthopedist will then reassess.

    Or, this could all be wrong.

  16. #496
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    For me, by far the most interesting thing about this development is the composition of the 5-person decision-committee. It's possible that the "committee" - the team trainer, for example - is still talking to the actual experts: the surgical team. I suppose it's also possible that the surgical team has signed off on Marshall's playing if he can tolerate the pain. But that scenario goes against every post by every physician who has posted in this thread, not to mention my [non-Duke, non-UNC, non-ACC, non-bball-fan] physician friend who continues to maintain that Roy is nuts and irresponsible if he allows Marshall to play, no matter what the other 4 "committee" members decide.

    Simply put, someone's wrong here: either it is or is not foolish and dangerous for Marshall to play. The issue is either the acute danger to this unusually delicate bone, or Marshall's playing-effectiveness and tolerance for pain.
    Agree. It is very strange that so many non-UNC docs state it is a fragile/delicate bone, with only one blood vessel, and playing would be high risk, yet the word from the docs working on him is "no risk at all". Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

    I don't think he plays. Like Old Navy said, even if he tries to play, the chances of him being effective are small.

    The Carolina Way:
    169 student-athletes had at least 1 semester where the grade in their paper class either pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0. At least 1 semester each of those students had recalculated GPA (excluding the paper class grade(s))below a 2.0. This includes 123 FB players, 15 Men's BB players. 81 students earned degrees from Chapel Hill whose recalculated final GPA excluding the grade(s) from their paper class or classes was less than the 2.0 required to graduate.

  17. #497
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I don't think he plays. Like Old Navy said, even if he tries to play, the chances of him being effective are small.
    I agree with you that he will not play. Perhaps I'm naive, but I do not believe Coach Williams would risk aggravating the injury and potentially introducing long term consequences.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    It's hard to believe that anyone was not surprised by the loss to a 15 seed. I think this was the most shocking and disappointing loss in Coach K's career at Duke. Others have characterized it as an "historic" loss. Remember, Duke was in contention for a #1 seed just a few weeks ago. Team beat MSU, UNC, FSU, KU & U of M earlier. The 2 seed may have been a bit high without Kelly, but Syracuse is winning without Melo, and UNC won (barely) without its real MVP. A loss to # 15 Lehigh? Incomprehensible ten days ago ... even without Kelly.

    Is it an oversimplification to state the loss was primarily the result of Duke shooting 6 of 23 (.231) on 3s?

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by WiJoe View Post
    Is it an oversimplification to state the loss was primarily the result of Duke shooting 6 of 23 (.231) on 3s?
    Not at all, in my opinion. We were a team that relied heavily on the 3pt shot. We missed an inordinate amount of those 3pt shots. If we hit 3 more, we probably win.

  20. #500
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Not at all, in my opinion. We were a team that relied heavily on the 3pt shot. We missed an inordinate amount of those 3pt shots. If we hit 3 more, we probably win.
    A big part of the reason we missed so many is that we weren't getting good shots. No flow to the offense. No penetrate and kicks. No offensive rebound and kicks. Just bad, contested 3's. The poor shooting percentage was a symptom of the problem not the cause of the problem.

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