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  1. #1
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    NBA Early Entries: non-Duke

    Zags has freshman Mo Harkless of St. John's ready to go. I don't like kids going after one year, but that's the rule, and he sure looked the part against us in January. Kid was super.

    http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/03/18/s...ba/#more-69862

  2. #2
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    Sorry no link but I saw on espn the other day that Malik Wayns from Villanova declared. Really? Seriously?

  3. #3

    Underclassmen declaring for the NBA Draft

    Start the stampede -- Moe Harkless of St. John's just announced that he was putting his name into the draft:

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/story/_/...arly-nba-draft

    The 6-8 freshman averaged 15.5 points and 8.6 rebounds for th Red Storm. He hd 30 points and 13 rebounds against Duke on Jan. 28 -- the game that got Coach K so upset.

    I THINK he's the first underclassman to declare ... but you know there will be others. I thought I'd start this thread to keep up with the parade -- although I think it would be a good idea to use a diffrent thread to keep up with discussion of possible Duke defections. Use this one for everybody else.

    FWIW, there is a note in the ESPN rumors section (can't link, it's member's only) in which Chad Ford -- ESPN's draft expert -- projects five UNC players as potential lottery picks. Actually his top 100 only has four: No. 5 Harrison Barnes, No. 7 James Michael McAdoo (how about that!), No. 11 Tyler Zeller and No. 14 John Henson (is 14 still lottery?). He also has Kendall Marshall at No. 24, but says his NCAA performance has moved him up -- how much his injury sets him back, I don't claim to kniow.

    One final note: the NCAA has moved up its date for declaring and withdrawing. All decisions are final as of the first day of the spring signing period -- this year that/s April 11. So se ought to have a lot of action in the next three week.

  4. #4
    Dev11's Avatar
    Dev11 is offline Commissioner of Statistics, DBR Podcast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    No. 7 James Michael McAdoo (how about that!), ... No. 14 John Henson (is 14 still lottery?)
    I don't expect McAdoo to leave. It seems similar to Mason being a lottery pick after his first year, and McAdoo knows he'll get a ton of touches next year without Henson and Zeller around.

    And yep, 14 is still lottery. 16 playoff teams, 14 lottery. It is a *somewhat* arbitrary distinction, but generally read "lottery" as "top half of the first round."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev11 View Post
    I don't expect McAdoo to leave. It seems similar to Mason being a lottery pick after his first year, and McAdoo knows he'll get a ton of touches next year without Henson and Zeller around.

    And yep, 14 is still lottery. 16 playoff teams, 14 lottery. It is a *somewhat* arbitrary distinction, but generally read "lottery" as "top half of the first round."
    Brandon Wright left. Ed Davis left. I suspect if McAdoo were projected a little higher than he is right now, he'd yield to temptation. I also suspect his decision will depend on Marshall's decision to stay or declare. Why would you want to stay and have Marcus Paige as your point guard?

    Take the $ and run, McAdoo!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Brandon Wright left. Ed Davis left. I suspect if McAdoo were projected a little higher than he is right now, he'd yield to temptation. I also suspect his decision will depend on Marshall's decision to stay or declare. Why would you want to stay and have Marcus Paige as your point guard?

    Take the $ and run, McAdoo!
    Those guys were both starters who averaged double-figure points. McAdoo is a rotation player who has shown little of his potential.

    Frankly, it would shock me if McAdoo was a lottery pick right now. If he is, then Williams has historically recommended to his lottery picks to go pro (Barnes chose against it last year on his own).

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Those guys were both starters who averaged double-figure points. McAdoo is a rotation player who has shown little of his potential.

    Frankly, it would shock me if McAdoo was a lottery pick right now. If he is, then Williams has historically recommended to his lottery picks to go pro (Barnes chose against it last year on his own).
    True. But McAdoo is currently projected as a top 10 pick. He's #7 on Chad Ford's board and if he's truly that highly regarded, he's crazy to stay. At least that's my opinion. If he was not playing behind Henson and Zeller he'd probably have had a nice season.

    In 15.7 minutes, he averaged 5.8 and 3.9. He only shot 41% from the field. But his last few games with Henson out he put up 11 and 7.

    The issue is he's compared to the other forwards who are likely to go pro - Terrence Ross, Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Cody Zeller, Terrence Jones, etc. All have their issues. I would not dare to sort out which one of them I'd take with the 8th pick at this point if I needed a forward. I think you could watch a lot of film and measure a lot of things, and you would not find that much difference in these kids vs. McAdoo. It's more art than science.

    Super "Upside" Dave

  8. #8
    Dev11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    It's more art than science.

    Super "Upside" Dave
    But, but, but Jay Bilas has a mathematical formula involving complex calculations such as "freakishness" and "motor" that he uses to make his board! It must be science!

  9. #9
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    Iowa State's Royce White is going pro. He looked like a beast in the tournament. He's had some personal issues, that he appears to have moved past. But one kinda odd thing with him is the deathly fear of flying that he still suffers from. Wonder how that will factor in to his draft position.

    Also, Michigan's terrific freshman point guard Trey Burke is "exploring his options," sending paperwork around, that sort of thing. Losing him after only one year would be a real blow to the Wolverines. And to Mitch McGary . . .

  10. #10
    Was Ed Davis a starter?

    I don't think McAdoo is probably going to stay, I also don't really see Henson's appeal to NBA teams, but they all know more than I do. He's still kind of an offensive liability even though he's gotten exponentially better. It took years for Wright to start seeing the floor and being productive and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that he added on a lot of pounds, and I just don't see Henson being able to do that. Sure he's a shot blocker from the help side, but NBA power fowards should be able to power right through him. Especially with Marshall's injury, if that limits UNC's tournament (no Final Four) I could absolutely see Henson and even Barnes to a certain extent staying to complete some "unfinished business" as Lawson and Ellington did. I certainly hope that's not the case, but who knows. Again, I don't really see Henson's early/mid-first round appeal, he's a real project for the strength coaches in the NBA.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    Was Ed Davis a starter?

    I don't think McAdoo is probably going to stay, I also don't really see Henson's appeal to NBA teams, but they all know more than I do. He's still kind of an offensive liability even though he's gotten exponentially better. It took years for Wright to start seeing the floor and being productive and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that he added on a lot of pounds, and I just don't see Henson being able to do that. Sure he's a shot blocker from the help side, but NBA power fowards should be able to power right through him. Especially with Marshall's injury, if that limits UNC's tournament (no Final Four) I could absolutely see Henson and even Barnes to a certain extent staying to complete some "unfinished business" as Lawson and Ellington did. I certainly hope that's not the case, but who knows. Again, I don't really see Henson's early/mid-first round appeal, he's a real project for the strength coaches in the NBA.
    Ed Davis started 23/23 games his sophomore season. Then he broke something or another and missed the last few games.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Ed Davis started 23/23 games his sophomore season. Then he broke something or another and missed the last few games.
    Take a wild guess as to what he broke.

    Wrists : UNC :: Feet : Duke
    "I don't like them when they are eating my azaleas or rhododendrons or pansies." - Coach K

  13. #13
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    J'Covan Brown is leaving. Makes sense, as he is probably going to graduate in May, has a kid, and his draft stock is pretty level at mid-second round. He's a potential instant offense off the bench for an NBA team, but, at least initially, more likely playing in Europe a la a kid like Jacob Pullen, who he compares favorably too.

    Myck Kabongo, amazingly, is thinking about declaring. Even more amazingly, since this draft is bereft of point guards, he may actually be a first round pick. The kid has shown some talent, but struggled mightily as a freshman on defense and with his shooting. Worse players have gone pro. If Duke or UNC ever want to complain about kids leaving early, they just need to look over at Rick Barnes whose probably had the worst of it. Every single kid from the Toronto/Findlay Prep pipeline has been one and done if Kabongo leaves.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    J'Covan Brown is leaving. Makes sense, as he is probably going to graduate in May, has a kid, and his draft stock is pretty level at mid-second round. He's a potential instant offense off the bench for an NBA team, but, at least initially, more likely playing in Europe a la a kid like Jacob Pullen, who he compares favorably too.

    Myck Kabongo, amazingly, is thinking about declaring. Even more amazingly, since this draft is bereft of point guards, he may actually be a first round pick. The kid has shown some talent, but struggled mightily as a freshman on defense and with his shooting. Worse players have gone pro. If Duke or UNC ever want to complain about kids leaving early, they just need to look over at Rick Barnes whose probably had the worst of it. Every single kid from the Toronto/Findlay Prep pipeline has been one and done if Kabongo leaves.
    Saw a little of Myck this year. Not bad, but not ready to go.

    Now, if Trey Burke declares, that's a guy who could have an awesome couple of workouts and leap into the lottery. He was gooo-oood for Michigan the 2nd half of the season.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Saw a little of Myck this year. Not bad, but not ready to go.

    Now, if Trey Burke declares, that's a guy who could have an awesome couple of workouts and leap into the lottery. He was gooo-oood for Michigan the 2nd half of the season.
    Well, Burke was good until the last couple games of the year (both losses to tOSU and Ohio) in which he went a combined 6 for 26 from the field and 2 for 16 from 3. He's also right around 6'. Just hard to imagine him going lottery . . .

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Ed Davis started 23/23 games his sophomore season. Then he broke something or another and missed the last few games.
    I was thinking about the 08-09 championship season, my bad, I actually remember when he broke his wrist. I believe it was around half-time of the Duke-Carolina game in 2010 in Chapel Hill.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    True. But McAdoo is currently projected as a top 10 pick. He's #7 on Chad Ford's board and if he's truly that highly regarded, he's crazy to stay. At least that's my opinion. If he was not playing behind Henson and Zeller he'd probably have had a nice season.
    If he's truly #7 he should go. Ed Davis frankly made the wrong decision by returning for his sophomore season. He went from Top 5 to mid-teens, and it's not as if all the fun of playing for the 2010 Heels made up for it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    If he's truly #7 he should go. Ed Davis frankly made the wrong decision by returning for his sophomore season. He went from Top 5 to mid-teens, and it's not as if all the fun of playing for the 2010 Heels made up for it.
    Yup. The common thought from the UNC side is that Williams recommends that top-10 picks (i.e., guaranteed lottery guys) go pro rather than risk their stock by coming back for another season. Only Harrrison Barnes has eschewed that recommendation in recent memory. So if McAdoo is in fact a top-10 pick, I'd expect Williams to advise him to go pro. Whether McAdoo does or not remains to be seen. It still amazes me that McAdoo's stock could be that high, but I guess I'm not an NBA GM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yup. The common thought from the UNC side is that Williams recommends that top-10 picks (i.e., guaranteed lottery guys) go pro rather than risk their stock by coming back for another season. Only Harrrison Barnes has eschewed that recommendation in recent memory. So if McAdoo is in fact a top-10 pick, I'd expect Williams to advise him to go pro. Whether McAdoo does or not remains to be seen. It still amazes me that McAdoo's stock could be that high, but I guess I'm not an NBA GM.
    Simply put - the other comparable forwards likely in this year's draft, Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, are straight up knuckleheads. There's every reason to think that McAdoo is as good as those guys and he seems like a really good kid. Even if he does play in an ugly shade of blue and somehow wanted to play for a coach who is a knucklehead.

  20. #20
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    hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Simply put - the other comparable forwards likely in this year's draft, Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, are straight up knuckleheads. There's every reason to think that McAdoo is as good as those guys and he seems like a really good kid. Even if he does play in an ugly shade of blue and somehow wanted to play for a coach who is a knucklehead.
    Are you saying he'd leave to keep up with the Joneses?

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