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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville

    Looking Ahead To 2012-2013

    ...I'm curious as to what you guys would like to see, what you think should happen, and what you think will happen.

    I think a loss like this could be beneficial in certain ways. It's the kind of wake-up call that will force the staff to go back to the drawing board and reevaluate everything, which, IMO, is a good thing. My main hopes:

    1. I've been fairly vocal this season about how I thought we should have been grooming Austin Rivers to run the show as a Nolan Smith-style lead guard (my reasoning). Now, after seeing Austin post-game and considering his situation, I think it could be beneficial for all parties if he return, assuming the staff would start drilling him on the point guard position starting this Monday. Austin is projected as the #16 pick by the most reputable site, currently, and that was before his late-season slump. What position would a GM even be drafting him at right now?

    So basically, I hope Austin stays, K immediately names him a co-captain with Cook, and we hand him the reigns at the 1.

    2. The other thing I've been fairly vocal about is how I thought it was a mistake to just put our most skilled offensive players on the floor, rather than building from defense-out (my alternate proposal, my reasoning).

    Hopefully the staff will prioritize defense, rebounding, and getting to the rim higher than they did this year. I'm not sure if Gbinije will be the guy (or if he'll even be here), but I'm really hoping the positive progress reports for Murphy continue through the summer and he takes over the starting SF spot early on.

    If we have Murphy at the 3 and Rivers at the pseudo-1, with SRs Mason and Ryan in the frontcourt, I don't really even care who's at the 2. Maybe Seth or Dawkins if they get their heads on straight, maybe Thornton if he can really become a Bruce Bowen-like 3-point shooter over the summer. That gives us a very solid defensive perimeter, solid rebounding, solid shooting, and several players who can get to the rim. Those are the kind of fundamentals that good basketball teams are made of.

    3. I hope Mason stays, obviously. Not much reasoning needed here; we'll need him, badly, and I don't think his last few months have scouts salivating. If he returns, our frontcourt goes from a major, major question mark to easily one of the best, most experienced in the country.

    4. Lastly, I hope few guys have their come-to-Jesus moment. A big problem this year was chemistry and attitude, whether it's publicly acknowledged or not. All of these X's and O's issues don't mean much if we don't have a group of guys who are all in and absolutely committed to winning and improving as a team; I want next year's team to belong to Thornton and Rivers, and if anyone thinks they're too cool to give as much as those two do every time they're on the court, they're free to go elsewhere. Harsh, but necessary, IMO.

    Anyway, I'm actually very hopeful for the future, but I really this slap in the face jolts us into making some changes. What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.
    I predict a natty!
    1200. DDMF.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.
    Unfortunately we now have a lot of free time on our hands.

  5. #5

    Some Questions

    Is Seth Curry going to graduate this year? If so, does he come back to Duke next year, go to another school, or Europe.

    I agree that it is a little early to speculate on next year until we understand the roster, but we can speculate on that.

    I would guess that only Austin and Mason are the ones who might leave early for the draft.

    Next year we need a leader more than anything else.

    SoCal

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Is Seth Curry going to graduate this year?

    SoCal

    I had a class with Seth, and I asked him this very question. He said he was undecided, but the idea of graduating early had a certain appeal.

  7. #7
    Co-captain with Cook? Huh? Am I missing something.

    I mean I like Cook, he looks like a kid who has alot of fun. And I understand why many were clamoring for him to start before the season started. But I would have thought after what we saw of him this year people would be a bit more realistic I guess.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    Co-captain with Cook? Huh? Am I missing something.

    I mean I like Cook, he looks like a kid who has alot of fun. And I understand why many were clamoring for him to start before the season started. But I would have thought after what we saw of him this year people would be a bit more realistic I guess.
    DOH.

    Meant to type Thornton. Too late to edit.

    I completely agree with that assessment. I hope Cook spends all summer regaining his full and health and working on his lateral quickness, because he's been a pretty significant defensive liability, IMO.

    But anyway, yeah, I just kind of assume Thornton has already locked down a captain spot, for all practical purposes. He's been our best leader and competitor by such a large margin it's not even funny. I think it's safe to say he'll be the one running the informal practices this summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.
    You think it's impossible to speculate, even in the abstract, on any changes going forward?

    Feel free to scroll by this thread then, I guess...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC

    On the bright side

    Here are a few things that should help:

    1. Quinn Cook should be our point guard from day 1. I think this could be the biggest difference for us. Cook is an elite point guard and with a year under his belt should improve on both ends. He will get everyone the ball in the right place at the right time.

    2. Murphy should start on the wing from day 1. We all know how nice it is to have a matchup problem on the wing like Singler. Though I don't expect Murphy to be Singler he will definitely help on the offensive and defensive ends. The only worry I have is that Coach K puts him at the four if Mason leaves.

    3. Junior/ Senior jumps. Ryan Kelly and Hairston could be great players if they could just get their bodies a bit more refined. Kelly needs to gain at least 20 pounds if he's gonna play center. Hairston needs to slim down so he can guard on the premeter.

    3. Sulaimon as X factor. He's a top 10 player in the nation and an elite perimeter defender. I honestly see him taking over for Dawkins when it becomes clear how great Sulaimon is on defense.

    I see this lineup eventually:

    Cook
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Hairston
    Kelly
    Last edited by loldevilz; 03-17-2012 at 06:45 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Here are a few things that should help:

    1. Quinn Cook should be our point guard from day 1. I think this could be the biggest difference for us. Cook is an elite point guard and with a year under his belt should improve on both ends. He will get everyone the ball in the right place at the right time.

    2. Murphy should start on the wing from day 1. We all know how nice it is to have a matchup problem on the wing like Singler. Though I don't expect Murphy to be Singler he will definitely help on the offensive and defensive ends. The only worry I have is that Coach K puts him at the four if Mason leaves.

    3. Junior/ Senior jumps. Ryan Kelly and Hairston could be great players if they could just get their bodies a bit more refined. Kelly needs to gain at least 20 pounds if he's gonna play center. Hairston needs to slim down so he can guard on the premeter.

    3. Sulaimon as X factor. He's a top 10 player in the nation and an elite perimeter defender. I honestly see him taking over for Dawkins when it becomes clear how great Sulaimon is on defense.

    I see this lineup eventually:

    Cook
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Hairston
    Kelly

    Some questions in my mind: How good can Quinn and MP3 be? They might be really good, or maybe take a while to develop.

    If Quinn cannot take the lead pg role from Tyler, we are not going to reach our potential IMO. Yes Tyler brings strong leadership, but if he doesn't drastically improve his playmaking ability we are really limiting our offensive potential with him starting at point.

    If MP3 after a year of practicing with the team and getting stronger can step in and play well at the 5, that would be key for us.

    If so I see MP3 starting at the 5 and Ryan starting at the 4.

    Who will be in the rotation at small forward? Dre, Mike G or Alex? If Alex really has grown an inch or two and gotten stronger, then he may end up in the rotation as a 3/4 swingman, as Kyle was at some points in his career.

    Can Silent G work his way into the starting lineup? What really IS his potential?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
    Some questions in my mind: How good can Quinn and MP3 be? They might be really good, or maybe take a while to develop.

    If Quinn cannot take the lead pg role from Tyler, we are not going to reach our potential IMO. Yes Tyler brings strong leadership, but if he doesn't drastically improve his playmaking ability we are really limiting our offensive potential with him starting at point.

    If MP3 after a year of practicing with the team and getting stronger can step in and play well at the 5, that would be key for us.

    If so I see MP3 starting at the 5 and Ryan starting at the 4.

    Who will be in the rotation at small forward? Dre, Mike G or Alex? If Alex really has grown an inch or two and gotten stronger, then he may end up in the rotation as a 3/4 swingman, as Kyle was at some points in his career.

    Can Silent G work his way into the starting lineup? What really IS his potential?
    So I take it you think mason is gone?
    1200. DDMF.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    So I take it you think mason is gone?
    I hope not. My own view is that he should stay and make the most of his senior year both on the court and in the classroom and graduate with his classmates. College can be the best time of your life. Yes, there is a risk of injury. Life is full of risks. But you can never get that senior year back, even if you go to the NBA for several years and then come back and finish your degree or try to do it during the offseason.

    My gut feeling though tells me Mason is more likely to go than Austin. But I don't have anything concrete to base that on.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
    I hope not. My own view is that he should stay and make the most of his senior year both on the court and in the classroom and graduate with his classmates. College can be the best time of your life. Yes, there is a risk of injury. Life is full of risks. But you can never get that senior year back, even if you go to the NBA for several years and then come back and finish your degree or try to do it during the offseason.

    My gut feeling though tells me Mason is more likely to go than Austin. But I don't have anything concrete to base that on.


    Hopefully, Mason will want to stay for his senior year and play with Marshall. And I think Rivers wants to get a Championship, so he's more likely to stay, I think.

  14. #14
    At this point in time all I can say is I would like to see us acquire a VERY good BIG... no matter what else happens.

  15. #15

    Premature to speculate

    I agree with those who would wait and see about both the NBA departures, if any, and the gains through recruiting. The coaches must know where the main deficiencies in the current team lie and surely they will attempt to correct them.

    I do think it would be sheer folly to do the same thing with basically the same people and expect different results. Change is needed! We have three waiting in the wings plus one coming through recruiting. Possibly we will get one or even two more depending upon who leaves.

    Will those players be able to improve our defense against opposing guard penetration?
    Will they help us to box out penetration on rebounds?
    Will they allow us to push the balls on offense or to cut down on turnovers?
    Will they help us feed the post?
    Will they guard the small forwards more effectively?
    I am sure the coaches have a list much longer and evaluate kids as total players and have in mind a starting position for them.

    One aside, with Ales Murphy gaining both height and weight, will he be more of a 4/3 than a 3 as he was oringinally expected to be?

  16. #16
    If you looked at a collection of my post lately you'd think I didn't like Cook and thought Thornton was the best thing since sliced bread. The fact is that isn't the case, but I just don't understand some people. I mean for crying out loud, I'm hearing the same things now that I heard before last year. Cook will elite, Thornton is no good, Cook has to start...it's just frustrating for both of them. It's puts too much on Cook and slights Tyler way too much.

    It reminds me so much of Wojo and Avery. I think Cook and Thornton can complement each other quite nicely. I hope Tyler asserts himself more offensively next year and I hope Cook comes back a stronger defensive player next year. Personally I hope Tyler starts and Cooks comes off the bench...but depending on the situation, assuming they both improve, depending on the situation I have no problem with either finishing a game.

    As for Thornton, even last night it seems he is just always involved in a play. Take the mistake he made where he threw it away...he followed it, knocked it away, and threw it to an open Mason for a dunk. It was classic Tyler...except he really doesn't make mistakes all that often.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lincoln Ne
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    If you looked at a collection of my post lately you'd think I didn't like Cook and thought Thornton was the best thing since sliced bread. The fact is that isn't the case, but I just don't understand some people. I mean for crying out loud, I'm hearing the same things now that I heard before last year. Cook will elite, Thornton is no good, Cook has to start...it's just frustrating for both of them. It's puts too much on Cook and slights Tyler way too much.

    It reminds me so much of Wojo and Avery. I think Cook and Thornton can complement each other quite nicely. I hope Tyler asserts himself more offensively next year and I hope Cook comes back a stronger defensive player next year. Personally I hope Tyler starts and Cooks comes off the bench...but depending on the situation, assuming they both improve, depending on the situation I have no problem with either finishing a game.

    As for Thornton, even last night it seems he is just always involved in a play. Take the mistake he made where he threw it away...he followed it, knocked it away, and threw it to an open Mason for a dunk. It was classic Tyler...except he really doesn't make mistakes all that often.
    I like Thornton as much as the next guy, and he clearly makes the team better on the defensive side of the ball. That being said I don't think he brings that much to the table offensively besides spot up jump shots. A point guards primary responsibility is to make the game easier for his teammates. Cook does that offensively much better than Thornton does. Thornton is a very good player, but he is a bulldog we have heard everyone say that about him. I have yet to hear from teammates or K on how great he is at setting his team up or running the offense. That is not being disrespectful to Thornton. Cook on the other hand is the better facilitator, but he is not the better leader. It did appear throughout much of the year we lacked a clear identity or had a clear leader. I am sure all of you watched the Duke special on the back to back teams. Something they all mentioned is keeping each other accountable. It did not appear that this team did that. I do hope Mason and Rivers come back because I think this team has something special in it. There is an awful lot of talent with all those pieces to not make a run next year.

  18. #18

    Talking

    The following is completely unreasonable and extremey unlikely to happen on any level but if I'm Coach K here's what I do:

    1. Take the next available flight to Vegas to see Shabaaz in person, do WHATEVER has to be done to secure his commitment for next year...
    2. Then, fly back to Durham, tell MP2 and AR that "'Bazz is commited to a Championship next year, how commited are you?" and lock them up for 1 more year.
    3. Conduct exit interviews with the rest of the team, telling Cook and Kelly you are starting next year day 1 so prepare this off-season accordingly.
    4. Inform Thornton, Rasheed, and Murph that they are my primary complimentary players next year so be ready(i.e. Thornton improve passing and driving skills).
    5. Inform Curry, Dawkins, and Silent G if they want to be a part of something special next year they can, but they have to bust their tale mentally and physically everyday.


    The team responds in 2013, finishing the year 34-5, winning the ACC title and winning the NCAA title!

    The End.

    I know this is ridiculous but, hey, it's my dream.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBrowns View Post
    The following is completely unreasonable and extremey unlikely to happen on any level but if I'm Coach K here's what I do:

    1. Take the next available flight to Vegas to see Shabaaz in person, do WHATEVER has to be done to secure his commitment for next year...
    2. Then, fly back to Durham, tell MP2 and AR that "'Bazz is commited to a Championship next year, how commited are you?" and lock them up for 1 more year.
    3. Conduct exit interviews with the rest of the team, telling Cook and Kelly you are starting next year day 1 so prepare this off-season accordingly.
    4. Inform Thornton, Rasheed, and Murph that they are my primary complimentary players next year so be ready(i.e. Thornton improve passing and driving skills).
    5. Inform Curry, Dawkins, and Silent G if they want to be a part of something special next year they can, but they have to bust their tale mentally and physically everyday.


    The team responds in 2013, finishing the year 34-5, winning the ACC title and winning the NCAA title!

    The End.

    I know this is ridiculous but, hey, it's my dream.
    I love this type of reasoning. Get (insert hyped high school player's name here) and tell the rest of your guys that he is the key to them being a good team. Do you see any problem at all with this? Anything at all in light of what happened this past season? Anything?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New York
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    I love this type of reasoning. Get (insert hyped high school player's name here) and tell the rest of your guys that he is the key to them being a good team. Do you see any problem at all with this? Anything at all in light of what happened this past season? Anything?
    Wait. I was with you until the end. What is it that you think "happened" this season? You think the presence of Austin Rivers was somehow a problem? What happened was we won 26 games. That's a lot. Beat some excellent teams along the way, too, before Kelly got hurt. I don't think we would have won more or bigger minus Austin Rivers. What is your reasoning here?

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