Mason Plumlee Returning to Duke for Senior Season

[jimsumner]

I'm sure I didn't see as many games as you guys, but I saw most of the conference games.

I like Mason. He can make some nice moves, and yes he has gotten better, but nowhere near where I think he should be.

Duke had plenty of guard skills to feed the post. What they lacked was the commitment to do so, plain and simple, and it cost this team an early exit.

Could not disagree more. Quinn Cook was the only Duke guard with more than rudimentary passing skills and his knee problems precluded his getting major PT. Seth Curry and Tyler Thornton brought many positives to the Duke basketball team but neither passed at a high level. Both are under-sized shooting guards. Austin Rivers only mastered the first half of drive-and-dish and Andre Dawkins never mastered either.

I can state with absolute certainty that the Duke coaches were frustrated with the team's inability to pass better.

[Duke76]

Could not disagree more. Quinn Cook was the only Duke guard with more than rudimentary passing skills and his knee problems precluded his getting major PT. Seth Curry and Tyler Thornton brought many positives to the Duke basketball team but neither passed at a high level. Both are under-sized shooting guards. Austin Rivers only mastered the first half of drive-and-dish and Andre Dawkins never mastered either.

I can state with absolute certainty that the Duke coaches were frustrated with the team's inability to pass better.

I was just getting ready to pose that question, wondering about the coaches thoughts concerning their passing and assists inabilities, thanks for clearing that up but I wish K had been a little more demonstrative about that during the games...he never appeared to really get in their "grill" about it that I could tell which was uncharacteristic.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Could not disagree more. Quinn Cook was the only Duke guard with more than rudimentary passing skills and his knee problems precluded his getting major PT. Seth Curry and Tyler Thornton brought many positives to the Duke basketball team but neither passed at a high level. Both are under-sized shooting guards. Austin Rivers only mastered the first half of drive-and-dish and Andre Dawkins never mastered either.

I can state with absolute certainty that the Duke coaches were frustrated with the team's inability to pass better.

Jim, I'm sure they were frustrated. But with all due respect, a simple entry bounce pass is not that hard to teach. Mason can seal his man almost every time with his quickness and strength and the entry bounce pass would be open, and if not, it would only be because of a double team which would have made Duke an even more dangerous shooting team.

Rotate the ball on the wing, set some baseline screens and LOOK for the bounce pass to Mason on the low block. This team just never committed to it. They settled for jump shots and dribble drives.

[Duke76]

Jim, I'm sure they were frustrated. But with all due respect, a simple entry bounce pass is not that hard to teach. Mason can seal his man almost every time with his quickness and strength and the entry bounce pass would be open, and if not, it would only be because of a double team which would have made Duke an even more dangerous shooting team.

Rotate the ball on the wing, set some baseline screens and LOOK for the bounce pass to Mason on the low block. This team just never committed to it. They settled for jump shots and dribble drives.

Not sure you guys are really disagreeing,,,most on this thread see the inability to pass as one of the significant problems...the question is why...their physical inabilities or their mental desire to and why the coaches were unable to rectify it.

[gumbomoop]

...a simple entry bounce pass is not that hard to teach.

I'm not trying to settle the debate. I think Wheat's word "commitment" [earlier post] is interesting, possibly controversial, but I need to think about exactly what that means, and maybe even what Wheat means by it. However, if it's easy to teach, scores of coaches fail to do so with scores of players.

I have posted, repeatedly, my dismay at what a high % of players cannot execute a simple entry pass.

I assume, but do not know for sure, that many players are shown how to do it, execute it with some success in practice, but then in a game, they look in for a second, and then, no, not gonna try it, too dicey. [I go nuts....]

Roy didn't teach Kendall to do it. Matta didn't teach Craft to do it. Some guys can do it; others seem to have no confidence, or hand-eye-angle coordination, and ignore their presumably increasingly frustrated big guys.

[lilblue]

Does anybody know if Austin has actually signed with an agent yet?

[Kedsy]

Ha...that's some good massaging of the stats. I could just as easily say that in the games before Kyrie's injury, Mason was great; if you take out the Princeton game, he averaged 11.8 ppg and scored in single digits only two (2) times.

Well, you could say it, but you'd be wrong. He scored in single digits three (3) times in the 7 games (not counting Princeton). And he still only scored more than 10 points once, which is hardly "great."

However, in the games immediately following the injury, Mason had point totals of 2, 3, 2, 4, 2, 14, 0, 3, 5, 7, 0. While Mason started coming back on towards the end of the season after that stretch, it's hard to say that there wasn't a very noticeable drop-off there.

I agree there was a dropoff, although I'm not sure you can attribute it to missing Kyrie, other than in the general sense that the whole offense needed time to re-invent itself without Kyrie. I even agree that having Kyrie in the lineup helped Mason score more. What I disagree with is that Mason was a force with Kyrie and lost without Kyrie. If you view the Marquette game as the outlier that it was and look at the entire season as a whole (rather than focus on the games immediately after or immediately before Kyrie's injury), Mason achieved only marginally better stats with Kyrie than he did without.

I'll put it another way: if the Marquette game hadn't happened, would anybody say having Kyrie in the lineup was critical to Mason's stats? I say no.

[El_Diablo]

Well, you could say it, but you'd be wrong. He scored in single digits three (3) times in the 7 games (not counting Princeton). And he still only scored more than 10 points once, which is hardly "great."



I agree there was a dropoff, although I'm not sure you can attribute it to missing Kyrie, other than in the general sense that the whole offense needed time to re-invent itself without Kyrie. I even agree that having Kyrie in the lineup helped Mason score more. What I disagree with is that Mason was a force with Kyrie and lost without Kyrie. If you view the Marquette game as the outlier that it was and look at the entire season as a whole (rather than focus on the games immediately after or immediately before Kyrie's injury), Mason achieved only marginally better stats with Kyrie than he did without.

I'll put it another way: if the Marquette game hadn't happened, would anybody say having Kyrie in the lineup was critical to Mason's stats? I say no.

Well, no, I wouldn't really be wrong, because the Butler game did not occur before the injury; hence my exclusion of that game from my analysis. So again, it's two (2). You may think that's being slightly disingenuous, but so is excluding the Marquette game. You can't just ignore statistics that don't support your narrative (like the Marquette game).

I'm not necessarily saying Kyrie's presence was absolutely critical to Mason having a good game. But Mason's offensive performance simply went off a cliff right after the injury happened. It wasn't just a slight dropoff--there were multiple games in which he failed to get more than one FG. Yes, the whole offense might have suffered, but the whole offense wasn't reduced by 50% like Mason was. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but as the chart below shows, Mason had been benefiting from a nice percentage of Kyrie's assists (thicker line = more assists).

101209.09.jpg

Look, I never said "Mason was a force with Kyrie and lost without Kyrie." In fact, as I said before, I agree with you in rejecting the Abdul-Jabbar comparison as over-the-top. But I just think it's misleading to say "oh, he only scored more than 10 points once...therefore it was pretty much the same" when in fact he had scored exactly 10 points three times and 25 once...then went on a severe drought for quite a while after Kyrie was sidelined.

[Bluealum]

Could not disagree more. Quinn Cook was the only Duke guard with more than rudimentary passing skills and his knee problems precluded his getting major PT. Seth Curry and Tyler Thornton brought many positives to the Duke basketball team but neither passed at a high level. Both are under-sized shooting guards. Austin Rivers only mastered the first half of drive-and-dish and Andre Dawkins never mastered either.

I can state with absolute certainty that the Duke coaches were frustrated with the team's inability to pass better.

I could not agree more with this and find some relief knowing that the coaches were particularly frustrated by this. This is precisely why I think that Quinn playing in front of Tyler or Seth next year is absolutely critical to the potential of the team. For all the fine qualities those two bring, passing is not and will not be a real strength of theirs, and as shooting guards it need not be. The centrality of passing in the game, I believe gets short shrift in lineup discussions fairly often on the board, relative to offensive efficiency and defensive prowess which are more easily measured individually. Kendall Marshall, who many weren't all that impressed with (too slow/can't shoot) when he was recruited to Carolina, showed what great passing can do for a team, even when he confirmed repeatedly that he was not an elite shooter or defender.

There is no one on the roster and no one I have heard of, from a recruiting point of view for next year, that appears to have the court vision and passing acumen of Quinn. I hope he is allowed to play through and improve upon his other deficiencies on the court for this reason alone. A lot of hope and optimism rests on his ability to heal and improve defensively over the course of the summer.

[MarkD83]

I assume, but do not know for sure, that many players are shown how to do it, execute it with some success in practice, but then in a game, they look in for a second, and then, no, not gonna try it, too dicey. [I go nuts....]

Is the inability to want to make the entry pass the product of AAU ball or desire for guards to showcase their skills. The subconcious scenario is as follows: I am the best player on my team (AAU or high school), I want folks to notice my skills, Wow the big guy is open but I can beat my man off the dribble or shoot over him. What highlights my skills for the coaches and scouts.

If you are a point guard (Marshall, Craft) your skills are passing so the pass goes to the big man. If you are a wing or shooting guard you are very reluctant to pass the ball since that is NOT what gets you to the next level.

[OldSchool]

If you're not enjoying watching the Celtics destroy the Heat, I can report that the sideline reporter interviewed Austin who is watching the game in person. They reported that he is flying back to Durham after the game in order to be in class tomorrow, and that Coach K was extremely impressed that since Austin made his decision he hasn't missed a class.

The reporter asked him why he was still going to classes and Austin said he plans to get a degree and graduate from Duke.

[Kedsy]

The reporter asked him why he was still going to classes and Austin said he plans to get a degree and graduate from Duke.

This should be in the appreciate Austin thread. He really seems like a great kid, no matter how the press has tried to portray him.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Can someone please explain to me what this means besides the fact that Ric Bucher still doesn't know the difference between twins and brothers?
How can an agent "land" a player "if they go pro"?

"Draft buzz is agent Mark Bartlestein has landed Plumlee Twins and Jeff Schwartz will rep Tyler Zeller. If and when, of course, they go pro."
https://twitter.com/#!/RicBucher

[superdave]

Can someone please explain to me what this means besides the fact that Ric Bucher still doesn't know the difference between twins and brothers?
How can an agent "land" a player "if they go pro"?

"Draft buzz is agent Mark Bartlestein has landed Plumlee Twins and Jeff Schwartz will rep Tyler Zeller. If and when, of course, they go pro."
https://twitter.com/#!/RicBucher

It sounded to me that if Mason goes pro, this will be his agent. The agent will definitely be representing Miles. I assume Mason has not made a final decision yet.

[DukeGirl4ever]

It sounded to me that if Mason goes pro, this will be his agent. The agent will definitely be representing Miles. I assume Mason has not made a final decision yet.

Thanks Dave! I was trying not to read too much into it and was hoping it wasn't meant to imply anything.

I questioned whether it was an April Fools thing b/c of the Plumlee twins comment but went and found that as early as March 5th, there was talk of Zeller signing with Schwartz.

I also read that Rivers may sign with Schwartz. Not that it matters, but has there been any word on who he has signed with? (Sorry if it was posted earlier.)

[MCFinARL]

It sounded to me that if Mason goes pro, this will be his agent. The agent will definitely be representing Miles. I assume Mason has not made a final decision yet.

Your interpretation looks right--but if the tweet had not been worded so poorly, no interpretation would have been necessary. First off, "if they go pro"? Of the three players named, two have no choice but to go pro if they want to keep playing basketball, since they have played for 4 years already. Second, opening with the idea that this agent will represent both Miles and Mason suggests that Mason has been making tentative agreements with an agent when he might decide to stay in school. Wouldn't that be a no-no? If Miles is signing with this agent, it's reasonable to assume Mason has met him, and it may well be that Mason will sign with him if he goes pro. But to say the agent "has landed" Mason, even with the later "if they go pro" hedge, makes it sound like Mason has already signed.

[CameronCrazy06]

Adrian Wojnarowski from Yahoo Sports tweeted this earlier today:

https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/s...82555818156032

"Two junior forwards sources say still sifting through info, torn on joining NBA Draft: Duke's Mason Plumlee and Indiana's Christian Watford."

Take it for what it's worth. However I feel like the longer this decision takes, the more likely it is he comes back, so maybe this is good news?

[BlueDevil16]

Adrian Wojnarowski from Yahoo Sports tweeted this earlier today:

https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/s...82555818156032

"Two junior forwards sources say still sifting through info, torn on joining NBA Draft: Duke's Mason Plumlee and Indiana's Christian Watford."

Take it for what it's worth. However I feel like the longer this decision takes, the more likely it is he comes back, so maybe this is good news?

Hopefully!

[CDu]

Adrian Wojnarowski from Yahoo Sports tweeted this earlier today:

https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/s...82555818156032

"Two junior forwards sources say still sifting through info, torn on joining NBA Draft: Duke's Mason Plumlee and Indiana's Christian Watford."

Take it for what it's worth. However I feel like the longer this decision takes, the more likely it is he comes back, so maybe this is good news?

I fully expect Mason to continue to wait and see who goes. As the days tick away, more and more big men are going to enter, and that will likely mean more and more big men are going to be ahead of him in the draft process. If he really wants to go, then I hope he can find a 1st round spot. If he's even ambivalent about going or staying, then selfishly I hope he sees that he's on the border of the 1st/2nd round and comes back for a senior year. Either way, I won't be surprised if we don't see a decision from him for a few more weeks.

[MCFinARL]

I fully expect Mason to continue to wait and see who goes. As the days tick away, more and more big men are going to enter, and that will likely mean more and more big men are going to be ahead of him in the draft process. If he really wants to go, then I hope he can find a 1st round spot. If he's even ambivalent about going or staying, then selfishly I hope he sees that he's on the border of the 1st/2nd round and comes back for a senior year. Either way, I won't be surprised if we don't see a decision from him for a few more weeks.

This makes sense--if the main thing he needs to know at this point is not how the NBA teams see him but who else is coming out, there's no reason to try to wrap everything up April 29--he can just preserve his NCAA eligibility until the last possible moment, when he'll have a clearer idea how many big guys will be ahead of him.