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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    This Duke team was MADE for someone to penetrate and dish to open shooters or throw alley oops to a Plumlee. And it was happening at the beginning of the year...

    Then something changed and we stopped seeing offensive continuity as much.
    Part of this is on Austin's underdeveloped passing skills.

    But much of this is on the coaches. We saw Seth also run the pick and roll and rarely give it to the big guy.

    Early in the year I remember the team running ball reversal and timed backscreens to get Mason the ball in motion on the low block. The guards never got the timing right and we sort of dropped it.

    Then we went to just waiting for Mason to get set on the low block and letting him try to back his man in or roll across the lane with a hook shot.

    Then at some point it seemed like the coaches went all-in with the strategy of jump shots by the guards and Ryan, and having Austin do his thing, and only occasionally going inside usually with telegraphed entry passes.

    I think the coaches gave up way too early on using the big men in motion on timing plays and in getting the ball in the pick and roll.

  2. #422
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I'm not surprised the posts are taking a negative tone towards Austin. What is surprising is that we haven't heard anything concrete yet. Does Austin have faults? Yes, he does, but what transpired this past year can't be placed on his shoulders and his shoulders alone. It was a team effort, win, or lose.
    I don't think anyone is placing it all on AR. Rivers is actually why Duke ended up as good as they were this year, and DEFINITELY why they beat UNC.

    For that, I'll always appreciate him...

    But it's tough to follow an NCAA championship and then Kyrie Irving. We've been spoiled the past few years.

    People had these criticisms of AR in the middle of the season, at the start of the season, as well as now. Can you say the criticisms are unfair or inaccurate?

  3. #423
    I see the similarities between Austin's game and Wade's. But Wade is an elite, explosive athlete. Austin is not. There's just a massive difference in their physiques and athleticism, and I strongly suspect there always will be.

    That leaves two questions: How successful can Austin Rivers be playing Wade's game with his body? Would he be better off developing an approach more suited to his own physical attributes?

    My best guesses are "not very" and "yes." I'm ambivalent about the question of whether he's best able to develop in another year at Duke or in the NBA.

  4. #424
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
    Part of this is on Austin's underdeveloped passing skills.

    But much of this is on the coaches. We saw Seth also run the pick and roll and rarely give it to the big guy.

    Early in the year I remember the team running ball reversal and timed backscreens to get Mason the ball in motion on the low block. The guards never got the timing right and we sort of dropped it.

    Then we went to just waiting for Mason to get set on the low block and letting him try to back his man in or roll across the lane with a hook shot.

    Then at some point it seemed like the coaches went all-in with the strategy of jump shots by the guards and Ryan, and having Austin do his thing, and only occasionally going inside usually with telegraphed entry passes.

    I think the coaches gave up way too early on using the big men in motion on timing plays and in getting the ball in the pick and roll.
    Yea I think the coaches mailed it in with the post feeding. I think you can only yell the same thing so many times before you just give up.

    I remember early in the year, the offense had a real flow to it. Then it went iso-heavy.

    Seth was a guilty party, too, and much more limited offensively than Rivers. Ideally, I'd have liked to see him be more like Scheyer was at the point (I know that's asking a lot)... smart passes, not trying to do too much and hitting spot up 3s.

    A lot went wrong, a lot went right... was an interesting year.

  5. #425
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    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by FellowTraveler View Post
    I see the similarities between Austin's game and Wade's. But Wade is an elite, explosive athlete. Austin is not. There's just a massive difference in their physiques and athleticism, and I strongly suspect there always will be.

    That leaves two questions: How successful can Austin Rivers be playing Wade's game with his body? Would he be better off developing an approach more suited to his own physical attributes?

    My best guesses are "not very" and "yes." I'm ambivalent about the question of whether he's best able to develop in another year at Duke or in the NBA.
    To add to that...

    Think of what a physical toll Wade has taken playing the game the way he does... and how much more solid he is than AR.

    I can't imagine AR taking that kind of punishment unless he bulks up.

  6. #426
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Mary's Place
    The other thing that doesn't make sense is the NCAA's rules about when a player can withdraw and keep eligiblilty. This year they moved the deadline up a month from May 8 to April 10. Why would the NCAA do that? The NBA's own deadline to withdraw is June 18. How exactly is a kid (or coach) supposed to figure out where they stand in the eyes of 30 NBA teams, and in relation to other kids who may or may not come out, in just seven days after the end of the tournament? That's completely insane and yet another indictment of arbitrary NCAA bungling. It's like they're trying to force players to not only declare but forfeit eligibility at the same time, whether or not they're ready.
    "Quality is not an option!"

  7. #427
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Martinsville, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I'm not surprised the posts are taking a negative tone towards Austin. What is surprising is that we haven't heard anything concrete yet.
    WSLS Sports reporter John Appicello just said Austin has decided to declare for the NBA draft. Not sure how 'concrete' that is, though.

  8. #428
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    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Agreed. I think that AR's game is more suited for the NBA.
    I do too. I thought that since watching him play in the Summer League games this year. Numerous times on the perimeter he put on a dribbling show, then pulled up right in the defenders face and nailed the 3. Great NBA type shot, but not really ideal for college.

    The other thing that I think bothered Austin was the numerous times he beat his man, got into the lane and had 3 people waiting to take charges. Early on he drew fouls, but it quickly changed to where ref's I think anticipated the charge and called it. That had to be frustrating. In the NBA, there will be more space. Better athlete's for sure, but more space to create a shot and draw contact.

    All of that said, he did improve a lot this year, and if he returns, I think he can become a really good college player. He really needs to return, get stronger, and work on his game. But in terms of skill set, I do think he is more suited to the NBA style of play.

    I wish him well either way and he is a Dukie for life in my book whether he returns or chases his dream early.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Someone else made a Lou Williams comparison, and I think that's a fair, accurate comparison.
    I disagree. Austin Rivers is a MUCH better player than Lou Williams. He's also 4 inches taller, which makes a difference, especially on defense. Austin does pretty much everything better than Williams did when he first came into the League. This is also Lou Williams's 7th season. In 7 years, Austin will be WAY more accomplished than Lou Williams is now. Really, it's no contest.

  10. #430
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I do too. I thought that since watching him play in the Summer League games this year. Numerous times on the perimeter he put on a dribbling show, then pulled up right in the defenders face and nailed the 3. Great NBA type shot, but not really ideal for college.

    The other thing that I think bothered Austin was the numerous times he beat his man, got into the lane and had 3 people waiting to take charges. Early on he drew fouls, but it quickly changed to where ref's I think anticipated the charge and called it. That had to be frustrating. In the NBA, there will be more space. Better athlete's for sure, but more space to create a shot and draw contact.

    All of that said, he did improve a lot this year, and if he returns, I think he can become a really good college player. He really needs to return, get stronger, and work on his game. But in terms of skill set, I do think he is more suited to the NBA style of play.

    I wish him well either way and he is a Dukie for life in my book whether he returns or chases his dream early.
    Agreed on all points.

    Though he wasn't the only one not getting the calls underneath for us...

    And funny you mention charges in the college game. I thought only Duke did that?

  11. #431
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    Apr 2008
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    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucknut View Post
    WSLS Sports reporter John Appicello just said Austin has decided to declare for the NBA draft. Not sure how 'concrete' that is, though.
    And yet we still have family members saying a decision hasn't been reached yet.

  12. #432
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    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I disagree. Austin Rivers is a MUCH better player than Lou Williams. He's also 4 inches taller, which makes a difference, especially on defense. Austin does pretty much everything better than Williams did when he first came into the League. This is also Lou Williams's 7th season. In 7 years, Austin will be WAY more accomplished than Lou Williams is now. Really, it's no contest.
    MUCH better?

    I don't think you can say that until you see Rivers in the NBA for a few years. I also don't think we can say he'll be Lou Williams or DWade right now... all speculation. I'm thinking in terms of how AR does one thing well - score. And doesn't do a lot of other things equally as well yet...

    I think anyone who can drop 15-20 ppg in the NBA is a pretty darn good player.

  13. #433
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    Jan 2010
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    District of Columbia
    Quote Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    The other thing that doesn't make sense is the NCAA's rules about when a player can withdraw and keep eligiblilty. This year they moved the deadline up a month from May 8 to April 10. Why would the NCAA do that? The NBA's own deadline to withdraw is June 18. How exactly is a kid (or coach) supposed to figure out where they stand in the eyes of 30 NBA teams, and in relation to other kids who may or may not come out, in just seven days after the end of the tournament? That's completely insane and yet another indictment of arbitrary NCAA bungling. It's like they're trying to force players to not only declare but forfeit eligibility at the same time, whether or not they're ready.
    What is going to have to happen is the NCAA and the NBA are going to have to sit down and figure this thing out. One and done is destroying the integrity of both student athletics and the programs they represent and too many unproven players that aren't ready are making the jump to the NBA in droves. It's a serious problem that needs to be addressed and the ball is in the NBA's court. The reason the NCAA moved it up IMO is because they want to assert the little bit of authority they have left. Hopefully something will get done about it, probably not until David Stern leaves his post unfortunately.

  14. #434
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingboozer View Post
    What is going to have to happen is the NCAA and the NBA are going to have to sit down and figure this thing out. One and done is destroying the integrity of both student athletics and the programs they represent and too many unproven players that aren't ready are making the jump to the NBA in droves. It's a serious problem that needs to be addressed and the ball is in the NBA's court. The reason the NCAA moved it up IMO is because they want to assert the little bit of authority they have left. Hopefully something will get done about it, probably not until David Stern leaves his post unfortunately.
    The problem is, what incentive does the NBA have to do anything about it?

  15. #435
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    Norfolk, VA
    SI has their article up and its got excerpts from Doc, himself, saying no decision has been reached and they will discuss it this weekend as a family, same deal as Kyrie last year when he went home for a weekend to get away from school and sort through all the details.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...2_a9&eref=sihp

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    And yet we still have family members saying a decision hasn't been reached yet.
    Now now, surely these bloggers know more about the situation than Austin's brother and dad! These guys have good sources!

  17. #437
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    Jan 2010
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    District of Columbia
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    The problem is, what incentive does the NBA have to do anything about it?
    Touche. To be honest I didn't think to add much about that in my post. It will take the NCAA to put serious pressure, possibly through lawmakers, to end this.

  18. #438
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    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kingboozer View Post
    Touche. To be honest I didn't think to add much about that in my post. It will take the NCAA to put serious pressure, possibly through lawmakers, to end this.
    Maybe they should strike a deal - create a playoff system in college football, stop screwing over players by not paying royalties after their careers are over or paying them at ALL, be more consistent in penalties, and then we can talk about protection from the NBA raiding their ranks.

  19. #439
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Now now, surely these bloggers know more about the situation than Austin's brother and dad! These guys have good sources!

    NESN was flashing it below the screen during the Boston/Philly game saying he was going to go pro, but can't remember how definite it was. Sounds that he at least must be leaning that way. I think he's still a year early; needs 10 more pounds of upper body strength and better passing skills. But, he'll get to play. Who knows how much.

  20. #440
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    The other thing that doesn't make sense is the NCAA's rules about when a player can withdraw and keep eligiblilty. This year they moved the deadline up a month from May 8 to April 10. Why would the NCAA do that? The NBA's own deadline to withdraw is June 18. How exactly is a kid (or coach) supposed to figure out where they stand in the eyes of 30 NBA teams, and in relation to other kids who may or may not come out, in just seven days after the end of the tournament? That's completely insane and yet another indictment of arbitrary NCAA bungling. It's like they're trying to force players to not only declare but forfeit eligibility at the same time, whether or not they're ready.
    I think the idea is to have the early entrants declared before the early signing period. That helps the players actually playing for schools in the NCAA and the coaches working for schools in the NCAA. Kids going pro? The NCAA isn't so concerned.

    -jk

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