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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville

    Looking Ahead To 2012-2013

    ...I'm curious as to what you guys would like to see, what you think should happen, and what you think will happen.

    I think a loss like this could be beneficial in certain ways. It's the kind of wake-up call that will force the staff to go back to the drawing board and reevaluate everything, which, IMO, is a good thing. My main hopes:

    1. I've been fairly vocal this season about how I thought we should have been grooming Austin Rivers to run the show as a Nolan Smith-style lead guard (my reasoning). Now, after seeing Austin post-game and considering his situation, I think it could be beneficial for all parties if he return, assuming the staff would start drilling him on the point guard position starting this Monday. Austin is projected as the #16 pick by the most reputable site, currently, and that was before his late-season slump. What position would a GM even be drafting him at right now?

    So basically, I hope Austin stays, K immediately names him a co-captain with Cook, and we hand him the reigns at the 1.

    2. The other thing I've been fairly vocal about is how I thought it was a mistake to just put our most skilled offensive players on the floor, rather than building from defense-out (my alternate proposal, my reasoning).

    Hopefully the staff will prioritize defense, rebounding, and getting to the rim higher than they did this year. I'm not sure if Gbinije will be the guy (or if he'll even be here), but I'm really hoping the positive progress reports for Murphy continue through the summer and he takes over the starting SF spot early on.

    If we have Murphy at the 3 and Rivers at the pseudo-1, with SRs Mason and Ryan in the frontcourt, I don't really even care who's at the 2. Maybe Seth or Dawkins if they get their heads on straight, maybe Thornton if he can really become a Bruce Bowen-like 3-point shooter over the summer. That gives us a very solid defensive perimeter, solid rebounding, solid shooting, and several players who can get to the rim. Those are the kind of fundamentals that good basketball teams are made of.

    3. I hope Mason stays, obviously. Not much reasoning needed here; we'll need him, badly, and I don't think his last few months have scouts salivating. If he returns, our frontcourt goes from a major, major question mark to easily one of the best, most experienced in the country.

    4. Lastly, I hope few guys have their come-to-Jesus moment. A big problem this year was chemistry and attitude, whether it's publicly acknowledged or not. All of these X's and O's issues don't mean much if we don't have a group of guys who are all in and absolutely committed to winning and improving as a team; I want next year's team to belong to Thornton and Rivers, and if anyone thinks they're too cool to give as much as those two do every time they're on the court, they're free to go elsewhere. Harsh, but necessary, IMO.

    Anyway, I'm actually very hopeful for the future, but I really this slap in the face jolts us into making some changes. What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.
    I predict a natty!
    usa

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.
    Unfortunately we now have a lot of free time on our hands.

  5. #5

    Some Questions

    Is Seth Curry going to graduate this year? If so, does he come back to Duke next year, go to another school, or Europe.

    I agree that it is a little early to speculate on next year until we understand the roster, but we can speculate on that.

    I would guess that only Austin and Mason are the ones who might leave early for the draft.

    Next year we need a leader more than anything else.

    SoCal

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Is Seth Curry going to graduate this year?

    SoCal

    I had a class with Seth, and I asked him this very question. He said he was undecided, but the idea of graduating early had a certain appeal.

  7. #7
    Co-captain with Cook? Huh? Am I missing something.

    I mean I like Cook, he looks like a kid who has alot of fun. And I understand why many were clamoring for him to start before the season started. But I would have thought after what we saw of him this year people would be a bit more realistic I guess.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC

    On the bright side

    Here are a few things that should help:

    1. Quinn Cook should be our point guard from day 1. I think this could be the biggest difference for us. Cook is an elite point guard and with a year under his belt should improve on both ends. He will get everyone the ball in the right place at the right time.

    2. Murphy should start on the wing from day 1. We all know how nice it is to have a matchup problem on the wing like Singler. Though I don't expect Murphy to be Singler he will definitely help on the offensive and defensive ends. The only worry I have is that Coach K puts him at the four if Mason leaves.

    3. Junior/ Senior jumps. Ryan Kelly and Hairston could be great players if they could just get their bodies a bit more refined. Kelly needs to gain at least 20 pounds if he's gonna play center. Hairston needs to slim down so he can guard on the premeter.

    3. Sulaimon as X factor. He's a top 10 player in the nation and an elite perimeter defender. I honestly see him taking over for Dawkins when it becomes clear how great Sulaimon is on defense.

    I see this lineup eventually:

    Cook
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Hairston
    Kelly
    Last edited by loldevilz; 03-17-2012 at 06:45 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    Co-captain with Cook? Huh? Am I missing something.

    I mean I like Cook, he looks like a kid who has alot of fun. And I understand why many were clamoring for him to start before the season started. But I would have thought after what we saw of him this year people would be a bit more realistic I guess.
    DOH.

    Meant to type Thornton. Too late to edit.

    I completely agree with that assessment. I hope Cook spends all summer regaining his full and health and working on his lateral quickness, because he's been a pretty significant defensive liability, IMO.

    But anyway, yeah, I just kind of assume Thornton has already locked down a captain spot, for all practical purposes. He's been our best leader and competitor by such a large margin it's not even funny. I think it's safe to say he'll be the one running the informal practices this summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I think the thread is a little premature. We have no idea what the makeup of the '12-'13 team will be so it difficult, if not impossible, to speculate - even in the abstract.
    You think it's impossible to speculate, even in the abstract, on any changes going forward?

    Feel free to scroll by this thread then, I guess...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Here are a few things that should help:

    1. Quinn Cook should be our point guard from day 1. I think this could be the biggest difference for us. Cook is an elite point guard and with a year under his belt should improve on both ends. He will get everyone the ball in the right place at the right time.

    2. Murphy should start on the wing from day 1. We all know how nice it is to have a matchup problem on the wing like Singler. Though I don't expect Murphy to be Singler he will definitely help on the offensive and defensive ends. The only worry I have is that Coach K puts him at the four if Mason leaves.

    3. Junior/ Senior jumps. Ryan Kelly and Hairston could be great players if they could just get their bodies a bit more refined. Kelly needs to gain at least 20 pounds if he's gonna play center. Hairston needs to slim down so he can guard on the premeter.

    3. Sulaimon as X factor. He's a top 10 player in the nation and an elite perimeter defender. I honestly see him taking over for Dawkins when it becomes clear how great Sulaimon is on defense.

    I see this lineup eventually:

    Cook
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Hairston
    Kelly

    Some questions in my mind: How good can Quinn and MP3 be? They might be really good, or maybe take a while to develop.

    If Quinn cannot take the lead pg role from Tyler, we are not going to reach our potential IMO. Yes Tyler brings strong leadership, but if he doesn't drastically improve his playmaking ability we are really limiting our offensive potential with him starting at point.

    If MP3 after a year of practicing with the team and getting stronger can step in and play well at the 5, that would be key for us.

    If so I see MP3 starting at the 5 and Ryan starting at the 4.

    Who will be in the rotation at small forward? Dre, Mike G or Alex? If Alex really has grown an inch or two and gotten stronger, then he may end up in the rotation as a 3/4 swingman, as Kyle was at some points in his career.

    Can Silent G work his way into the starting lineup? What really IS his potential?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
    Some questions in my mind: How good can Quinn and MP3 be? They might be really good, or maybe take a while to develop.

    If Quinn cannot take the lead pg role from Tyler, we are not going to reach our potential IMO. Yes Tyler brings strong leadership, but if he doesn't drastically improve his playmaking ability we are really limiting our offensive potential with him starting at point.

    If MP3 after a year of practicing with the team and getting stronger can step in and play well at the 5, that would be key for us.

    If so I see MP3 starting at the 5 and Ryan starting at the 4.

    Who will be in the rotation at small forward? Dre, Mike G or Alex? If Alex really has grown an inch or two and gotten stronger, then he may end up in the rotation as a 3/4 swingman, as Kyle was at some points in his career.

    Can Silent G work his way into the starting lineup? What really IS his potential?
    So I take it you think mason is gone?
    usa

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    So I take it you think mason is gone?
    I hope not. My own view is that he should stay and make the most of his senior year both on the court and in the classroom and graduate with his classmates. College can be the best time of your life. Yes, there is a risk of injury. Life is full of risks. But you can never get that senior year back, even if you go to the NBA for several years and then come back and finish your degree or try to do it during the offseason.

    My gut feeling though tells me Mason is more likely to go than Austin. But I don't have anything concrete to base that on.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Is Seth Curry going to graduate this year? If so, does he come back to Duke next year, go to another school, or Europe. ...

    Next year we need a leader more than anything else.

    SoCal
    We need 2/3 s that can: feed the post, stay in front of their man, rotate back on D, rotate down on D when a big rotates to help, put a body on an opponent when a shot goes up, and grab at least one rebound every game. And play with some friggin passion, like each possession matters.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Here are a few things that should help:

    1. Quinn Cook should be our point guard from day 1. I think this could be the biggest difference for us. Cook is an elite point guard and with a year under his belt should improve on both ends. He will get everyone the ball in the right place at the right time.

    2. Murphy should start on the wing from day 1. We all know how nice it is to have a matchup problem on the wing like Singler. Though I don't expect Murphy to be Singler he will definitely help on the offensive and defensive ends. The only worry I have is that Coach K puts him at the four if Mason leaves.

    3. Junior/ Senior jumps. Ryan Kelly and Hairston could be great players if they could just get their bodies a bit more refined. Kelly needs to gain at least 20 pounds if he's gonna play center. Hairston needs to slim down so he can guard on the premeter.

    3. Sulaimon as X factor. He's a top 10 player in the nation and an elite perimeter defender. I honestly see him taking over for Dawkins when it becomes clear how great Sulaimon is on defense.

    I see this lineup eventually:

    Cook
    Sulaimon
    Murphy
    Hairston
    Kelly
    So Cook is now an elite point guard? He didn't look anything like Irving as a freshman. I consider Irving to be an elite point guard. Cook didn't look like Duhon as a freshman either. I don't think Cook is an elite point guard.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxAMillion View Post
    So Cook is now an elite point guard? He didn't look anything like Irving as a freshman. I consider Irving to be an elite point guard. Cook didn't look like Duhon as a freshman either. I don't think Cook is an elite point guard.
    Fully agree. Don't you have to accomplish something on the court before you're called elite? Quinn put up gaudy numbers against some cupcakes in december, which indicates to me its there, he has the talent, but how is he going to apply that against the UNCs MSUs and OSUs of the world? I think he will end up our starting point guard next year, because i think he knows 100% its his defense keeping him on the bench, and he'll want to play....so will work his butt off all summer to get better.
    usa

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    ...I'm curious as to what you guys would like to see, what you think should happen, and what you think will happen.

    I think a loss like this could be beneficial in certain ways. It's the kind of wake-up call that will force the staff to go back to the drawing board and reevaluate everything, which, IMO, is a good thing. My main hopes:

    1. I've been fairly vocal this season about how I thought we should have been grooming Austin Rivers to run the show as a Nolan Smith-style lead guard (my reasoning). Now, after seeing Austin post-game and considering his situation, I think it could be beneficial for all parties if he return, assuming the staff would start drilling him on the point guard position starting this Monday. Austin is projected as the #16 pick by the most reputable site, currently, and that was before his late-season slump. What position would a GM even be drafting him at right now?

    So basically, I hope Austin stays, K immediately names him a co-captain with Cook, and we hand him the reigns at the 1.

    2. The other thing I've been fairly vocal about is how I thought it was a mistake to just put our most skilled offensive players on the floor, rather than building from defense-out (my alternate proposal, my reasoning).

    Hopefully the staff will prioritize defense, rebounding, and getting to the rim higher than they did this year. I'm not sure if Gbinije will be the guy (or if he'll even be here), but I'm really hoping the positive progress reports for Murphy continue through the summer and he takes over the starting SF spot early on.

    If we have Murphy at the 3 and Rivers at the pseudo-1, with SRs Mason and Ryan in the frontcourt, I don't really even care who's at the 2. Maybe Seth or Dawkins if they get their heads on straight, maybe Thornton if he can really become a Bruce Bowen-like 3-point shooter over the summer. That gives us a very solid defensive perimeter, solid rebounding, solid shooting, and several players who can get to the rim. Those are the kind of fundamentals that good basketball teams are made of.

    3. I hope Mason stays, obviously. Not much reasoning needed here; we'll need him, badly, and I don't think his last few months have scouts salivating. If he returns, our frontcourt goes from a major, major question mark to easily one of the best, most experienced in the country.

    4. Lastly, I hope few guys have their come-to-Jesus moment. A big problem this year was chemistry and attitude, whether it's publicly acknowledged or not. All of these X's and O's issues don't mean much if we don't have a group of guys who are all in and absolutely committed to winning and improving as a team; I want next year's team to belong to Thornton and Rivers, and if anyone thinks they're too cool to give as much as those two do every time they're on the court, they're free to go elsewhere. Harsh, but necessary, IMO.

    Anyway, I'm actually very hopeful for the future, but I really this slap in the face jolts us into making some changes. What do you guys think?
    I think how our offense will be run will be a very interesting dynamic to watch unfold next season.

    The high pick and roll offense (which has been a big part of K's offense the last few years) requires two things.

    It needs bigs who either are outside shooting threats or who have good hands and can roll and score off of cuts to the hoops or post with a smaller man on them and score effectively. RK can do that to some degree, but Mason (and Hairston) haven't shown that they can run that offense (the latter part of the season, Mase or Miles defenders would essentially double the guard and negate that offensive play. We didn't have the 3/4 (i.e. Kyle) who makes that set a great play to run. Mason is far more effective when he can post up within 6 feet from the hoop. He made great improvements in that part of his game this year...I expect even more so next year.

    And it needs guards who can dribble drive to the hoop and shoot from the outside. AR showed he can run this kind of offense...albeit with the growing pains that a shoot first guy has when he must also be a distributor. On the other hand, Seth and Andre are good set shooters (despite their late season woes)...but have not shown that they are consistent at all when it comes to driving against their defenders in isolations or on the pick and roll. Can their games expand by growing stronger physically and learning how to dribble drive and score going to the hoop?

    Also, I have mentioned during the season that all our players...especially the guards need to get physically stronger. I think that will be a huge factor in how much more effective the current players can be on offense (and defense).
    Windy City Devil

  17. #17
    I'll throw in my worthless 2 even though I think it's pretty obvious to most. On each National Championship team Duke has had, a great point guard has been the centerpiece. Hurley and Williams could create and score. Scheyer became a very good if not great point guard because of his ability to score, defend, and not turn the ball over. For Duke to make a deep run next year one critical component will be the ability to consistently start a point guard that can score the ball and set up his teammates. We'll see if someone emerges in this role with those qualities...but I believe it has to happen in order for us to win our games convincingly and seriously challenge the best teams late in the season.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxAMillion View Post
    So Cook is now an elite point guard? He didn't look anything like Irving as a freshman. I consider Irving to be an elite point guard. Cook didn't look like Duhon as a freshman either. I don't think Cook is an elite point guard.
    Yeah, both those guys are starting or have started as NBA point guards. He's obviously not that good. But he can and should be an elite college point guard. He had like a 3 to 1 To to Assist ratio as a freshman!!! That seems pretty elite to me.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Yeah, both those guys are starting or have started as NBA point guards. He's obviously not that good. But he can and should be an elite college point guard. He had like a 3 to 1 To to Assist ratio as a freshman!!! That seems pretty elite to me.
    He got >34% of his assists against Western Michigan, Penn, and Georgia tech. Lets let him put up some numbers against actual competition before we tout his gaudy numbers.
    usa

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cabbagetown, Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    He got >34% of his assists against Western Michigan, Penn, and Georgia tech. Lets let him put up some numbers against actual competition before we tout his gaudy numbers.
    I think Q is a very high level college PG, if not an elite college PG. Pretty much every time he gets in the game he does something really good. He can penetrate and break down defenses. He is a really good ball handler. He can pass. He has really good court vision. I wish I had a tape of all of the game minutes he played this year, so we could all sit and watch. Maybe then, with a steady stream of Q doing awesome stuff, there would be more believers.

    I understand he has played few minutes. That's another reason why I think he will be great, given the starting nod. He can come in cold, with the threat of a short leash, and still perform really well.

    We need Q to be our starting PG to have a chance at the Final Fur next year, in my opinion.

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