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  1. #481
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Triad, NC
    I get the impression that Austin told someone that he was going to go based on who knows what. This may have been said before he has sat down with the family to discuss things. I can't imagine that he hasn't discussed this with Doc before now, but may not as they've both been busy. I can't see Doc recommending he go pro unless he thinks Austin will fall to the Celtics, although I've been under the impression Doc was about to retire so that may not even be a factor.
    He is bound to develop more with another year at Duke as compared to being in the NBA riding the pine. He will get better coaching (K), just as good of facilities but instead of being the least important guy there, he would be the focus at Duke and receive a lot more instruction/attention/playtime. No way 1 year from now he is a better player in the NBA than after another year developing under K, then making the jump.
    That said, I find it incredibly unlikely we would be courting Trey Ziegler (6'5" guard) if Austin was telling K he was staying.
    Thank you for your time Austin.
    I do think Mason has a tougher decision with his draft status being quite a bit lower. I can see him really blooming next year with a healthy Cook getting him the ball and playing alongside a legit center in his bro MP3. Seems like a good situation to come back to.

    Duke will be great either way with a senior group of winners majorly focused after an embarrassing exit.
    JMHO

  2. #482
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sewanee, Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Aus-tin Rivers.
    That Austin Rivers.
    He don't say nothin'
    But he must know somethin'
    Cause he just keeps rollin'
    He keeps rollin' along.
    Thanks for the laugh out loud!

  3. #483
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by HateCarolina View Post
    I popped on here to get some more background on the note in the front page that CBS may have jumped the gun and all I see is bickering and people jumping down others throats seemingly unjustly. I've been pissed for about a week about our loss, but I thought I could come on here and read sane comments from other fans. Are we now turning on each other??
    Sadly, you are correct.
    However, to be completely fair, we do this after every loss, every injury, every season that doesn't end with a trophy and with every missed recruit. So if you are a fan of consistency in your urine and vinegar, welcome home.

  4. #484

    totally depressing

    kyrie. austin. we are living in a new world...and unfortunately we are getting the 1 and dones that although great hoops players are not making their 1 worthwhile to the duke program in terms of championships! nothing against both players but the goal is national championships every year at duke. period. that has to be the goal and both these guys didn't take their teams as far as the jon scheyers and kyle singlers before them. that being said, i'm a firm believer that in order to be successful nowadays you either need to get the best player who may be one and done but is a highly probably lock to take your team far into the tournament...ie, the anthony davis's and shabazz muhammad of the world...or you should go after a slew of really good but not the cream of the crop recruits. duke needs to start recruiting in bulk. we have more success recruiting top players in bulk and expecting some attrition. now we have a class that was so heavily loaded to austin at the top that we have so much unproven commodities that we have to lean on for the next four years. i'm staring at a highly competitive acc over the next few years where duke won't the top dog. a brave new world we live in everyone! start your prayers that shabazz, amile, and tony all join us because we are desperate for talent.

  5. #485
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    Sadly, you are correct.
    However, to be completely fair, we do this after every loss, every injury, every season that doesn't end with a trophy and with every missed recruit. So if you are a fan of consistency in your urine and vinegar, welcome home.
    Haha...yes thank you for the warm welcome. I have been quite chippy all week with my Tar Heel colleagues. I went further back and noted others saying they have enjoyed having Austin at Duke this past year. I agree 100%. Selfishly I would love to have him another year, but I for one think he will succeed at the next level within a few years. Another poster made the JJ comparison and noted that Austin has better athleticism and I really hope he matures physically and becomes a dominant player in the NBA. Thank you Austin for the memories...especially the dagger 3 in chapel hell.

  6. #486

    kyrie vs austin

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke76 View Post
    Funny how duke supporters can disagree about Rivers,,,,I too watched every game and saw it pretty much opposite of what you and other rivers supporters saw. In my opinion he rarely played the top of the key pick and roll properly....he simply drove to the basket never looking for the big man or the wing man who were open many times....he just drove the lane making 50 % of his layups with his right hand regardless of the side of the basket he was on...the other 50% of the time he was fouled where he hit about 65% of his foul shots or was blocked or turned the ball over. Fundamentally he has a lot to learn, IMO if he wants a steady starting job in the nba.

    He is not in the same space as Kyrie who could do all of the above significantly better and was ready for the nba. He would have been better off staying at Duke under the guidance of coach K learning the "fist" concept and all that it entails, IMO.


    totally agreed on this. kyrie was light years ahead of austin in terms of overall game. not even close. the stats don't lie. kyrie was a lock to beat his man and create a basket with a much higher percentage than austin can. he was a better 3 point shooter and free throw shooter and ball handling was in another world. kyrie was an obvious one and done. austin is particularly upsetting because he isn't a dominant basketball player yet. i can't believe a man of doc's intelligence would allow his son to be swayed by money he doesn't even need and passing on the chance to actually win something in college. really, really surprising given the level of basketball intelligence in the family. this decision shows a lack of basketball IQ in my opinion. willing to be proven wrong of course.

  7. #487
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2001 View Post
    i'm a firm believer that in order to be successful nowadays you either need to get the best player who may be one and done but is a highly probably lock to take your team far into the tournament...ie, the anthony davis's and shabazz muhammad of the world...
    There is no such thing as a "highly probabl[e] lock to take your team far into the tournament" in college basketball. No such thing. Kyrie and Austin were both rated the #2 prospect in their class. How much more of a "lock" could there be? It's true Davis and Shabazz were/are rated #1 in their class, but even #1 isn't a lock (witness Derrick Favors in 2009, OJ Mayo in 2007, and Josh McRoberts in 2005).

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2001 View Post
    start your prayers that shabazz, amile, and tony all join us because we are desperate for talent.
    If Austin and Mason both leave and we get nobody else, we'll have 7 guys who were in the top 30 in their high school class (including Alex and Andre who were both top 15 before they re-classified), plus a third-team All-ACC player plus an athletic 7-footer. Under your definition, who won't be desperate for talent?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2001 View Post
    nothing against both players but the goal is national championships every year at duke. period.
    Just because something is a goal doesn't mean you're a failure if you don't reach it. If you evaluate Kyrie and Austin solely based on how many NCAA national championships they won, there are a whole lot of players who failed over the course of time.

  8. #488
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    well i sure hope austin isn't on the fence and decides to visit here from some confirmation that he is loved and wanted....


    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  9. #489
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2001 View Post
    kyrie. austin. we are living in a new world...and unfortunately we are getting the 1 and dones that although great hoops players are not making their 1 worthwhile to the duke program in terms of championships! nothing against both players but the goal is national championships every year at duke.
    It IS a bold new day. But this is not unique to Duke. You wanna change this - then deflate the $ out of sports. Quit paying for tix, PPV, jerseys, video games, fantasy leagues, shoes.. drop it all cold turkey. I'm kinda OK with that. I'd prolly follow it anyway even if the players were lesser, cuz everyone would have roughly equivalent lesser players.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2001 View Post
    that has to be the goal and both these guys didn't take their teams as far as the jon scheyers and kyle singlers before them. that being said, i'm a firm believer that in order to be successful nowadays you either need to get the best player who may be one and done but is a highly probably lock to take your team far into the tournament...ie, the anthony davis's and shabazz muhammad of the world...or you should go after a slew of really good but not the cream of the crop recruits. duke needs to start recruiting in bulk.
    Duke has tendency to recruit the "technician" of a BBall player; as opposed to a raw athlete that happens to play basketball. I wouldn't mind seeing a mix personally.. I think an over reliance on one or the other style leads to trouble. If folks wanna bad mouth GH, KI, AR and MP for making a decision fine. But, I wont do it.

    In this "new dawn" their success and our reaction to their departures are gonna be a factor in the recruits we DO land. Why do they wanna go to a place that's going to bad-mouth them. While we may live and die for the glory of Duke for a lot of dudes, its just a means to an ends.... no more, no less.

    Now for the recruits we DO get...
    We gotta get the ones we are supposed to get.. Like Barnes. How much different would our team THIS year have been with him? Folks gripe about HB and rightfully so to a certain extent... but don't forget, he's the one who turned KI on to Duke to begin with. Bazz seems to fit that mold. We've been missing on guys we normally wouldn't. I can see a correlation going back to the lacrosse scandal on this. Our recruiting has been inconsistent since this incident happened.


    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2001 View Post
    Now we have a class that was so heavily loaded to austin at the top that we have so much unproven commodities that we have to lean on for the next four years. i'm staring at a highly competitive acc over the next few years where duke won't the top dog. a brave new world we live in everyone! start your prayers that shabazz, amile, and tony all join us because we are desperate for talent.
    While I would like to agree that we need more bigger, recruiting... that's an evergreen strawman. Its a tad of an unfair view unless you've been watching the practices and player development.

  10. #490
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco

    Austin

    Maybe Austin doesn't enjoy being in school. Maybe he wants his own $$. Maybe he doesn't like his teammates. Maybe he doesn't like being in Durham.

    If it weren't for the NBA rule (age 19 - one year out of HS ?), he might already have been in the NBA this year. Maybe he doesn't want to wait any longer.

    It doesn't matter what any of us think about this. If he wants to go, he's gone.

  11. #491
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    Like Barnes. How much different would our team THIS year have been with him?
    Another good jump shooter who can't get himself open and doesn't play a whole lot of defense? Doesn't seem to me our team would have been all that different. But I guess you never know.

  12. #492
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Another good jump shooter who can't get himself open and doesn't play a whole lot of defense? Doesn't seem to me our team would have been all that different. But I guess you never know.
    That's just Roys' coaching...
    How great wings had he developed?

  13. #493
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Florida

    The Shot (2012)

    Hey, Austin brought us one of the truly great moments in Duke basketball; to me, the season was a success purely for the joy of that shot. Stay or go, I thank him for that. I'd love to see him do it again in the Final Four next year, but I wouldn't begrudge him moving on if that's what's best for him.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    There is no such thing as a "highly probabl[e] lock to take your team far into the tournament" in college basketball. No such thing. Kyrie and Austin were both rated the #2 prospect in their class. How much more of a "lock" could there be? It's true Davis and Shabazz were/are rated #1 in their class, but even #1 isn't a lock (witness Derrick Favors in 2009, OJ Mayo in 2007, and Josh McRoberts in 2005).

    If Austin and Mason both leave and we get nobody else, we'll have 7 guys who were in the top 30 in their high school class (including Alex and Andre who were both top 15 before they re-classified), plus a third-team All-ACC player plus an athletic 7-footer. Under your definition, who won't be desperate for talent?
    As far as the #1s go, McRoberts was about the biggest bust there's ever been. We should have easily won the national championship that year with Redick and Shelden if McRoberts had stepped up but he didn't. I really don't see Shabazz being a bust at all.

    And after watching Andrew Dawkins this year, I wouldn't classify him as one of our talented players. He showed flashes of greatness in three games (MSU, Wake and FSU) but I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a Duke player than I was/am with Dawkins (except for McRoberts).

    We're gonna be in trouble if Austin and Mason both leave and we don't land Shabazz, TP or Amile. We'll still be good, but I'm not sure we'll have a better year than we did this year.

  15. #495
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Do you think he would grow more on Duke next year or more on an NBA team? Please explain.

    I assume he can grow more in the NBA - longer season, more practices, more games, better competition, more offense-friendly rules, NBA veterans to whip the young'uns into shape and adjust their attitudes and games.

    That's no knock on Coach K, it's just the reality of the limits of college vs. the competition and increased hours of basketball in the NBA.

    At Duke, I said that....he has some fundamental flaws that he needs to work..

    1. Do you think he is going to get his drives to the basket on the left side shooting with his right hand blocked more or less?

    2. Do you think he is quicker or as strong compared to most guards in the Nba or less so than the guys he went against this yr.?

    3. Is he going to be a point guard or a shooting guard in the Nba? If point guard did he show the passing ability of any other point guards you know of in the nba? If a shooting guard did you see him consistently hit the three from nba range? Did you ever see him shoot a mid-range jumper consistently, did you ever see him come off a pick and shoot jumpers without dribbling?

    I could keep going but the point is you think he is going to improve more in the MBA riding the pine where players are out for themselves and the travel schedule is brutal as opposed to Duke.

    Let me ask you this too, do you think he is better than Nolan Smith cause he is riding the pine

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    WHY would the media need to be considered in a decision to play PRO basketball? The media is seeking him out. He has no need to "play" with their emotions. They will get the scoop WHEN they get it. Everyone knows the deadlines but if you're trying to be the first to get a "scoop" then I doubt he's concerned and he's definitely not factoring it into his decision.
    Why would any athlete want to play with the media? To keep their name relevant when they aren't playing. TO had his offseason stuff, Lebron had his and they all do it. If you keep your name in the papers by messing with them, you get more recognition by EVERYONE. It is the same reason recruits that wait to keep their names mentioned for longer often end up being higher rated than better players that commit early.

  17. #497

    duke's goal = win championships

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    There is no such thing as a "highly probabl[e] lock to take your team far into the tournament" in college basketball. No such thing. Kyrie and Austin were both rated the #2 prospect in their class. How much more of a "lock" could there be? It's true Davis and Shabazz were/are rated #1 in their class, but even #1 isn't a lock (witness Derrick Favors in 2009, OJ Mayo in 2007, and Josh McRoberts in 2005).
    Lock is bad word. Sorry. But the probability assessment we have made on who those "high probability guys" are has been off. Rivers is not that guy. Davis is. Rivers was predicted to be that guy. Didn't work out.



    If Austin and Mason both leave and we get nobody else, we'll have 7 guys who were in the top 30 in their high school class (including Alex and Andre who were both top 15 before they re-classified), plus a third-team All-ACC player plus an athletic 7-footer. Under your definition, who won't be desperate for talent?

    sorry you're right. conflated talent with athleticism. i want athletes! the powerful, quick, and leaping types that can dominate a game with raw ability. we don't have that, haven't recruited that. NC state, UNC, and a host of others in the ACC have that. Florida State. they are not desperate for that. we are and it seems to be working for those teams.



    Just because something is a goal doesn't mean you're a failure if you don't reach it. If you evaluate Kyrie and Austin solely based on how many NCAA national championships they won, there are a whole lot of players who failed over the course of time.
    This is the key thing. Duke has a lofty goal. To win it all, every year. That's how I see it and to answer your question...yes, most fail. The best are the ones who admit they failed to achieve the goal, address the issues that came in the way, diagnose why they came in the way of your goal, and then ultimately go out and put the design and people in place to achieve the goal. it's rapid evolution and the faster teams can do that the faster they evolve and move toward the goal of winning championships. everyone fails, so it's not like it makes you a bad person or player. it just means you didn't achieve your goal. and anyone who thinks we achieved duke's goal for the season this year i will beg to differ and argue against that until the end.

  18. #498

    NBA Improvements

    I've said it before, there is absolutely not way a player can develop better in college than he can in the NBA.

    They play basketball all day everyday for a living. They're allowed to play and be coached year-round. It is in the absolute best interest of their teams to develop these kids despite players, "being out for themselves." GM's, owners, and coaches don't want their first round pick to be a bust. They want them to develop in the way that is best for their team, and in the NBA that's becoming the best offensive player possible, including passing and shooting. You think Austin is going to get better playing against Tyler Thornton or Rajon Rondo. Rondo, all day every day. When you play with better people you get better as long as the gap isn't so great that you can't work on things. With first round picks, that's not the case. If kids work hard--- Austin, they're going to get better.

    The Nolan comparison is a little silly too. Even though he's sitting on the bench, I guarantee you that if you asked any Duke player who was on the team with him, when he comes back to work out, they'll tell you how much better he is now. As good as coach K is, its not his sole focus to develop players to be the best they can be individually on the court, its his goal to make the best college basketball TEAM. That's why he's the Olympic coach and that's why he's the best all time in college hoops. The NBA develops players individual talents to make them put the best product possible on the court. Austin is ready to make that jump to compete in practices and probably get some time if for no other reason than who he is.


    Also, this whole finishing with the right hand is ridiculous. Austin can finish with his left hand. In college, it's what big men expect, a right handed lay-up driving left is a "shifty" move.

    If Austin leaves, I think it helps us with recruiting Shabazz and Tony because he is kind of a ball stopper who is a volume shooter and has a lot of work to do on his passing (in games this year he was almost as excited when he made a good pass as he did when he scored, which means he's willing to learn). Would I like Austin to stay, yes. Do I see the possible silver lining if he goes, also yes, and do I think that its the best thing for him to leave, I don't know, but I'm sure that K, Austin, and Doc do. I support whatever decision he makes with the hopes that its for the best for him as a player and person and also with the hope that it helps our program, because I really do believe that Bazz at least is not going to take Austin's decision lightly in his college choice.

  19. #499
    [QUOTE=nolan8or;565169]As far as the #1s go, McRoberts was about the biggest bust there's ever been. We should have easily won the national championship that year with Redick and Shelden if McRoberts had stepped up but he didn't. I really don't see Shabazz being a bust at all.

    And after watching Andrew Dawkins this year, I wouldn't classify him as one of our talented players. He showed flashes of greatness in three games (MSU, Wake and FSU) but I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a Duke player than I was/am with Dawkins (except for McRoberts).

    We're gonna be in trouble if Austin and Mason both leave and we don't land Shabazz, TP or Amile. We'll still be good, but I'm not sure we'll have a better year than we did this year.[/QUOTE]

    It's possible for next year to have a similar type year in terms of record as this year but feel like a better year...and if murphy and mike G have good seasons then the team could look vastly different too.

  20. #500
    "As far as the #1s go, McRoberts was about the biggest bust there's ever been. We should have easily won the national championship that year with Redick and Shelden if McRoberts had stepped up but he didn't."

    funny, what I remember about the loss to LSU is McBobs playing pretty well in his role on that team and JJ getting beat up by LSU defenders, getting no calls and missing a lot of shots.

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