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  1. #141
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    Dec 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    I got it but didn't want to waste the energy correcting everyone. It was much funnier to see people overreact.
    It wasn't hard to grasp at all. I actually tried helping with my post... smh I doubt it actually helped

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Wow - I am seriously beginning to doubt the inability of posters to gauge sarcasm. Thought the smiley with his tongue out said it all. I completely agree that an 18 year old cannot be the physical specimen of a mature 26-28 year old. Agreeing with the majority of you, people.
    Ahhhh, ok. I'm old and I don't relate to the little cartoonish things . . . . emoticons? . . . so I pay no attention to them.

    Otherwise, written sarcasm doesn't always translate well. I just assumed you were an idiot. Sorry. Allow me to assume the mantle awhile.

  3. #143
    I have to say that I haven't seen a whole lot on Amile, but he seems to be a pretty adept offensive player, but his defense looks to be more developed than you would think. A friend of mine who is a State alum was talking about him with me and stated that the State people have described him as a "glue stick".

    I think he could possibly get the nod for combo forward minutes. From the limited amount I have seen/heard, he is pretty athletic, has fast feet, is very disruptive and could make our defense translate into offense because of these things. I like his chances to get playing time because defense against driving players has been a weak point and he may be able to stop that a little better than our other interior players. If he can do defensive work even remotely close to Lance, I would say he should get the majority of the minutes at the 4.

    I know Ryan is a very good player, but he is an odd case of big enough to almost have to put him inside on defense, but his skills/preferences seem to leave him outside a lot. He is so skilled in guard-like play, but he is not athletic enough do it (play on the outside) on defense or physical enough to intimidate skilled bigger players inside. Our identity next year will likely not include overpowering people with offense, but being disruptive, causing turnovers and running could make up for any deficiencies that we have on offense. For that, this would be a great pickup and a very fun team to watch (We would have a lot of guys who are athletic enough to cover ground quickly and can cause chaos for offenses trying to move the ball around or penetrate).

  4. #144
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    Aug 2007
    He sounds like what Ryan would be if he were more athletic (quicker, more ups, ability to slash and get by your man, etc). Probably not the screener, passer, or shooter Ryan is at this point, but we probably don't need him to be with the rest of our cast and Jones on the horizon. Ryan's passing is important because we dont have a stellar point guard. Hard to believe a Coach K, Wojo Duke squad without one of the best point guards in the ACC.
    Last edited by Devilsfan; 04-14-2012 at 04:12 AM.

  5. #145
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    Jan 2009
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    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    He sounds like what Ryan would be if he were more athletic (quicker, more ups, ability to slash and get by your man, etc). Probably not the screener, passer, or shooter Ryan is at this point, but we probably don't need him to be with the rest of our cast and Jones on the horizon. Ryan's passing is important because we dont have a stellar point guard. Hard to believe a Coach K, Wojo Duke squad without one of the best point guards in the ACC.

    That's not fair to Tyler or Quinn. We had one of the best when we had Kyrie and Nolan. Tyler was not one of the most coveted PG's out of high school, but give him some time. Quinn was a top 10 PG in the country and highly coveted, but he was a freshman who has dealt with some lingering knee issues. I would not be surprised at all to see both of these guys take big steps forward next year.

  6. #146
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    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoCrazy84 View Post
    That's not fair to Tyler or Quinn. We had one of the best when we had Kyrie and Nolan. Tyler was not one of the most coveted PG's out of high school, but give him some time. Quinn was a top 10 PG in the country and highly coveted, but he was a freshman who has dealt with some lingering knee issues. I would not be surprised at all to see both of these guys take big steps forward next year.
    We will have a stellar PG next year, and his name will be Quinn Cook. I firmly believe that he will take the reigns from Day 1 next year and dominate. He didn't this year because a) his knee wasn't 100%, b) his D needs some serious work, and c) the PG position at Duke is by far the most demanding and difficult to understand. Kyrie is by far the exception, not the rule.

    I like Tyler, but Quinn is our game changer. If he can work on his D and work with the coaching staff some more, he'll be insanely dangerous.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    I have to say that I haven't seen a whole lot on Amile, but he seems to be a pretty adept offensive player, but his defense looks to be more developed than you would think. A friend of mine who is a State alum was talking about him with me and stated that the State people have described him as a "glue stick".

    I think he could possibly get the nod for combo forward minutes. From the limited amount I have seen/heard, he is pretty athletic, has fast feet, is very disruptive and could make our defense translate into offense because of these things. I like his chances to get playing time because defense against driving players has been a weak point and he may be able to stop that a little better than our other interior players. If he can do defensive work even remotely close to Lance, I would say he should get the majority of the minutes at the 4.
    You start by saying you haven't seen the guy play very much, and by the end of the next paragraph he's starting over senior Ryan Kelly? Wow.

    I hope Amile comes to Duke but with the roster we have returning, I would be surprised if he plays more than 5 or 6 mpg as a freshman.

  8. #148
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    I really hope Amile comes to Duke. I think he's the kind of player who thrives over time in the Duke program, contributes a lot to team and has a lot of success afterwards.

    That said, we have a lot of data here about whether he will get a lot of minutes as a freshman. As someone, and I can't remember the thread or who did it, pointed out in a well researched posts, consensus Top-5 recruits tend to play a lot as freshman, no matter the roster composition, while recruits below that only tend to play a lot of minutes if the roster has some weird construction - like having virtually no seniors.

    It seems to be that expectations that, should Amile come here, that he will get lots and lots of minutes in the front court fly in the face fo what is likely based on the evidence available to us of how Coach K uses his roster.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    You start by saying you haven't seen the guy play very much, and by the end of the next paragraph he's starting over senior Ryan Kelly? Wow.

    I hope Amile comes to Duke but with the roster we have returning, I would be surprised if he plays more than 5 or 6 mpg as a freshman.
    There is a reason. What I have seen of Amile shows him to be able to run the floor and defend. I also go by what people who have seen a lot of him have said. Those people refer to him as a "glue stick."

    I just don't see a coherent strategy with Kelly out there on defense against good teams. Kelly is not a bad player by any means, but his skills make him difficult to fit into a strategy on the team right now. We don't have a Battier to hound guys. We don't have a Brand or a Boozer to dominate around the rim and cover up when he isn't as physical. We don't have a Kyle to be tougher than anybody else on the floor. Without these things, Ryan can mainly get in the way on defense. I say that because he is a long body, but he isn't going to keep guys away from the basket with his body. He isn't going to block shots from guys using an up and under when they move him. He isn't fast enough to run the floor if he gets a tip. These things matter.

    I think that with athletic guys who can defend, we can avoid the half court and mask the recent weaknesses of our team, slashing and creating. If we have guys like Rasheed hounding guys on the perimeter, Amile hounding a SF or PF, Alex or MG using their athleticism to defend and break for the outlet pass, on top of Mason, we have a team that doesn't have to rely purely on the half court. The strategy would be to turn them over and run like hell at the basket. It is a foot speed issue IMO.

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    There is a reason. What I have seen of Amile shows him to be able to run the floor and defend. I also go by what people who have seen a lot of him have said. Those people refer to him as a "glue stick."

    I just don't see a coherent strategy with Kelly out there on defense against good teams. Kelly is not a bad player by any means, but his skills make him difficult to fit into a strategy on the team right now. We don't have a Battier to hound guys. We don't have a Brand or a Boozer to dominate around the rim and cover up when he isn't as physical. We don't have a Kyle to be tougher than anybody else on the floor. Without these things, Ryan can mainly get in the way on defense. I say that because he is a long body, but he isn't going to keep guys away from the basket with his body. He isn't going to block shots from guys using an up and under when they move him. He isn't fast enough to run the floor if he gets a tip. These things matter.

    I think that with athletic guys who can defend, we can avoid the half court and mask the recent weaknesses of our team, slashing and creating. If we have guys like Rasheed hounding guys on the perimeter, Amile hounding a SF or PF, Alex or MG using their athleticism to defend and break for the outlet pass, on top of Mason, we have a team that doesn't have to rely purely on the half court. The strategy would be to turn them over and run like hell at the basket. It is a foot speed issue IMO.
    I smell a troll, I believe there is a reason you got that little flame. Seriously man... what you just posted does not make sense. I am usually fine with anybody on here who can post a reasonable argument for why they say what they say but this is just sooo wrong it was painful to read.


    - Rant over

  11. #151
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    Quote Originally Posted by dyedwab View Post
    I really hope Amile comes to Duke. I think he's the kind of player who thrives over time in the Duke program, contributes a lot to team and has a lot of success afterwards.

    That said, we have a lot of data here about whether he will get a lot of minutes as a freshman. As someone, and I can't remember the thread or who did it, pointed out in a well researched posts, consensus Top-5 recruits tend to play a lot as freshman, no matter the roster composition, while recruits below that only tend to play a lot of minutes if the roster has some weird construction - like having virtually no seniors.

    It seems to be that expectations that, should Amile come here, that he will get lots and lots of minutes in the front court fly in the face fo what is likely based on the evidence available to us of how Coach K uses his roster.
    I'd suggest easing off on how many minutes would be available at the PF slot for an incoming freshman, no matter how bighly ranked. First, check how long it took Brand to break through. Second, consider that Kelly has a lock on the job and that Murphy has a year in the system and is rated about the same in skillset. Then look at the fact that Hairston has size and a motor that will put him on the floor as a big. Finally, look at the the overlapping SFs that could come onto the floor as a quick team--Gbinije and Dawkins or the three guard offense of Curry, Cook, and Thornton. Moreover, it's entirely possible that Marshall will be in at center, meaning Mason goes to the PF (which is his stated roster position).

    At this point it is just silly to concern ourselves with PT for an unsigned player, much less impliedly promise him minutes when there are known quantities against whom he will need to compete.

    Let this play out in reality

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    I smell a troll, I believe there is a reason you got that little flame. Seriously man... what you just posted does not make sense. I am usually fine with anybody on here who can post a reasonable argument for why they say what they say but this is just sooo wrong it was painful to read.


    - Rant over
    I am not a troll. We just lost our one guy we relied on to create for himself. I think we can all agree, right? We are getting Rasheed who is very good, but is not the jab step crossover artist that Austin was, right (it is rare that anybody can create as well as Austin)? We didn't really run that much this year, right? Our defense was not too difficult for athletic teams to penetrate against, right? That was a problem based off of lateral movement. Do you think a guy who has fast feet on the inside could recover and stop the ball when a guy is penetrating (think Lance Thomas)? Look at our loss against Lehigh, we weren't even stopping the ball towards the end. They took the inbounds pass right to the basket. These things seem to point to wanting to avoid the half court where we will rely largely on the 3 point shot and try to play athletic on ball defense and run. I think Amile would let us do that better than Ryan.

    To sum up. We won't be a team that can slash a lot. Instead of relying purely on the 3, I think it would be smart to try to use defensive intensity and athleticism to run for easy points in transition to add to the shots we hit in the half court. Mason can run the floor. Amile would be able to run the floor. Rasheed would be able to run the floor. Tyler and Quinn can defend and throw the outlet/run the floor. Alex and Gbinije can run the floor. Perhaps I am responding heavily to what the critique of most analysts was last year, but I would like to get several athletes. Even if it doesn't translate in the half court offense (Lance Thomas and McClure), it would add easier points (transition) and keep opponents points off the board for wins. When we are forced to use the half court, we have shooters that will have ups and downs and we can dump the ball to mason in the post (he is reliable when opponents are kept honest by the shooters).
    Last edited by Gthoma2a; 04-15-2012 at 03:54 PM.

  13. #153
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    There is a reason. What I have seen of Amile shows him to be able to run the floor and defend. I also go by what people who have seen a lot of him have said. Those people refer to him as a "glue stick."

    I just don't see a coherent strategy with Kelly out there on defense against good teams. Kelly is not a bad player by any means, but his skills make him difficult to fit into a strategy on the team right now. We don't have a Battier to hound guys. We don't have a Brand or a Boozer to dominate around the rim and cover up when he isn't as physical. We don't have a Kyle to be tougher than anybody else on the floor. Without these things, Ryan can mainly get in the way on defense. I say that because he is a long body, but he isn't going to keep guys away from the basket with his body. He isn't going to block shots from guys using an up and under when they move him. He isn't fast enough to run the floor if he gets a tip. These things matter.

    I think that with athletic guys who can defend, we can avoid the half court and mask the recent weaknesses of our team, slashing and creating. If we have guys like Rasheed hounding guys on the perimeter, Amile hounding a SF or PF, Alex or MG using their athleticism to defend and break for the outlet pass, on top of Mason, we have a team that doesn't have to rely purely on the half court. The strategy would be to turn them over and run like hell at the basket. It is a foot speed issue IMO.
    Against high school kids not college where they are much more skilled and athletic.

    What do you mean no coherent strategy? Please elaborate for us or for me because I just do not understand.

    Most teams do not have those type of guys and are blessed when they do.

    Again elaborate on this because I am unsure how he was "in the way". He attempts to dram too many charges yes, but fix that and he is an ok defender who is usually in good position.


    Not fast enough to run the floor? He runs it better than than most true PFs we will actually play. Is Amile faster? Yes I would think so but I am not 100 percent sure but Amile is a different type if forward in how they play.


    Yes our weakness was penetration but so was our ability to rotate and I doubt a freshmen will grasp our defensive schemes better than Ryan and you do not have to be a great athlete to play good d. It helps but focus and discipline are much bigger contributors.


    Exactly! We have MG and Alex who both could play PF for us as well, especially against really mobile bigs like how State uses CJ Leslie. Why would we need Amile to
    do that?

    Run like hell? We would be able to run like hell and force turn overs by replacing one guy (Kelly) with an unproven freshmen PF who in all likelihood will not have our defense down.

  14. #154
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    I am not a troll. We just lost our one guy we relied on to create for himself. I think we can all agree, right? We are getting Rasheed who is very good, but is not the jab step crossover artist that Austin was, right (it is rare that anybody can create as well as Austin)? We didn't really run that much this year, right? Our defense was not too difficult for athletic teams to penetrate against, right? That was a problem based off of lateral movement. Do you think a guy who has fast feet on the inside could recover and stop the ball when a guy is penetrating (think Lance Thomas)? Look at our loss against Lehigh, we weren't even stopping the ball towards the end. They took the inbounds pass right to the basket. These things seem to point to wanting to avoid the half court where we will rely largely on the 3 point shot and try to play athletic on ball defense and run. I think Amile would let us do that better than Ryan.

    To sum up. We won't be a team that can slash a lot. Instead of relying purely on the 3, I think it would be smart to try to use defensive intensity and athleticism to run for easy points in transition to add to the shots we hit in the half court. Mason can run the floor. Amile would be able to run the floor. Rasheed would be able to run the floor. Tyler and Quinn can defend and throw the outlet/run the floor. Alex and Gbinije can run the floor. Perhaps I am responding heavily to what the critique of most analysts was last year, but I would like to get several athletes. Even if it doesn't translate in the half court offense (Lance Thomas and McClure), it would add easier points (transition) and keep opponents points off the board for wins. When we are forced to use the half court, we have shooters that will have ups and downs and we can dump the ball to mason in the post (he is reliable when opponents are kept honest by the shooters).
    OK thank you for responding and this is much better said but I still do not understand where you are getting this from. MG was touted as a great defensive player in high school was he not? He himself struggled with our defense and barely saw the court and he was at a position of drastic need where Amile is not.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    OK thank you for responding and this is much better said but I still do not understand where you are getting this from. MG was touted as a great defensive player in high school was he not? He himself struggled with our defense and barely saw the court and he was at a position of drastic need where Amile is not.
    I don't know why Gbinije didn't get a shot, but I am thinking that it is because we had Austin who we needed on the court so desperately and Tyler/Quinn were necessary to run the point. That meant we would have to get rid of Seth or Dre. We could do that since, to get points, we relied so heavily on shooting percentages. I also kind of think that it would be interesting to see if we are looking at Amile like we usually do 6-8 guys. If we see him as a 3-4, then it would explain the difference between Michael and him. I would have liked to see more tinkering around with the team last year (Michael playing more with Quinn and Austin), but I defer to K's superior knowledge. I I don't think it is that he doesn't want to see the team speed the game up with athleticism, but that we don't have enough of them to put a strategy like that into action. That, or he thought that our athletic players got a little loose with the ball when they were out there together (it would have been a young team with Quinn, Austin and Gbinije).

    Since we don't have a Scheyer or a Singler on this team, we may as well get athletes that play with passion and see what develops. Kyle was so physical that he made up for not being the fastest guy on the floor or being able to jump out of the gym (I believe he was half terminator) and Scheyer was a slow footed magician around the rim. I don't understand how Jon did what he did, but I loved him for doing it. He put spin on the ball in ways that I hadn't ever seen before and his dribbling was nothing fancy, but it was extremely effective. Even when he got fouled to the ground, I had the automatic expectation that the shot was going in. That isn't what we have right now IMO.
    Last edited by Gthoma2a; 04-15-2012 at 07:53 PM.

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    It's certainly possible for a Duke senior to lose a starting spot and/or see his PT drop. It happened to Greg Newton, it happened to Greg Paulus, it happened to Jeff Capel for awhile, although he regained his starting spot. Ricky Price, Taymon Domzalski, Carmen Wallace and others had diminished PT as seniors.

    But that's a pretty small percentage of Duke seniors who came into their senior season with major PT. In another thread, I've disagreed with a poster who thinks Ryan Kelly is better than James Michael McAdoo. But I think that's a lot more accurate than the idea that Kelly will drop behind Amile Jefferson because Duke doesn't know how to properly use Kelly.

    That said, I do think there's PT available for Jefferson as a freshman. I would expect Mason and Kelly to start and average in the neighborhood of 55 mpg, maybe a tad more, maybe a tad less.

    That leaves around 25 mpg at the 4/5. Jefferson would be competing for those minutes with a redshirt freshman and a junior, who has proven to be a solid complementary player but hasn't shown much more. So, it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to see Jefferson getting well over 5 mpg and positioning himself nicely for his sophomore season, a season in which Duke likely will be replacing two senior starters in the post positions. So, there is a need for Jefferson.

  17. #157
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    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    It's certainly possible for a Duke senior to lose a starting spot and/or see his PT drop. It happened to Greg Newton
    Don't see why you have to embarrass me in front of everybody like that... jeesh.


  18. #158
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    To think GN was recruited out of Canada and Steve Nash was overlooked. Proof recruiting is not a science. A perceived need and being able to fill that need are completely different.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    It's certainly possible for a Duke senior to lose a starting spot and/or see his PT drop. It happened to Greg Newton, it happened to Greg Paulus, it happened to Jeff Capel for awhile, although he regained his starting spot. Ricky Price, Taymon Domzalski, Carmen Wallace and others had diminished PT as seniors.

    But that's a pretty small percentage of Duke seniors who came into their senior season with major PT. In another thread, I've disagreed with a poster who thinks Ryan Kelly is better than James Michael McAdoo. But I think that's a lot more accurate than the idea that Kelly will drop behind Amile Jefferson because Duke doesn't know how to properly use Kelly.

    That said, I do think there's PT available for Jefferson as a freshman. I would expect Mason and Kelly to start and average in the neighborhood of 55 mpg, maybe a tad more, maybe a tad less.

    That leaves around 25 mpg at the 4/5. Jefferson would be competing for those minutes with a redshirt freshman and a junior, who has proven to be a solid complementary player but hasn't shown much more. So, it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to see Jefferson getting well over 5 mpg and positioning himself nicely for his sophomore season, a season in which Duke likely will be replacing two senior starters in the post positions. So, there is a need for Jefferson.
    I get that. I just want us to adapt. Some of these losses, it seems, these teams have been using the same scouting reports against us. I hope we make it more difficult than stop the 3 (force us to try to penetrate), drive and make our defender stay with your athletic players on cuts. Obviously it won't be the end of the world no matter what, but I think it would be good to reinvent ourselves.

  20. #160
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    I get that. I just want us to adapt. Some of these losses, it seems, these teams have been using the same scouting reports against us. I hope we make it more difficult than stop the 3 (force us to try to penetrate), drive and make our defender stay with your athletic players on cuts. Obviously it won't be the end of the world no matter what, but I think it would be good to reinvent ourselves.
    I'd like to see Duke reduce its reliance on the 3 by scoring more in transition and using its D to generate offense. I think an upgrade at PG will help in that area as much as it will help in the half-court offense.

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