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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    Maybe I am cynical or not that understanding, but I have very limited feelings about players like Deng, Magette, Rivers, and Irving. I might give Irving a pass because of his injury but the others very little feeling .

    When you watch Deng or Magette do you get that same warm feeling you do when you see or saw Grant Hill, Shane Battier, Nolan Smith, Christian Laetnner, Gerald Henderson play ?

    Maybe I am in the minority but I have no proud feeling of being a Duke fan when I see Deng or Magette play and I will have the same non feeling when I see Rivers play in the NBA.

    OK he made that great clutch shot at UNC but bailed out after one year when in my opinion he will be a bench player or get very few minutes of play next year, unlike Irving who is a star immediately. His family certainly doesn't need the money.

    Sorry, I will not be rooting for Austin Rivers and in a few years or maybe even sooner , like Deng and Magette, I will probably forget that he even played for Duke.
    Deng's more Duke blue than a lot of four year players. Since he left, he has represented himself, his family and HIS univerisity proudly.

  2. #642
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Tennessee
    I know I'm an just an old fart, but I'm really sorry that we don't have Duke students representing our university. We have mercenaries playing for us now. I guess all major colleges do and this is just an "arms war" in big college basketball,but it makes me sad. It didn't use to be that way, and shouldn't now. We've gone toward the dark side.

  3. #643
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    Feb 2007
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    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    I know I'm an just an old fart, but I'm really sorry that we don't have Duke students representing our university. We have mercenaries playing for us now. I guess all major colleges do and this is just an "arms war" in big college basketball,but it makes me sad. It didn't use to be that way, and shouldn't now. We've gone toward the dark side.
    Give me a break. Mason Plumlee is an Academic All-American. He and Mike Gbinije were Academic All-ACC. Ryan Kelly was Academic All-ACC in 2011 (as was Kyle Singler, and Mason again).

    What grounds do you have to say that the members of our basketball team are any less "Duke students" than the other 6,000 undergrads on campus? I would be willing to wager a not insignificant sum of money that you have absolutely no idea what our student-athletes are doing on campus outside of the 4+ hours per week you watch them on TV competing in a basketball game. Saying that the members of our team are not "Duke students," and implying that they don't represent our University well, is a statement made with absolutely no foundation, is insulting to the members of our team, and is wrong.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    I know I'm an just an old fart, but I'm really sorry that we don't have Duke students representing our university. We have mercenaries playing for us now. I guess all major colleges do and this is just an "arms war" in big college basketball,but it makes me sad. It didn't use to be that way, and shouldn't now. We've gone toward the dark side.
    Why should college basketball players be different than anyone else? People all go to college for the same reasons. They look to better themselves so that they are attractive when the time comes to find a job. It just so happens that athletes in a lot of sports can leave early for a lot of money. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Golf, and Tennis players can all leave school early to turn professional. I don't know why they wouldn't if they have millions waiting on them. A lot of "normal" students would do the same if they faced the same opportunities.

    The people who are really selfish are the fans who want the kids to do what makes them happy rather than follow a player's own interest.

  5. #645
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    May 2010
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    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxAMillion View Post
    Why should college basketball players be different than anyone else? People all go to college for the same reasons. They look to better themselves so that they are attractive when the time comes to find a job. It just so happens that athletes in a lot of sports can leave early for a lot of money. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Golf, and Tennis players can all leave school early to turn professional. I don't know why they wouldn't if they have millions waiting on them. A lot of "normal" students would do the same if they faced the same opportunities.

    The people who are really selfish are the fans who want the kids to do what makes them happy rather than follow a player's own interest.
    And a lot do in some atypical career fields that aren't athletics, such as acting, music, computer programming, poker, and entrepreneurship.

    It's not just basketball that can tempt someone out or away from college.

    - Chillin

  6. #646
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Plumlee seems to consistently hover right around the end of the first round in the mock drafts. That's a dangerous place to be, as teams picking in the 20s don't like to draft Americans there. They balk at being forced to spend guaranteed money (and burn valuable cap space) on players who often aren't going to contribute (remember - these are mostly playoff teams, so they've got good talent already).

    The draft boards are completely void of Euros, which will not be the case come draft day. If the mocks are even close to on target, then unless Mason really wants to leave he'll be running quite a risk by declaring. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see. I hate it for Mason if he really wants to go, but from a Duke fan perspective hoping to see him play another year in our uniform, seeing his name that low is a good sign.

  7. #647
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    Deng's more Duke blue than a lot of four year players. Since he left, he has represented himself, his family and HIS univerisity proudly.
    We've had this debate before, and people just talk past each other.

    4 year players like Grant or JJ will always resonate more with me than a player like Deng. And that is not a character judgment at all: I know Luol is a fantastic individual. But the simple fact is that I, as a Duke fan who pays little attention to the NBA, didn't see him play enough to generate the same affinity. Same story with Kyrie.

    Rivers, simply because of his shot against Carolina, I will always remember and appreciate. But for me players with less talent (like Capel, for example) will always stand out more in my mind.

    But for Rivers, Irving, Deng et al, their decisions wasn't and shouldn't be about pleasing me, the fickle Duke fan. I don't begrudge Austin (nor did I Kyire or Luol) for leaving after a year.
    Last edited by gus; 03-28-2012 at 01:44 PM. Reason: typo

  8. #648
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxAMillion View Post
    Why should college basketball players be different than anyone else? People all go to college for the same reasons. They look to better themselves so that they are attractive when the time comes to find a job. It just so happens that athletes in a lot of sports can leave early for a lot of money. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Golf, and Tennis players can all leave school early to turn professional. I don't know why they wouldn't if they have millions waiting on them. A lot of "normal" students would do the same if they faced the same opportunities.

    The people who are really selfish are the fans who want the kids to do what makes them happy rather than follow a player's own interest.
    Certainly true, but this analogy is usually presented as a lottery: few people would turn down a once in a life time offer to stay in school. But for an NBA bound player, it's not usually once in a life time is it? The league will still be there in another year.

  9. #649
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    We've had this debate before, and people just talk past each other.

    4 year players like Grant or JJ will always resonate more with me than a player like Deng. And that is not a character judgment at all: I know Luol is a fantastic individual. But the simple fact is that I, as a Duke fan who pays little attention to the NBA, didn't see him play enough to generate the same affinity. Same story with Kyrie.

    Rivers, simply because of his shot against Carolina, I will always remember and appreciate. But for me players with less talent (like Capel, for example) will always stand out more in my mind.

    But for Rivers, Irving, Deng et al, their decisions wasn't and shouldn't be about pleasing me, the fickle Duke fan. I don't begrudge Austin (nor did I Kyire or Luol) for leaving after a year.
    I have to agree that being a huge NBA fan has kept me close to the Duke one and done guys. In fact, I think it's crazy to not watch our guys in the NBA which is why I want to put in a big plug to watch the NBA playoffs this year as many of our guys will play key roles for several contenders. Namely:

    -Watching Shane play with the Heat is a lot of fun. I understand that people hate the Heat, but the joy of simply watching Shane box out, play help defense, and generally carry out the game plan is awesome. 31 is slowing down, and he's playing with the highest profile basketball team in the world right now. As the spotlight glues to them this Spring, put aside your NBA dislike and watch him as he goes for that NBA ring.

    -Deng and Boozer are huge parts of a very entertaining Bulls team. With any luck, we'll have them playing the Heat and gets lots of Duke cheering in. You can't lose with Duke guys on both sides of the game.

    -JJ is great on the Magic, and they will be a very tough out for anyone in the East. JJ is the only guy I ever see who always looks to feed Dwight Howard, and their 3 point bombing offense gets him plenty of open looks. Plus, Stan Van trusts him so unless the match-up is horrible, he usually plays crunch time minutes. Duhon also gets 20 mpg

    -Elton is a key figure, the wiley veteran starter, with the 76ers. His achilles injury has robbed him of his springs, but he still has that feathery touch around the hoop.

    -Out West is more of a mixed bag. Most of our guys aren't on playoff teams (Lance, Nolan, Grant) but you'll see plenty of Josh McRoberts playing for LA. Ok, maybe not plenty, but he usually gets some run, and its always fun to see if he's going to draw Kobe's ire.

    I know all of this isn't news, but the NBA playoffs are much better than the regular season and if you tune into the Eastern Conference match-ups, especially in the 2nd round and after, you'll probably see more than a few of our guys getting after it.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    -Out West is more of a mixed bag. Most of our guys aren't on playoff teams (Lance, Nolan, Grant) but you'll see plenty of Josh McRoberts playing for LA. Ok, maybe not plenty, but he usually gets some run, and its always fun to see if he's going to draw Kobe's ire.
    Plus, y'know, on the off chance than Bynum gets hurt (I know, crazy, right?) Josh could be in line to see his minutes increase substantially. Wouldn't surprise me if he's playing significant minutes in big games before the season ends.

  11. #651
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    -Watching Shane play with the Heat is a lot of fun. I understand that people hate the Heat, but the joy of simply watching Shane box out, play help defense, and generally carry out the game plan is awesome. 31 is slowing down, and he's playing with the highest profile basketball team in the world right now. As the spotlight glues to them this Spring, put aside your NBA dislike and watch him as he goes for that NBA ring.

    -Deng and Boozer are huge parts of a very entertaining Bulls team. With any luck, we'll have them playing the Heat and gets lots of Duke cheering in. You can't lose with Duke guys on both sides of the game.
    As a Bulls fan, I'm very much in support of Deng and Boozer. And I'd note that while it may be fun to watch Battier do what he does best in the regular season, it's very possible that he'll get minimal run come the Playoffs. He's getting about a half game's worth of minutes right now, and rotations usually tighten in the playoffs (when there is more rest between games and each possession means more). He's competing with Miller and Jones for the backup SG/SF minutes and Haslem for the backup PF minutes. And with Wade, James, and Bosh likely to get even more minutes than they already do, somebody is going to get squeezed. I hope it's not Battier, but it very well could be (especially if Miller gets healthy).

  12. #652
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    We've had this debate before, and people just talk past each other.

    4 year players like Grant or JJ will always resonate more with me than a player like Deng. And that is not a character judgment at all: I know Luol is a fantastic individual. But the simple fact is that I, as a Duke fan who pays little attention to the NBA, didn't see him play enough to generate the same affinity. Same story with Kyrie.

    Rivers, simply because of his shot against Carolina, I will always remember and appreciate. But for me players with less talent (like Capel, for example) will always stand out more in my mind.

    But for Rivers, Irving, Deng et al, their decisions wasn't and shouldn't be about pleasing me, the fickle Duke fan. I don't begrudge Austin (nor did I Kyire or Luol) for leaving after a year.
    This is an excellent analysis of the facts, Gus, and I agree completely with you. Plus, I will add that rational people make decisions which are in their own best interests.

  13. #653
    Can somebody explain to me why Mason is considered a better NBA prospect than Miles? I'm not trying to bash Mason at all, but I honestly thought Miles was a slightly better player down the stretch of the season, especially defensively. But obviously the NBA looks for different things, typically athleticism and explosiveness. But Miles is ridiculously athletic and had the highest vertical leap on the team.

    Miles averaged 0.32 points per minute and .34 rebounds/min on 61% FG and 63% FT and a RIDICULOUS 1.81 points per possession (#4 in the entire nation for players >3 possessions/game). PPP = points scored divided by total possessions ended by shot or turnover and minus offensive rebounds. And Miles' defense in the post looked better to me than Mason; their offensive post moves I'd call a wash, although Mason probably looked for his shot a bit more often. Miles had some nice hook shots and Mason with some nice under moves (as long as he didn't travel). Mason averaged 0.39 points per minute and 0.32 rebounds per minute on 57% FG and 53% FT. Mason's points per possession was 1.23.

    So, basically their point and rebound production on a per-minute basis were almost equivalent, but I think Miles is the better defender and he is definitely the better shooter. They are both very athletic. So, why is it that NBA teams prefer Mason to Miles? Somebody please help me understand it better. I don't see why no NBA teams would consider Miles as he seems like a very athletic big man to me (something relatively rare...he's no Zoubs that for sure).

  14. #654
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Can somebody explain to me why Mason is considered a better NBA prospect than Miles? I'm not trying to bash Mason at all, but I honestly thought Miles was a slightly better player down the stretch of the season, especially defensively. But obviously the NBA looks for different things, typically athleticism and explosiveness. But Miles is ridiculously athletic and had the highest vertical leap on the team.

    Miles averaged 0.32 points per minute and .34 rebounds/min on 61% FG and 63% FT and a RIDICULOUS 1.81 points per possession (#4 in the entire nation for players >3 possessions/game). PPP = points scored divided by total possessions ended by shot or turnover and minus offensive rebounds. And Miles' defense in the post looked better to me than Mason; their offensive post moves I'd call a wash, although Mason probably looked for his shot a bit more often. Miles had some nice hook shots and Mason with some nice under moves (as long as he didn't travel). Mason averaged 0.39 points per minute and 0.32 rebounds per minute on 57% FG and 53% FT. Mason's points per possession was 1.23.

    So, basically their point and rebound production on a per-minute basis were almost equivalent, but I think Miles is the better defender and he is definitely the better shooter. They are both very athletic. So, why is it that NBA teams prefer Mason to Miles? Somebody please help me understand it better.
    Probably a few reasons:
    1. Miles is a year older and thus is a year less likely to improve
    2. Miles has gotten his numbers as a purely complementary player and often as a reserve, whereas Mason has been a focal point of the offense at times and has almost always started
    3. Miles has had only managed to average more than 20 minutes per game once in his 4 years (and this year it was just barely), whereas Mason has done so twice in 3 years
    4. Cumulative stats carry extra cache. Mason has now averaged 8+ rpg twice and 10+ ppg once. Miles has never topped 7 ppg and only got to 7 rpg this year
    5. Mason has been on the radar longer (which is partly a function of the above)

    The NBA is going to consider room for development, so you'd have to compare Miles to what Mason was last year. And it really isn't close. Mason has been one year (or more) ahead of Miles in development every step of the way (freshman Mason = sophomore Miles, sophomore Mason > junior Miles, junior Mason > senior Miles, senior Mason (?)).

    That's not to say that Miles can't make it in the league. He'll probably have to go the D-League route like Lance Thomas. But with a couple of more years of development I'm sure he could find a spot with his athleticism.

  15. #655
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    I know I'm an just an old fart, but I'm really sorry that we don't have Duke students representing our university. We have mercenaries playing for us now. I guess all major colleges do and this is just an "arms war" in big college basketball,but it makes me sad. It didn't use to be that way, and shouldn't now. We've gone toward the dark side.
    It's not like that at Lehigh.

  16. #656

    Playing with his brother..

    Hi,

    This is neither a rumor nor based on any facts that I know of, but I have this feeling that Mason really wants to have a chance to play basketball at Duke with his little brother. Redshirting MP3 might have been the best thing Duke did to entice MP2 to stay.

    GO DUKE!

  17. #657
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    Feb 2009
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    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    That's not to say that Miles can't make it in the league. He'll probably have to go the D-League route like Lance Thomas. But with a couple of more years of development I'm sure he could find a spot with his athleticism.
    I really hope he does. We haven't really discussed the possibility here lately, but he certainly seems like he could be a Chris Anderson-type role player. Lord knows the N.O. Hornets could use a 26 year-old Miles Plumlee as an extra, big, athletic body right now.

    It'll be interesting to see if he can catch on somewhere. He's certainly got the workout measurables that scouts love.

  18. #658
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    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Kewlswim View Post
    Hi,

    This is neither a rumor nor based on any facts that I know of, but I have this feeling that Mason really wants to have a chance to play basketball at Duke with his little brother. Redshirting MP3 might have been the best thing Duke did to entice MP2 to stay.

    GO DUKE!
    If it's not based on any facts, doesn't that by definition make it a rumor?
    1200. DDMF.

  19. #659
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    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    The 99 The FAN will be airing an interview with Austin tomorrow morning discussing his decision to turn pro.

  20. #660
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    If it's not based on any facts, doesn't that by definition make it a rumor?
    ru·mor   /ˈrumər/ [roo-mer]
    noun
    1. a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts: a rumor of war.
    I think the key here is whether it's considered "in general circulation". An element that I think the definition is missing is "presented as true".

    In neither case does speculation (that is properly qualified) fit.

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