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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    Curious as to the players over the years ...

    Who's gone early?

    Brand
    Avery
    Maggette
    Boozer
    Dunleavy
    Gerald
    Shav
    McRoberts

    Who could've gone early but opted not to?

    Grant
    Hurley/Laettner? Any discussion then?
    Johnny D?

    If one were categorizing ...

    - which guys jumped at the right time,
    - which should have perhaps stayed at Duke (in hindsight),
    - did any regret not jumping?

    Of course, the clearest case for going pro early was Duke's very first to leave early: Jay Heaps.
    All speculation because I don't have summer homes in any of those guys' heads, but just from a draft/ $ standpoint:

    - I think McRoberts and Singler probably made bad decisions in returning - McBob went from a lottery pick to 2nd round, and Singler went from late 1st to 2nd. One can argue, with the benefit of hindsight, that Jay Williams would've been wise to get two years of NBA ball under his belt before suffering a career-ending injury (though who knows if he would've been in the same place if he'd made different decisions).

    - Battier, Redick, and Shelden Williams all benefited greatly from returning - all dramatically improved draft prospects in their senior seasons. Nolan Smith did as well, though I'm not sure leaving after his jr. season was all that realistic an option.

    None of that factors in the intangible value of another year at college and such, but that's such an individual thing that I think it's just totally unfair to try and place oneself in another's shoes.

  2. #302
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Austin is certainly more pro-ready than Gerald Henderson was when he left. I would expect Austin to hit at least a big rotation role by his second season.
    I would have to disagree, I feel like Henderson was way more ready for the NBA. He had all around better stats and I thought he was a better finisher around the basket compared to Rivers. I feel like AR would greatly benefit from just one more year at Duke and would definitely be a lottery pick after next season.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    Interesting that the DBR chooses to use "Ahhhhh Seeya! Rivers Gone" as the front page lead. Interesting choice of words, considering the fan base uses it to taunt disqualified opponents. Are we due for a few days of "good riddance" Austin Rivers stories? If so, why?
    AR may go down as the most polarizing Duke player, among our own fanbase, in quite some time. Personally he is one of my favorite recent players and I wish him nothing but the best. There's no getting around the fact that a not-insignificant segment of our fanbase has not been as enamored of him, though, and as far as his popularity among his teammates - well, the board frowns on rumor-mongering.

    IMO all the players being best pals is overrated though. See Laettner, Christian.

  4. #304
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    AR may go down as the most polarizing Duke player, among our own fanbase, in quite some time. Personally he is one of my favorite recent players and I wish him nothing but the best. There's no getting around the fact that a not-insignificant segment of our fanbase has not been as enamored of him, though, and as far as his popularity among his teammates - well, the board frowns on rumor-mongering.

    IMO all the players being best pals is overrated though. See Laettner, Christian.
    I'd be ok with him having Laettner's personality if he was also as good as Laettner.

    But he's not...

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    I'd be ok with him having Laettner's personality if he was also as good as Laettner.

    But he's not...
    Laettner wasn't always as good as Laettner either. We just had the benefit of him being around for four years rather than one. It was a different time.

  6. #306
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Near Cameron & Wallace Wade Stadium
    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    Curious as to the players over the years ...

    Who's gone early?

    Brand
    Avery
    Maggette
    Boozer
    Dunleavy
    Gerald
    Shav
    McRoberts

    Who could've gone early but opted not to?

    Grant
    Hurley/Laettner? Any discussion then?
    Johnny D?

    If one were categorizing ...

    - which guys jumped at the right time,
    - which should have perhaps stayed at Duke (in hindsight),
    - did any regret not jumping?

    Of course, the clearest case for going pro early was Duke's very first to leave early: Jay Heaps.
    Shane Battier stayed 4 yrs and graduated and won a National Championship! NBA
    Jason Williams played 3 yrs and graduated from Duke and won a National Championship!
    Chris Duhon stayed 4 yrs and won a National Championship and graduated. NBA

  7. #307
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    the "Ahhhhh, SeeYa!" is in extremely poor taste, IMO.
    Failure is always an option.

  8. #308
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    It will be interesting to see if the overall pundit opinion emerges along these lines, because to not be worse off after losing your best player (understanding that, too, is subjective, but something that I believe) speaks to that player being a net negative or, at worst, a net neutral.
    I just shared a cup of Ozzie's optimism-flavored kool aid with him and it will be very interesting to see how the seniors (Ryan, Seth, Dre and Mason, if he stays) emerge/improve next year, in addition to the anticipated/continued improvement and growth of upper classmen, Josh and Tyler. I also like the fact we have a couple redshirt freshman on the roster and am looking forward to see how they will perform after a year already practicing/learning the system. Add a highly regarded prospect like RS and maybe one other recruit, we should have a pretty solid team.
    Not leaving until the game is over.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    All speculation because I don't have summer homes in any of those guys' heads, but just from a draft/ $ standpoint:

    - I think McRoberts and Singler probably made bad decisions in returning - McBob went from a lottery pick to 2nd round, and Singler went from late 1st to 2nd. One can argue, with the benefit of hindsight, that Jay Williams would've been wise to get two years of NBA ball under his belt before suffering a career-ending injury (though who knows if he would've been in the same place if he'd made different decisions).

    - Battier, Redick, and Shelden Williams all benefited greatly from returning - all dramatically improved draft prospects in their senior seasons. Nolan Smith did as well, though I'm not sure leaving after his jr. season was all that realistic an option.

    None of that factors in the intangible value of another year at college and such, but that's such an individual thing that I think it's just totally unfair to try and place oneself in another's shoes.
    Yeah, purely in terms of draft stock, Singler and McRoberts did themselves no favors by returning. Redick, Williams, Battier, Smith, Langdon and Carrawell did (though Langdon, Carrawell and Smith probably weren't getting drafted if they left early).

    Williams would have been #1 had he left in 2001 and was still #2 in 2002. So no harm, no foul. Deng, Dunleavy, Brand, and Magette all nailed it. Grant Hill could have left after his sophomore year and been a lottery pick, but chose to stay through his senior year. He ended up a top-3 pick and was "this" close to winning an immortalizing 3rd national championship. So I think he did okay for himself.

    It's hard to say with Avery. Would another year have allowed him to expand his game and move up, or expose some limitations and drop him? Would he even have been eligible (some have questioned this)?

    It's also hard to say with Randolph. Part of me feels like he'd have had a chance to flourish in a 3-man rotation with Williams and McRoberts, and may have won a National Championship with that team had he stayed. Maybe that would have boosted him in some eyes. Maybe not.

    Boozer probably should have gone as a sophomore when he'd have been a late 1st rounder in a weaker draft class. He didn't and ended up a 2nd rounder. Of course, then he made it anyway and hasn't had any financial concerns since. So it worked out for him.

  10. #310
    ESPN now has a story on Rivers.
    In the brief article, it states:

    The Blue Devils' staff knew in the latter part of the season that Rivers was going to leave, multiple sources with direct knowledge at Duke told ESPN.com.
    Wow.

  11. #311
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    I just shared a cup of Ozzie's optimism-flavored kool aid with him and it will be very interesting to see how the seniors (Ryan, Seth, Dre and Mason, if he stays) emerge/improve next year, in addition to the anticipated/continued improvement and growth of upper classmen, Josh and Tyler. I also like the fact we have a couple redshirt freshman on the roster and am looking forward to see how they will perform after a year already practicing/learning the system. Add a highly regarded prospect like RS and maybe one other recruit, we should have a pretty solid team.
    I'm looking forward to a more flexible roster next year and better defense. I wish Austin and Mason would stay, but even if they go we'll be good.

    Austin's possible departure does make me understand why Duke is looking at Trey Ziegler again. In this day and age, with players going pro so quickly and being more likely to transfer, you've got to have a deep roster.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGirl4ever View Post
    ESPN now has a story on Rivers.
    In the brief article, it states:



    Wow.
    Wow, indeed. That certainly explains the lack of concern about recruiting Muhammad and Jefferson and Parker. Especially if the team also has an idea about another potential draft entry...

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGirl4ever View Post
    ESPN now has a story on Rivers.
    In the brief article. Wow.
    Link http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/sto...ft-sources-say

  14. #314
    I suspect Rivers (both Austin and Doc) were pretty candid with K about their intentions from day one, just as Kyrie and his dad were. This really should not be a surprise to anyone.

  15. #315
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Laettner wasn't always as good as Laettner either. We just had the benefit of him being around for four years rather than one. It was a different time.
    Yea, better times, really.

    The difference between Rivers and Laettner is that Laettner didn't have to be "the guy" when he was a freshman. He had to work his way into it.

    Rivers had to work his way into it, but only after a few games when it became apparent that Mason couldn't be "the guy" because no one was going to pass him the ball, and none of the guards were capable enough to lead the team the way Rivers could.

    That said, I think Rivers leaving bodes well for Mason staying. I really don't think they got along too well.

  16. #316
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    I suspect Rivers (both Austin and Doc) were pretty candid with K about their intentions from day one, just as Kyrie and his dad were. This really should not be a surprise to anyone.
    I suspect they knew when they recruited him.

    I'm ok with one and dones as long as they don't poison team chemistry.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Yea, better times, really.

    The difference between Rivers and Laettner is that Laettner didn't have to be "the guy" when he was a freshman. He had to work his way into it.

    Rivers had to work his way into it, but only after a few games when it became apparent that Mason couldn't be "the guy" because no one was going to pass him the ball, and none of the guards were capable enough to lead the team the way Rivers could.

    That said, I think Rivers leaving bodes well for Mason staying. I really don't think they got along too well.
    I hope so. I have always felt that Mason was a more important return than Rivers. I think he could be an absolute stud next year. And I think he'd benefit in terms of draft stock by coming back. I don't think he'll hurt his stock (his floor is "Jeff Foster", which will get him drafted in the late first round regardless), and he could really help himself by showing more development of his post skills.

    I'm not that optimistic about his returning, but I'd love it if he did.

  18. #318
    Um, they're saying on the radio that we lost Mason yesterday. Is that true, or are these guys smoking something? Admittedly, I'm in Terp country, so this might just be wishful thinking on their part, but, huh? Has anybody else heard this?
    LET'S GO DUKE!

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    Um, they're saying on the radio that we lost Mason yesterday. Is that true, or are these guys smoking something? Admittedly, I'm in Terp country, so this might just be wishful thinking on their part, but, huh? Has anybody else heard this?
    I think that may have to do with the JWill tweet, but nothing definitive on Mason's part yet.

  20. #320
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    It will be interesting to see if the overall pundit opinion emerges along these lines, because to not be worse off after losing your best player (understanding that, too, is subjective, but something that I believe) speaks to that player being a net negative or, at worst, a net neutral.
    Being a talented player will equal points for sure, and he put up plenty. But he's not a team player. I'm sure plenty of people disagree with that statement, and others will say he's improved in that department. The fact is, if your best player isn't a great fit for your team, then that player still can be a liablility, so I don't disagree with the pundits.
    Mmmm, BBQ!

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