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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bradvinjack View Post
    The top 3 does produce a lot of studs, with all but two being top picks in the draft. But as far as winner's only two out of the 16 won a national championship.
    Just saying, there really aren't that many championships to go around. It might not be the best measure of individual influence.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    I guess we'll find out if Mason returning has any effect on Amile. Mason is a 5 and Amile a 4, so theoretically it should not matter. But looking at it from the perspective of 80 frontcourt minutes a game, it does matter. If we do not get Amile, that just means more minutes for Alex Murphy and Mike Gbinije and Josh Hairston, which is ok by me. But they had better step up on defense to get some PT.

  3. #83
    Amile doesn't care about Mason. Besides not playing the same position, he's a long-term, academics-centric recruit who knows he has to spend his freshman year getting much stronger. Until he gets stronger, he's more of a 3/4 than a 4/3 anyway, so I wouldn't count him out of getting minutes at the 3.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Amile doesn't care about Mason. Besides not playing the same position, he's a long-term, academics-centric recruit who knows he has to spend his freshman year getting much stronger. Until he gets stronger, he's more of a 3/4 than a 4/3 anyway, so I wouldn't count him out of getting minutes at the 3.

    Agreed. In fact, I can't see any of the recruits Duke is looking at as worrying about Mason coming back. If anything, Parker is waiting on Amile and Amile on Parker. I couldn't see them both coming to Duke.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Agreed. In fact, I can't see any of the recruits Duke is looking at as worrying about Mason coming back. If anything, Parker is waiting on Amile and Amile on Parker. I couldn't see them both coming to Duke.
    I think Parker is waiting on Muhammad actually. If Muhammad chooses UCLA, I think Parker will too. If Muhammad chooses somewhere else, then its unclear where Parker goes. I don't think Parker and Jefferson are deciding based on each other's choice.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think Parker is waiting on Muhammad actually. If Muhammad chooses UCLA, I think Parker will too. If Muhammad chooses somewhere else, then its unclear where Parker goes. I don't think Parker and Jefferson are deciding based on each other's choice.
    I'm not saying they're a package deal or anything. I think that they're seeing where the minutes are going to be. Parker delayed his decision well past Shabazz's, so I don't think they're really that linked.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Columbus OH 614
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think Parker is waiting on Muhammad actually. If Muhammad chooses UCLA, I think Parker will too. If Muhammad chooses somewhere else, then its unclear where Parker goes. I don't think Parker and Jefferson are deciding based on each other's choice.
    I thought about that but it doesn't really make sense to me....You really think TPs going to go to UCLA strictly on the strength of Bazz going there but not know about it ahead of time? These kids are tight, if Bazz is headed to UCLA and Tony was going to follow suit I would think they'd have already discussed it and know each others plans...

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think Parker is waiting on Muhammad actually. If Muhammad chooses UCLA, I think Parker will too. If Muhammad chooses somewhere else, then its unclear where Parker goes. I don't think Parker and Jefferson are deciding based on each other's choice.
    I think this makes sense. Parker would likely join Muhammed and Kyle Anderson if Muhammed chooses to go that way. Or he'd follow Muhammed to Duke in the unlikely event that happens. Or if Nerlens Noel chooses someone other than Kentucky, Parker might jump at those minutes with or without Muhammed.

    I think there's plenty of minutes for Parker at Duke, even with Mason returning. But I am not so sure he sees it that way.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I think this makes sense. Parker would likely join Muhammed and Kyle Anderson if Muhammed chooses to go that way. Or he'd follow Muhammed to Duke in the unlikely event that happens. Or if Nerlens Noel chooses someone other than Kentucky, Parker might jump at those minutes with or without Muhammed.

    I think there's plenty of minutes for Parker at Duke, even with Mason returning. But I am not so sure he sees it that way.
    Honestly, I think it would be great if Parker came to Duke next year, but I don't know how many minutes he would get his first year. That is going to be one crowded team next year. With Mason, Marshall, Ryan, Josh all getting minutes at the 4 and 5 and maybe Alex and/or Gbinijie as well, I think it would be difficult for Parker (or Jefferson for that matter) to get 10 minutes per game. Someone very talented is likely to be out of the rotation next year as is, if the team adds anyone else, that would leave someone else with very few minutes. As always, I will be hoping for lots of blowouts so that everyone gets in and coach K fully using all his depth to run other teams out of the gym, but I will settle for an 8 man rotation and the typical 25-35 wins. Ho-hum.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by NSDukeFan View Post
    Honestly, I think it would be great if Parker came to Duke next year, but I don't know how many minutes he would get his first year. That is going to be one crowded team next year. With Mason, Marshall, Ryan, Josh all getting minutes at the 4 and 5 and maybe Alex and/or Gbinijie as well, I think it would be difficult for Parker (or Jefferson for that matter) to get 10 minutes per game. Someone very talented is likely to be out of the rotation next year as is, if the team adds anyone else, that would leave someone else with very few minutes. As always, I will be hoping for lots of blowouts so that everyone gets in and coach K fully using all his depth to run other teams out of the gym, but I will settle for an 8 man rotation and the typical 25-35 wins. Ho-hum.
    No disrespect to him as a person, but from what ive seen out of josh, im not sure he better than parker or jefferson. I know he's a hard worker and a team player etc., but that can only take you so far. He's not overly athletic, is pretty uncoordinated/confused on the court, and severly undersized for his position. I mean, there are teams out there with SG that are Josh's height. I like Josh and I think he's an asset to our team, but I dont really see him playing ahead of those 2 young freshman. While they are all around the same height, TP and AJ are both slightly taller and bring more to the table offensively IMO.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by jennja01 View Post
    No disrespect to him as a person, but from what ive seen out of josh, im not sure he better than parker or jefferson. I know he's a hard worker and a team player etc., but that can only take you so far. He's not overly athletic, is pretty uncoordinated/confused on the court, and severly undersized for his position. I mean, there are teams out there with SG that are Josh's height. I like Josh and I think he's an asset to our team, but I dont really see him playing ahead of those 2 young freshman. While they are all around the same height, TP and AJ are both slightly taller and bring more to the table offensively IMO.
    You may be right in that freshmen Parker and Jefferson (ranked around 20th in RSCI) could possibly play more than junior Hairston (ranked #32 in RSCI in his class). I have certainly seen more of Josh at the college level compared to the freshmen, so I know that he can contribute at this level and haven't seen that from the freshmen yet. Even if that is true, and Jefferson and/or Parker were to play more than Hairston, would they be able to get more than approximately 10 minutes per game while competing with Mason, Ryan, Marshall, Josh, and possibly Alex and Gbinijie for minutes at the 4 and 5?
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by jennja01 View Post
    No disrespect to him as a person, but from what ive seen out of josh, im not sure he better than parker or jefferson. I know he's a hard worker and a team player etc., but that can only take you so far. He's not overly athletic, is pretty uncoordinated/confused on the court, and severly undersized for his position. I mean, there are teams out there with SG that are Josh's height. I like Josh and I think he's an asset to our team, but I dont really see him playing ahead of those 2 young freshman. While they are all around the same height, TP and AJ are both slightly taller and bring more to the table offensively IMO.
    I think Josh is the rare player who is better off being a bit skinny and has been hurt by weight gain since his senior year in high school. (It doesn't happen often, but it happens.) He looked bouncy and more smooth when he was at Courtland HS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxdIsQ32aJA ) before he transferred to Montrose and got into a real weight-training program. I think if he shaves about 10 pounds, his game would improve as his quickness becomes a factor. You kinda want to be quicker or bigger than your man, and Josh is sort of in a weird place right now where he's neither. He's swallowed up by high-major size but unable to use quickness against them; the added strength has only served to make him more stubby. Just my two cents. Could be wrong.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Agreed. In fact, I can't see any of the recruits Duke is looking at as worrying about Mason coming back. If anything, Parker is waiting on Amile and Amile on Parker. I couldn't see them both coming to Duke.
    I don't agree; since Mason's return reduces available minutes at the 4 and 3. Kelly should not be playing sig minutes at center and that means Murphy will likely very few minutes at power forward. It all trickles down.

    I think its great Mason returns and really takes pressure off adding another recruit. Of course next year, we must land some big bodies.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I think Josh is the rare player who is better off being a bit skinny and has been hurt by weight gain since his senior year in high school. (It doesn't happen often, but it happens.) He looked bouncy and more smooth when he was at Courtland HS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxdIsQ32aJA ) before he transferred to Montrose and got into a real weight-training program. I think if he shaves about 10 pounds, his game would improve as his quickness becomes a factor. You kinda want to be quicker or bigger than your man, and Josh is sort of in a weird place right now where he's neither. He's swallowed up by high-major size but unable to use quickness against them; the added strength has only served to make him more stubby. Just my two cents. Could be wrong.
    Completely agree. I remember Josh seeming more like a SF, even at Montrose, and would regularly make confident moves on the perimeter and throw down alley-oops and such. I was sort of hoping we'd develop him in that mold, but we tried to make him a banger instead.

    I could be wrong, but I think he acknowledged at some point this season that he gained a little too much weight. Hopefully he focused on explosiveness and toning up this offseason; he needs to be more in the Deshaun Thomas mold than the Jeff Adrien mold, IMO. He just doesn't have the length or hops necessary to offset being 6'7 as it is.

  15. #95

    Big Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    I don't agree; since Mason's return reduces available minutes at the 4 and 3. Kelly should not be playing sig minutes at center and that means Murphy will likely very few minutes at power forward. It all trickles down.

    I think its great Mason returns and really takes pressure off adding another recruit. Of course next year, we must land some big bodies.
    It makes more sense for Duke to land a big body for next season. It usually takes a season or two for big guys to be able to make a significant contribution. If we wait to add one until after Mason and Ryan have both left the program we will start off pretty green, with only Marshall and perhaps Alex as our inside players. We know that big buys seldom play much over 25 minutes a game, so there will be quite a few minutes at both the 4 and 5 position to fill next season, with Josh and Alex probables to eat some of the PT at the 4, but only Marshall to take the 5. Tony Parker would be able to fill the 5 for short periods while he improves his physical conditioning.
    Last edited by Saratoga2; 04-11-2012 at 09:41 AM. Reason: oops, forgot about Marshall

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    Completely agree. I remember Josh seeming more like a SF, even at Montrose, and would regularly make confident moves on the perimeter and throw down alley-oops and such. I was sort of hoping we'd develop him in that mold, but we tried to make him a banger instead.

    I could be wrong, but I think he acknowledged at some point this season that he gained a little too much weight. Hopefully he focused on explosiveness and toning up this offseason; he needs to be more in the Deshaun Thomas mold than the Jeff Adrien mold, IMO. He just doesn't have the length or hops necessary to offset being 6'7 as it is.

    I remember telling my Dad during a game this year that Josh Hairston looks a little too bulky to me and I didn't like it. He said we needed it, to have more muscle inside to help Kelly and the Plumlee's. I disagreed and am glad to know I wasn't the only onee that thought this. I agree if he sheds 10 lbs and gets more comfortable, he should be a starter his senior year. I absolutely think we'll see a leaner Josh next year.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    I could be wrong, but I think he acknowledged at some point this season that he gained a little too much weight. Hopefully he focused on explosiveness and toning up this offseason; he needs to be more in the Deshaun Thomas mold than the Jeff Adrien mold, IMO. He just doesn't have the length or hops necessary to offset being 6'7 as it is.
    Yes, I heard Josh in a radio interview around December or January say that he had tried to put on a lot of weight last offseason. He said he had gotten a lot stronger, but he acknowledged that some of it was not good weight. So if he continues working hard on his conditioning this summer, I think we can predict a stronger but slightly trimmer Josh next year.

    I think Josh, Ryan, and Mason have all made excellent strides in developing strength since arriving as freshmen, and Amile would benefit greatly from whatever weight training regimen they've been using at Duke.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    Completely agree. I remember Josh seeming more like a SF, even at Montrose, and would regularly make confident moves on the perimeter and throw down alley-oops and such. I was sort of hoping we'd develop him in that mold, but we tried to make him a banger instead.

    I could be wrong, but I think he acknowledged at some point this season that he gained a little too much weight. Hopefully he focused on explosiveness and toning up this offseason; he needs to be more in the Deshaun Thomas mold than the Jeff Adrien mold, IMO. He just doesn't have the length or hops necessary to offset being 6'7 as it is.
    I don't think getting stronger is necessarily a bad thing. It's how you go about getting stronger. If you bulk up without consideration of maintaining explosiveness (which appears to be the mistake Hairston made) it's bad. But it is certainly possible to get bigger/stronger AND maintain explosiveness.

    I'd expect Hairston to work on his explosiveness and conditioning this offseason while maintaining his strength work.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I don't think getting stronger is necessarily a bad thing. It's how you go about getting stronger. If you bulk up without consideration of maintaining explosiveness (which appears to be the mistake Hairston made) it's bad. But it is certainly possible to get bigger/stronger AND maintain explosiveness.

    I'd expect Hairston to work on his explosiveness and conditioning this offseason while maintaining his strength work.
    This is a good point, as weight and strength are not directly correlated. For basketball players, putting on too much upper body bulk without adequately increasing lower body strength can make one stronger in terms of bench pressing but slower and less explosive over all (leaping, lateral quickness). It is possible to have more effective strength (lower body strength and a better muscle to fat ratio) while actually losing weight over all. Obviously, every individual is a unique case and finding the best balance between mobility, strength, and weight is not a one size fits all process. Hairston is still growing, anyway, as he's just a 19-20 year old kid. I have no doubt that he'll find the right balance.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    This is a good point, as weight and strength are not directly correlated. For basketball players, putting on too much upper body bulk without adequately increasing lower body strength can make one stronger in terms of bench pressing but slower and less explosive over all (leaping, lateral quickness). It is possible to have more effective strength (lower body strength and a better muscle to fat ratio) while actually losing weight over all. Obviously, every individual is a unique case and finding the best balance between mobility, strength, and weight is not a one size fits all process. Hairston is still growing, anyway, as he's just a 19-20 year old kid. I have no doubt that he'll find the right balance.
    Just saw on twitter, DeShawn Painter will NOT return to NCSU due to illness in the family. Tough break for Painter the Wolfpack no question, but even though Painter is a center you have to think this opens more minutes up should Jefferson be interested.
    2009-2010 can't come soon enough.

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