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  1. #261
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Honestly I think Xavier would have beaten Duke, too.

    I think that Duke's road as a 2 seed was a nightmare. Lehigh was better than a 15 and Xavier is capable of being as good as a 3.
    I agree. And Xavier was ranked 14th and 15th in the preseason polls (to Duke's 6th). They dropped precipitously when they lost a string of games after the Cincinnati brawl. Recently they have been getting back on track a bit. So it's an awfully good team for a 10 seed, and it wouldn't really be a great shame to lose to them. I thought Lehigh was tremendously game to keep it close as long as they did.

  2. #262
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    I feel the same way and have said as much in this thread. It was very apparent in the demeanor of several of our players, and I have my own suspicions about the source(s) of the tension.

    Who saw the end of the Kansas game last night? That's a team that looks like the players would run through walls for each other and has an incredible will to win.
    I was thinking the same thing watching the Kansas game.

    The crispness of the passes... the ball movement and unselfishness, even with Thomas Robinson trying to do it all on his own at times... and just the sheer will.

    If Duke could have had perimeter ball movement like that this year... and fed the post like KU did.... it would have been a much better year.

  3. #263

    Box score tells the story

    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Duke did prepare- they just did not execute. Can't win if you can't hit shots.

    As the writer of this post http://bloguin.com/runthefloor/2012-...5-duke-70.html notes, in addition to cold shooting, there are a few other key reasons why we lost what otherwise should have been a winnable game (even without Ryan Kelly):

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Of course I'd like to remind you that they've already lost two players to season ending injuries.

    Granted they were early on and therefore the heels had more time to regroup, but still they've managed to get the job done.

    As for the Marshall injury, I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare his value to the heels and Ryan's value to ours. Marshall should have been 1st team ACC and since he took over as their PG last year they've improved drastically.

    For whatever reason we failed to get the ball to Josh, Mason, and Miles on the pick and rolls. While Knundson was a solid counter to one of our bigs we clearly had a size advantage we failed to properly exploit.
    Yes I know they lost two players but the fact that they were early on makes it difficult to compare the two situations. UNC has had most of the season to get used to playing without Strickland and McDonald while Duke had 11 days.

    It's not a perfect analogy (because Marshall is a better player than Kelly) but both players have more value than I think most people realize because they are the only person on their team with their skill set. Marshall's value to UNC is vastly increased by the fact that they really don't have a backup point guard. In the same way Duke does not have another big man who can stretch the floor.

    If Carolina has to play without Marshall it means less easy baskets for Henson and Zeller and less fast break opportunities for everybody. Duke playing without Ryan Kelly meant less open 3's and less room for Austin and Seth to drive. I would not be surprised at all if UNC loses without Marshall and I wouldn't say it's because the rest of the guys failed to step up.

  5. #265
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    Yes I know they lost two players but the fact that they were early on makes it difficult to compare the two situations. UNC has had most of the season to get used to playing without Strickland and McDonald while Duke had 11 days.

    It's not a perfect analogy (because Marshall is a better player than Kelly) but both players have more value than I think most people realize because they are the only person on their team with their skill set. Marshall's value to UNC is vastly increased by the fact that they really don't have a backup point guard. In the same way Duke does not have another big man who can stretch the floor.

    If Carolina has to play without Marshall it means less easy baskets for Henson and Zeller and less fast break opportunities for everybody. Duke playing without Ryan Kelly meant less open 3's and less room for Austin and Seth to drive. I would not be surprised at all if UNC loses without Marshall and I wouldn't say it's because the rest of the guys failed to step up.
    I think many will be surprised with the quality of play from Stillman White when he gets more minutes. And I think you will see a much more aggressive attack from him pushing the ball than expected.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I think many will be surprised with the quality of play from Stillman White when he gets more minutes. And I think you will see a much more aggressive attack from him pushing the ball than expected.
    Yeah. I expect him to be a regular Brian Bersticker.

  7. #267
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by loran16 View Post
    McCollum is 5-18 right now against Xavier. Many open shots too. Guess its hard to channel your best game against Xavier, but its easy against Duke. Sigh.
    Well, Xavier's defense is better than Duke's.

    Thank god we didn't get that 1 seed!

  8. #268
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I think many will be surprised with the quality of play from Stillman White when he gets more minutes. And I think you will see a much more aggressive attack from him pushing the ball than expected.
    Personally I hope kendall is able to play and he plays well. I hate to see a kid get injured and miss time played. Regardless of who he plays for. My life doesn't revolve around what carolina does or does not do. Get well kendall. GoDuke!

  9. #269
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    I thought McCollum did as well as anyone at keeping Austin out of the lane. This was one of the few games that I didn't think Rivers got by his man one-on-one whenever he wanted. I thought Lehigh also followed the plan that VT and FSU used, which was to double team the ball-handler off the high pick and roll from the wing. Without Ryan to make defenses pay for that gamble, and without looking to get the ball to the cutting big to the hoop, or moving the ball to the open person, Duke struggled against that defensive adjustment.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  10. #270
    I've started to recover from this loss, finally, but it's going to take some time. I'm not venting, but this was a very hard one to live through. That's two crushing losses in early rounds in a row and other than the blip in '10 (not that I'd discount a championship - that team more than earned and deserved it), we're in a bad rut in the big tournament these days. That's one time past the Sweet 16 in the last 8 years, and only twice since Shane Battier graduated 11 years ago. I'm not one to poo-poo making the Sweet 16 a dozen times in 15 years, but it's difficult to adjust to not being a consistent factor when it matters right now. All good things come to an end, there's no reasonable expectation that our outrageous level of success from '88 through '01 could continue forever, and we're still one of the best programs out there coached by the best coach in the game. It's a lot to be proud of, but it's still hard to come down from the mountaintop. And to top it all off, we now have our own Weber St. One of the worst things about this loss is that we can no longer enjoy Harold Arceneaux taunts.

    Anyway, as others have mentioned, the China trip may have turned out to be a bit of a curse from a fan expectation perspective this year. We were more cohesive in November than our opponents, and it was easy to overlook the headstart we had as the primary reason. And, as a result, we won games we probably shouldn't have, which again made it easy to overlook the obvious flaws. In retrospect, as much as I enjoyed the Kansas game, we were pretty lucky to win it. Obviously, we had no business winning in Chapel Hill, as the Heels made perfectly clear to us a month later. The entire season was a little bit analogous to the Tebow phenomenon in the NFL last season - despite the glaring flaws, he was getting some lucky breaks, and making huge plays at critical moments, and winning games. Eventually people started to re-evaluate their positions on the actual talent, believing their lying eyes, until the Patriots came along and blew up the facade. In our case, unfortunately, it was the Patriot League, not the Patriots. And while Peyton Manning was on campus last week, he's not going to be joining the Blue Devils next season.

    Places we could improve:

    - perimeter offensive players knowing, settling into and accepting roles and a rotation. IMHO, we'd benefit from a true point who could get the offense in a position to allow Rivers to do his thing from the wing instead of from up top, and not have to concentrate on setting up the offense
    - finding someone who can (and looks to) drive to create easy buckets for the bigs - see previous item
    - getting/developing someone who can stop opposing point guards
    - team defense and rotation
    - free throw shooting
    - guards who look to find the angles for entry passes while dribbling, instead of looking for ways to get to the basket

    I guess my hope is that Austin stays and Quinn develops into the sort of PG who can make a few shots but distribute better, leaving Seth and Andre to split time. Instead of what this season's version of a 3-guard lineup became - extremely reliant on 3-point shooting, but not extraordinarily good at it. We shot an awful lot of treys this year for a team with one guy (a 7-footer, at that) above a 40% hit rate.

    Things to be proud of from the season:

    - lost Kyrie Irving but almost won ACC Regular Season
    - Maui champs
    - monumental, epic, add another great chapter to the rivalry, win in Chapel Hill
    - K reaching all-time wins leader status
    - graduating Miles - congrats to him on a good four years, and best of luck
    - being Duke, being classy, working hard

  11. #271
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    I've started to recover from this loss, finally, but it's going to take some time. I'm not venting, but this was a very hard one to live through. That's two crushing losses in early rounds in a row and other than the blip in '10 (not that I'd discount a championship - that team more than earned and deserved it), we're in a bad rut in the big tournament these days. That's one time past the Sweet 16 in the last 8 years, and only twice since Shane Battier graduated 11 years ago.
    The thing is (I actually agree with your points, I just want to say this here), in the whole of Division 1 basketball, only eight teams make it past the Sweet Sixteen. Eight! Out of 345. Those aren't good odds. And, I know, I know -- obviously we expect more from Duke. And yes, I do think that we've had a run of bad luck, and some of those years could have ended better, sure.

    But when I look around the neighborhood, it looks to me like we still have the biggest house on the block. There just aren't any teams out there I'd want to switch places with. In regards to tournament success, or otherwise. So I guess I just have a hard time seeing what all the whining is about. There are so many people that seem to think there is something "wrong" with the program, and I just don't understand where it comes from.

    Or, to be more accurate, if it comes from where I think it comes from, then I think it's kinda dumb. But that's best saved for a mid-summer discussion, when we're really starving for talking points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    lost Kyrie Irving but almost won ACC Regular Season
    I'll also add, just for the sake of inclusion, that we lost a lot more from last year than just Kyrie. Adapting to the loss of Nolan and Kyle as well just makes it all the more impressive.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    The thing is (I actually agree with your points, I just want to say this here), in the whole of Division 1 basketball, only eight teams make it past the Sweet Sixteen. Eight! Out of 345. Those aren't good odds. And, I know, I know -- obviously we expect more from Duke. And yes, I do think that we've had a run of bad luck, and some of those years could have ended better, sure.
    Fair enough, although for self-inflicted pain, I looked back at the last 7 years, and have found 14 teams that have managed to get into that exclusive group more than once. Going back another year to include '04 doesn't really change the overall picture. I wouldn't trade our title two seasons ago for Louisville or Memphis or Michigan State's three times in the final 8 without a championship. But statistically speaking, it's pretty fortunate that we cashed in the one legitimate shot we gave ourselves over that span (not as fortunate as the way UCon's won it all every time they reached the Final Four, though!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    But when I look around the neighborhood, it looks to me like we still have the biggest house on the block[/URL]. There just aren't any teams out there I'd want to switch places with. In regards to tournament success, or otherwise. So I guess I just have a hard time seeing what all the whining is about. There are so many people that seem to think there is something "wrong" with the program, and I just don't understand where it comes from.
    Good analogy. I'm not whining, nor do I think there's something wrong with the program. I'm just struggling with the real world implications of regressing toward the mean. But your analogy could perhaps be expanded. We still have the biggest house in the neighborhood, yes, but the roof probably needs some repairs, the hot tub and that in-home movie theater thingie we thought were cool when we built the place are now passe, and since we first moved in there's been an influx of new construction into the neighborhood. Not as big as our place, but quite a bit bigger than their owners used to have. We're just a teeny bit jealous of their outdoor kitchens and on occasion have a hard time remembering to appreciate our own mansion instead of looking across the street.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    I'll also add, just for the sake of inclusion, that we lost a lot more from last year than just Kyrie. Adapting to the loss of Nolan and Kyle as well just makes it all the more impressive.
    Excellent point. I was thinking in terms of unexpected (from the perspective of a wishful thinker?) losses, rather than graduation, and thinking of what a difference having Kyrie would have made to our offensive flow. But you're certainly right that replacing two all-conference or better National Champ leaders is awfully hard to do in this era.

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