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  1. #541
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Fortunately, I have repressed most of my memories of the 2007 team, ... It would seem reasonable to conclude that "chemistry problems" were "maturity problems." And it seems far-fetched to single out Josh for blame, who, although only a sophomore, was 2nd team All-ACC.... sagegrouse
    While the 07 team was indeed young, I beg to differ on the diagnosis [ed. - well, could we be talking a distinction without a difference? Maturity problems lead to chemistry problems?]. Yes, Josh put up good numbers - he played the most minutes of anyone - but I am referring to that unscientific "eye" test to which many here are, to mix metaphors, tone-deaf. When you see a player often scowling, sulking, complaining/whining, not encouraging his teammates or communicating in a positive manner, not often smiling/celebrating good plays, etc., you are left with an impression of bad chemistry. For contrast, temember Kyrie's attitude when he was sidelined with his toe injury? Remember how he was SO positive, encouraging, celebrating, cheering? Did you see how Aaron Craft gathered his teammates in a huddle during OSU's game last night, communicating and showing leadership? Taking the blame in a positive way when he picked up 2 quick fouls, but immediately going back and playing tough D? The opposite of that.

    True, none of us can get inside any player's mind, and probably none of us are in the locker room, practices, etc., to see how things really go between players and with coaches. All we can go on is what we see and stats. Josh was no bust, he was a productive player and you correctly noted his recognition. However, there's a significant number of us who note when a player seems to have a negative demeanor on the court. We're not talking swagger or intensity, we're talking negativity, and there's a difference. Dismissing it out of hand implies we've never had this issue, unless Bobby Hurley's freshman year is the only case you'll concede (and even then, for all his sulking/whining, he was a positive vocal leader with teammates).
    Last edited by cspan37421; 03-25-2012 at 10:58 AM. Reason: added ed. comment

  2. #542
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    I beg to differ. I think Supa Dave made the same point upstream, and I beg to differ with him, too. The NBA isn't all that interested in player development. That's why they went to the 19 minimum age rule that established the one-and-done. The NBA would set the league age at 20 and be glad to let the NCAA cash in on (I''m sorry, I meant "developing") their pool of unpaid labor if they could get away with it. The NBA is all about minutes and contracts. If you're not getting minutes, you're not getting better. If you have a contract, you can do what you want until it's time to worry about the next one. Lastly, you can make a nice career in the NBA with one major-plus skill and absolutely nothing else. For example, I'm thinking of Mike Miller (3 pointers), JaVale McGee or Slammin Sammy Dalembert (shotblocking), Reggie Evans (rebounding), and in years past, Ben Wallace, Bruce Bowen, etc.

    Sure, there might be more practices because the season is longer, but it's such a grind the practices aren't really for instruction. A few NBA teams who do want to develop players (e.g. Dallas, San Antonio) are investing into D-league teams, but they're the exception. It's not unusual for mid or low first round picks to cash their 3 year rookie deal, ride some pine, and then wash out of the league.

    To use your example, Austin's not going to get better working against Rondo, because Rondo's only going at half speed. The real development at the college age is in the weight room - the player growing into his body, getting stronger, and (hopefully) maturing as a person. If Austin doesn't have a left hand now, he's not going to get one over the summer.

    The reason people are so divided about Austin is because his NBA career has such a wide range of possibilities. Sure, he could make a couple all-star teams, or he could have a rank-and-file / journeyman career like JJ, Duhon, or GHenderson. Lot of room in between, too. That's why the right team with the right mix of players is so important. For example, if Austin winds up in Sacramento, he might as well be in Azkaban for all the good it will do his career...
    Well, I'm just gonna have to tell you that you're wrong about this. Not only have I attended NBA practices, I've attended NBA workouts. Have you ever seen a 5 on 5 on 5 drill? Probably not but let me tell you that it is one of the sickest basketball things I've seen in my life with NBA players.

    How are you gonna call Austin a one trick pony and then detail successful careers of others who have thrived off a couple of skills? Doesn't make sense.

    Austin is a special talent and a hard worker. He probably knows the NBA schedule better than his class schedule. NBA players don't just practice with their teams. It's a LIFESTYLE. There's no class to go to. It's basketball year round - you know kinda like how Austin grew up.

    As far as size goes, I'm just gonna end all of your speculation on that. Jeff Teague, John Lucas Jr, (who I happen to know that Austin is better than right NOW), John Wall, Jeremy Lin, JJ Reddick, Mike Conley Jr, and a host of others are all similarly situated or smaller than Austin and they ALL get "minutes". Austin was shaking John Wall before he even came to Duke - think about that. In fact, does ANYONE remember what Durant looked like when he left Texas? Does it look like Rubio is bench pressing 300 pounds? Corey Brewer is 6'9 and a 188 pounds!! Come on guys - some things just don't matter.

    NBA teams don't care about developing their players? This is all but absurd when you consider what the Lakers have done with Bynum, the time the Pistons gave Darko, and the fact that the Wizards gave Kwame a personal assistant. These are grown men so you can't MAKE them work out but if they want it then the NBA has the facilities, the trainers, and the personnel. I know Tim Grover's name for a reason and so does everyone else.

    Then you managed to call two players who have never switched teams journeyman. JJ is nearly the definition of a team letting a player mature (remember they would NOT get rid of him) and G is on a team determined to rebuild through the draft while developing that young squad. Additionally, Duhon was a second round pick and he's picked up 3 contracts now - sounds pretty successful if you ask me.

    You think Tyler Thornton at full speed is better than Rondo at half-speed? LOL!

    Next you'll be telling me that Lebron James should have gone to college too.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukeface88 View Post
    I really don't understand all the Austin bashing on this board right now. He led the team in scoring (and led all freshmen in scoring, and was 8th in the conference overall) and was rookie of the year and first-team All-ACC. If you want to compare him to some of our recent shooting guards, he scored more points, shot at a higher percentage, tallied more assists, and pulled in more rebounds than both freshman-year JJ Reddick and Jon Scheyer. What more do you all want from the guy? That isn't a rhetorical question - I seriously want to know what some of you guys think Austin "should" have done.

    Meh, the haters will say that Kyrie doesn't count since he only played 11 games, even if we all know better.
    I can't speak as to what others think Austin should have, but your comparison to scheyer and redick is flawed. Both had a higher true shooting percentage than Austin while redick had a significantly higher eFG% (scheyer was about the same. Redick had a higher WIn Share by just over a win while scheyers was slightly higher.

    As to the supposed chemistry issues, I think it's out of line to lay them at Austin's feet. Can he appear t have bad body language at times? Sure, but no one outside of duke basketball knows what went on and accusing or insinuating that it is an 18 yo freshman's fault just isn't right.

  4. #544
    What do you guys think about MP2 and the draft? It looks like he will only go if he gets drafted in the first round, is that likely?

  5. #545
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    The assumption that Austin's demeanor is the root cause of the perceived team chemistry problem is a bit of a stretch. The kid gives his all everytime out there on the floor, one of our best defenders out there, and he's only a freshman... I believe he's the only one this year to slap the floor, something that many here have been asking for, he got that killer instinct that a championship team
    has to have. The kid definitely has a game face when he's on the floor, what's wrong with that, I've seen him celebrate with and for his teammates during games. The kid indeed has swagger which an elite team needs in order to take and absorb the punches that will be thrown it's way, I'd say I would love to see more of our kids with half the swagger that Laettner, Hurley, Hill, Jason Williams or Redick.

    Could there have been chemistry problem because others felt the pressure to play well or have there minutes given to a freshman? Perhaps, but that is then their responsibility to work that much harder to keep that from happening!

    Austin appears to be a good kid, I for one hope he returns... We need his skillset to go with our plethora of outside shooters.

  6. #546
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cabbagetown, Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Then you managed to call two players who have never switched teams journeyman. JJ is nearly the definition of a team letting a player mature (remember they would NOT get rid of him) and G is on a team determined to rebuild through the draft while developing that young squad. Additionally, Duhon was a second round pick and he's picked up 3 contracts now - sounds pretty successful if you ask me.
    If I'm reading his post correctly, I think that Turk was referring to JJ and G as rank-and-file, and Duhon as a journeyman.

  7. #547
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Most of us who have played basketball at any level have played with "that guy." The guy who never passes, overdribbles, takes ridiculous ill-advised shots because he can hit 1 of 6, and either plays no defense or is constantly trying for cheap steals while the man he's supposed to be guarding is open under the basket. It's hard to play well with a teammate like that, hard to commit yourself to getting back on defense or make any effort to get open on offense since you know you won't get the ball. After awhile you just give up.

    I think some people are trying to paint Austin as "that guy." But he isn't. He's not close. He seems to always give maximum effort, has committed himself to improving on D (to the point where he was our best perimeter defender), and when he dribbles into a triple-team or puts up a three early in the shot clock, it seems to be more of a freshman judgment thing rather than a one-on-five mindset. When the game is on the line he wants the ball and wants to be the guy who scores, but that's a very different thing. Trying to pin any perceived "chemistry" problems on Austin just seems unfair to me.

  8. #548
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevil16 View Post
    What do you guys think about MP2 and the draft? It looks like he will only go if he gets drafted in the first round, is that likely?
    Very hard to tell - is there a master list somewhere of who else has declared early and who else has used up eligibility? It obviously hinges a great deal on that.

    I would love for him to stay, but it's mostly out of selfish reasons. Although it's not like he can't continue to improve at Duke, there's not a ton he needs. The short list is FT shooting and midrange jumper. His FT shooting improved through the year quite a bit, so although his ending average wasn't great, it started REALLY low, IIRC, so I'd like to see a rolling average). I don't think he's used a midrange jump shot much (Miles could), but then again, he hasn't had to. I'm not sure if he stayed he would need to, either. He could, but he just probably wouldn't need it in college.

    I have no idea what teams need and how Mason has looked vs. others in any summer leagues he's played in. I think he's really good, but he's not bulky, and the NBA can be a pretty physical league. I'd love for him to stay and dominate as a senior, assuming he gets enough touches. It would have the added benefit of him tutoring MP3. It's a really tough call and whatever happens, I wish him the best!

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Most of us who have played basketball at any level have played with "that guy." The guy who never passes, overdribbles, takes ridiculous ill-advised shots because he can hit 1 of 6, and either plays no defense or is constantly trying for cheap steals while the man he's supposed to be guarding is open under the basket. It's hard to play well with a teammate like that, hard to commit yourself to getting back on defense or make any effort to get open on offense since you know you won't get the ball. After awhile you just give up.

    I think some people are trying to paint Austin as "that guy." But he isn't. He's not close. He seems to always give maximum effort, has committed himself to improving on D (to the point where he was our best perimeter defender), and when he dribbles into a triple-team or puts up a three early in the shot clock, it seems to be more of a freshman judgment thing rather than a one-on-five mindset. When the game is on the line he wants the ball and wants to be the guy who scores, but that's a very different thing. Trying to pin any perceived "chemistry" problems on Austin just seems unfair to me.
    I respectfully disagree......I think the only problem people have with Rivers is he came to Duke to leave Duke as soon as possible, not to stay and contribute all he can to the program. No matter who a kid is, they can do only so much for a program by staying just one year. Just look at the contributions seniors and other upperclassmen are making for their teams in the tournament. No matter how good you may be, a one year stint usually does very little for the overall program you are playing for. It's nothing personal, it is just what it is. I have never questioned coack K on anything, however, personally I would love to see him just pass over these one and done guys and recruit good, solid players who can really deliver in a few years. Every championship Duke has ever won was becauise of those kind of players, not these one year wonders. It is just a matter of opinion, at the end of the day, and certainly nothing personal towards anyone.

  10. #550
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    i think living down your father and brother's legacy while trying to BE THE MAN when a more talented youngster with ANOTHER famous father comes to town and shines the light on you NOT being the man even more could possibly add to team dysfunction...

    saves duke indeed....
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  11. #551
    90% of this thread is embarrassing to me as a Duke fan. Austin Rivers completely bought in to everything about Duke basketball during his time here. He was our best player and single handedly gave us a dramatic victory at UNC that will be replayed constantly for as long as that rivalry exists. I think that a lot of people are projecting things into Austin's personality that were mostly generated by Duke haters - if you ever listened to him talk about Duke or the team, you would realize that he was a great representative for us.

    It's clear that some people still haven't gotten over players leaving early, a full 13 years after the meltdown over the '99 exodus. We had people ripping on Kyrie last year. Like it or not, that's college basketball now and K has made the decision to recruit players who are open about potentially leaving after one year.

    Any shortcomings to Rivers game were basketball related, not personality related. I saw no evidence that he was trying to play selfishly. If he didn't exactly master the line between scoring and playmaking, it's probably because he was a freshman one year removed from high school ball. If our team didn't exactly mesh on the court this year, it's dumb to turn on our own guys by blaming it on any one player or another, and it's really dumb to speculate that it was the result of negative personality motivation by anyone. If Austin leaves, I certainly hope that the team that we have will click better than this year's did at the end, but that won't mean that it wouldn't have clicked better with Austin there anyway, no matter what Doug Gottlieb says.

  12. #552
    I agree with Sir Stealth. Let's have more class than to tear down a teenager who did his best.

  13. #553
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Scrap Metal Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Well, I'm just gonna have to tell you that you're wrong about this. Not only have I attended NBA practices, I've attended NBA workouts. Have you ever seen a 5 on 5 on 5 drill? Probably not but let me tell you that it is one of the sickest basketball things I've seen in my life with NBA players.

    How are you gonna call Austin a one trick pony and then detail successful careers of others who have thrived off a couple of skills? Doesn't make sense.

    Austin is a special talent and a hard worker. He probably knows the NBA schedule better than his class schedule. NBA players don't just practice with their teams. It's a LIFESTYLE. There's no class to go to. It's basketball year round - you know kinda like how Austin grew up.

    As far as size goes, I'm just gonna end all of your speculation on that. Jeff Teague, John Lucas Jr, (who I happen to know that Austin is better than right NOW), John Wall, Jeremy Lin, JJ Reddick, Mike Conley Jr, and a host of others are all similarly situated or smaller than Austin and they ALL get "minutes". Austin was shaking John Wall before he even came to Duke - think about that. In fact, does ANYONE remember what Durant looked like when he left Texas? Does it look like Rubio is bench pressing 300 pounds? Corey Brewer is 6'9 and a 188 pounds!! Come on guys - some things just don't matter.

    NBA teams don't care about developing their players? This is all but absurd when you consider what the Lakers have done with Bynum, the time the Pistons gave Darko, and the fact that the Wizards gave Kwame a personal assistant. These are grown men so you can't MAKE them work out but if they want it then the NBA has the facilities, the trainers, and the personnel. I know Tim Grover's name for a reason and so does everyone else.

    Then you managed to call two players who have never switched teams journeyman. JJ is nearly the definition of a team letting a player mature (remember they would NOT get rid of him) and G is on a team determined to rebuild through the draft while developing that young squad. Additionally, Duhon was a second round pick and he's picked up 3 contracts now - sounds pretty successful if you ask me.

    You think Tyler Thornton at full speed is better than Rondo at half-speed? LOL!

    Next you'll be telling me that Lebron James should have gone to college too.
    You're right, I've never attended an NBA practice or workout in person; I'd love to someday but haven't worked up the nerve to ask Coach Collins for an invite yet.

    The one thing Kwame (1st pick), Darko (2), and Bynum (10) all had in common is that they were picked so high in their drafts, and also because dominant centers are so rare (just ask the Sixers). Speaking of JJ, he was 11th pick overall, and for all that patience and hard work, he's established himself as a nice 6th man on a pretty decent team. Let's rewind a bit; if memory serves there was also a lot of discussion about how JJ would do in the NBA after leaving Duke, with a pretty wide range of opinions. All-star? Nope, doesn't look like that's going to happen for JJ. Bust? Nope, that's off the table too, he's proven he can play in the league.

    In addition to his game, Austin also has the huge advantage of his dad's experience, so maybe his career will be better than JJs. He also had a great season as a freshman in the ACC. As good as he is, I don't think he'll have NBA success next season that Kyrie is having.

    Supa, sorry if my post got you all worked up and rhetorical, but I gotta ask you one question: are you telling me Austin can be as good as Lebron?
    "Quality is not an option!"

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stealth View Post
    90% of this thread is embarrassing to me as a Duke fan. Austin Rivers completely bought in to everything about Duke basketball during his time here. He was our best player and single handedly gave us a dramatic victory at UNC that will be replayed constantly for as long as that rivalry exists. I think that a lot of people are projecting things into Austin's personality that were mostly generated by Duke haters - if you ever listened to him talk about Duke or the team, you would realize that he was a great representative for us.

    It's clear that some people still haven't gotten over players leaving early, a full 13 years after the meltdown over the '99 exodus. We had people ripping on Kyrie last year. Like it or not, that's college basketball now and K has made the decision to recruit players who are open about potentially leaving after one year.

    Any shortcomings to Rivers game were basketball related, not personality related. I saw no evidence that he was trying to play selfishly. If he didn't exactly master the line between scoring and playmaking, it's probably because he was a freshman one year removed from high school ball. If our team didn't exactly mesh on the court this year, it's dumb to turn on our own guys by blaming it on any one player or another, and it's really dumb to speculate that it was the result of negative personality motivation by anyone. If Austin leaves, I certainly hope that the team that we have will click better than this year's did at the end, but that won't mean that it wouldn't have clicked better with Austin there anyway, no matter what Doug Gottlieb says.
    i think the main problem people have is this:
    K has made the decision to recruit players who are open about potentially leaving after one year. And so far, it is not working out very well for the team. Sure, there are the regular season wins, but, when money ball starts, it is not fairing very well.

  15. #555
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    IMO bust isn't the right word. He had talent, no doubt.

    But if you don't think the general consensus was that we had chemistry problems and Josh was at the center of it, then I would guess it's impossible to persuade you that we have we have ever had chemistry problems - or that we ever will. And he played with a lot of good players - JJ, Shelden, Jon, DeMarcus, Gerald, Lance, and Paulus at his peak. Right there you have 4 guys in the pros, Demarcus got a cup of coffee in the NBA, and Jon probably would have eventually made it had it not been for that freak and severe eye injury.

    JMO.
    I don't recall Duke having chemistry problems his freshman year. If he didn't live up to some of your expectations either year, I think that that is harsh and misguided. Josh was playing with a bad back, one that required surgery after his freshman year.

    Many people blamed him the season following his summer surgery for what they considered his lackluster play on offense, in particular, his failure to come to the ball when posting with a guy leaning over his back and his poor outside jumper, in particular, and his gripping with teammates. Let me address the first issue. Josh held the defense together and was the principal defensive rebounder and he played both roles spectacularly. He played a one man zone in the middle, blocked, got a piece of, or altered a remarkable number of shots put up by penetrators, and detered many shots by them altogether. At the same time, he played his "man" inside almost always to advantage and did a specular job on the defensive board. I think that those were jobs one and two that that Duke team needed from Josh and would be more than surprised if K did not make that crystal clear.

    On the offensive end, lets not forget that the guy was expending a tremendous amount of energy on the defensive end, needed to be there at the end, and had that recently operated back that probably made it no picnic trying to go for some of the passes thrown to him. The guy who was supposed to be the guy's leader was having problems of his own, caused only in part we were to later learn by a hairline fracture in his foot, and was no shrinking violet. If there were sparks flying, I doubt that McRob was always the precipitant cause, and could understand if he didn't have good reason to carp. As it is, he put up more than respectable numbers. Without what I thought was a remarkbable performance by him, given all the circumstances, Duke would have gotten murdered that season.

    As for leaving early, the guy had a back that required an operation before he was 20 years old. Maybe he had better reasons than most for leaving early, since he could not have known how long that back would hold up. In fact, I think thta it's reasonably clear that the back hads kept McRoberts from reaching his potential. Indiana and then the Lakers saw enough in him to have him starting at various times, the Lakers picked him up and then started him at the beginning of the season, so he must have shown his coaches plenty; it is not unreasonable to thinki that the back just doesn't allow him to perform at his best for long periods or in the intensity of gametime. The fact that he is still around in the pros speaks to the fact that he has a lot more going than guys here are saying, and that he cannot be a difficult teammate to get along with either.

    I agree with Sage that whatever chemistry problems there might have been on that team were attributable to the fact that many of the major players were green (I wouldn't have thought of that unless the Man said it). I also thought that team played up to its potential.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    i think living down your father and brother's legacy while trying to BE THE MAN when a more talented youngster with ANOTHER famous father comes to town and shines the light on you NOT being the man even more could possibly add to team dysfunction...

    saves duke indeed....
    So are you saying two players with nba pedigrees having their own internal competition, and on nba terms like minutes and stats, instead of being focused on the overall team competition that you'd expect would present a difficult coaching challenge? I could see where that might be a challenging team dynamic.

  17. #557
    The problem with Austin is, he wasn't, is not, and might NEVER be, Kyrie. The best thing Austin did was stick one big one in the ears of Zeller, the bad blue and all their rotten fans.

    That's the difference.

  18. #558

    Kyrie vs. Austin

    Other than the fact that they're both highly touted recruits who appear to be one and dones at Duke, there is no comparison in my opinion between Austin and Kyrie. Austin is a great talent, but there's no talk of him going number 1 and very little talk of him being a top 10 pick. They are different types of players. It seemed that the team enjoyed playing with Kyrie more because he without a doubt made everyone else better, Dawkins was raining threes and even driving to the whole, Mason was running the floor and getting 4 ally-oops a game, Kyle was shooting well, and Nolan was being a scorer and playing really well. Austin is a different type of player, he's not a transcendent point guard like Kyrie and I could see where frustration could arise betwixt he and his teammates.

    Bottom line, comparing Austin to Kyrie is unfair, and whatever Austin decides, it is what it is. I would never question Austin's work ethic or the passion he brought to the floor every second he was out there. To say his teammates were less happy with him out there than with Kyrie isn't insulting, its a fair assessment, although its something that none of us will ever know because I can guarantee you that no Duke player or coach will ever say so. I think Austin is ready to go to the league if he so chooses.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by stixof96 View Post
    i think the main problem people have is this:
    K has made the decision to recruit players who are open about potentially leaving after one year. And so far, it is not working out very well for the team. Sure, there are the regular season wins, but, when money ball starts, it is not fairing very well.
    By my count, Duke has had 4 one and dones (assuming Austin is in fact gone). Corey Maggette's team played for the championship and probably should have won it. Not a defining example because he wasn't even a starter (due to the team being so ridiculously good), but his openness to leaving certainly didn't seem to hurt the team.

    Luol Deng's team also went to the Final Four and was a couple of bad breaks in the semifinal from also winning it all. Again, he seemed to fit in very well on that team - his desire to leave after one year didn't seem to hurt us one bit.

    If you think that Kyrie Irving's desire to go to the NBA hurt our team last year, I personally think that that is not a reasonable opinion. He fit in fantastically right from day 1 and then got hurt. It didn't work to reintegrate him on the fly coming off the injury, but that hardly seems to be a result of leaning toward the NBA. He was visibly fully committed to the team throughout the season and a great teammate even under very difficult circumstances. I think that a lot of people believe that if the toe injury had not happened, we would be talking about 2011 Duke as one of the greatest college basketball teams ever, and a back to back champion at that (does anyone even remember that we actually one a national championship just 2 years ago?).

    This year is the only year that you could even reasonably argue that something was wrong with the makeup on the team that had a one and done player. I personally don't lay that at Rivers feet, as he was first team all-ACC, our best player, and single handedly gave us one of Duke's most memorable and satisfying victories ever, but at least this team did have problems clicking the way it should have. There are several other players who also impacted the makeup the team and a million reasons why things didn't work out, so it seems like flawed reasoning to blame the recruitment of one and done players. Taken as a whole and especially considering that the current overwhelming postseason favorite relies heavily on one and done players, your assessment leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accuracy.

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stealth View Post
    If you think that Kyrie Irving's desire to go to the NBA hurt our team last year, I personally think that that is not a reasonable opinion. He fit in fantastically right from day 1 and then got hurt. It didn't work to reintegrate him on the fly coming off the injury, but that hardly seems to be a result of leaning toward the NBA. He was visibly fully committed to the team throughout the season and a great teammate even under very difficult circumstances. I think that a lot of people believe that if the toe injury had not happened, we would be talking about 2011 Duke as one of the greatest college basketball teams ever, and a back to back champion at that (does anyone even remember that we actually one a national championship just 2 years ago?).
    If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas, but if Kyrie stayed healthy, I don't see us losing a game last year. But similar to the comparisons of Kyrie and Austin, this year and last year's team are completely different. Coming into the year I thought we'd be about where we were, didn't see us losing to a 15 seed, but a 2 seed was about what I expected. I thought this team would be really exciting, fast paced, lot of points, pressure defense... Nope. Granted I expected for Alex or G to be a solid contributor, but really, none of what I expected happened and at no real fault of Austins
    Last edited by pfrduke; 03-25-2012 at 05:31 PM.

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