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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I don't know how much he'll be ready to contribute his freshman year, but he'd certainly be a great addition to the Duke team.
    I saw Amile play only one time, so my mild disagreement with you here is based on such limited "evidence" as to constitute just a guess. To claim it's an educated guess might go too far.

    Just in case Andre redshirts and Parker chooses, say, Georgia [another no-evidence guess], Amile becomes Duke's 10th player. But I'm guessing he might not be 10th in terms of mpg, simply because he can play some 3, behind Alex.

    Now, there have been innumerable posts re whether he "is" a 3 or 4. I think he "is" a 4, ultimately, and even this year, had Mason departed. But Mason stayed. Then there's the argument re whether he's a 3 [body] playing 4 [position], or a 4 [length, instincts] playing 4.

    In the no-Andre-no-Tony scenario, perhaps we could think of Amile as a 4 playing some 3. Then we could argue about whether Amile is capable of helping some as a slightly-out-of-position-3. My yes answer - 7-10 mpg in 2012-'13 - derives from his play in that single game I saw. What I saw was a guy who defended the 4/5, and who played as an "interior" player, but with a "wing" aspect on O. That is, while Amile seemed always to want to get toward the rim, he started his O-moves pretty frequently out on the wing, using his dribble and good footwork to get to the lane or baseline.

    So in my scenario - 7-10 mpg as Alex's backup - he'd hardly be the O-focus, but is capable of scoring a basket every now and then, and passing into the post [with those long arms of his]. Perfectly acceptable, I'll guess. Further, he's hardly a klutz on D. His footwork's good, so I'm yet unwilling to concede that he "cannot" guard a 6'5-8" player out on the wing.

    I am not saying Amile is an "ideal" 3. He isn't an ideal anything, just yet. I am, however, biased in his favor, as I was somewhat taken with the smarts, and sneakiness, of his game. Does my bias undercut the actual substance of the argument I have made? Maybe we should take a secret ballot. So as not to hurt my feelings.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoz View Post
    Man I hate it when these recruiting threads are hijacked by unrelated post, but I just couldn't let this pass.

    In Baton Rouge, Duke won 77-67. During the closing minutes with the game on the line, Laettner took over and scored 12 of his 22 points. A special 2-3 matchup zone was designed to guard Laettner. In the closing minutes, Laettner hit two threes to give Duke the lead they never relinquished, leaving Shaq to ponder, "Who was guarding him?"

    Shaq outplayed Laettner? Shaq 25 points, 12 rebs... Laettner 22 points, 10 rebs. I would call that a draw, particularly when you consider that Bobby Hurley, Duke's main assist man did not play because of a broken foot.
    Of course, our backup point guard responded with 40 minutes played, 16 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 assists. Not a bad backup, that Grant Hill guy.

    Duke 77 -- Louisiana State 67

    I'll try to bring it back...Amile Jefferson may turn out to be a versatile college player, let's hope he's half as versatile as Grant Hill.

  3. #283
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    That's a nice article. He seems like a really good kid. I don't know how much he'll be ready to contribute his freshman year, but he'd certainly be a great addition to the Duke team.
    Amile really evidences a certain maturity and humility that will serve him well at the next level. I really hope he comes aboard as I think he would thrive in a system like Duke's, not only on the court, but in the locker room, and in the classroom. He strikes me as a "classic" Duke recruit, the type of well-rounded young man we all relish. Even if he's not the flashiest of recruits, there's a lot of substance there.

  4. #284
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    In the no-Andre-no-Tony scenario, perhaps we could think of Amile as a 4 playing some 3. Then we could argue about whether Amile is capable of helping some as a slightly-out-of-position-3. My yes answer - 7-10 mpg in 2012-'13 - derives from his play in that single game I saw. What I saw was a guy who defended the 4/5, and who played as an "interior" player, but with a "wing" aspect on O. That is, while Amile seemed always to want to get toward the rim, he started his O-moves pretty frequently out on the wing, using his dribble and good footwork to get to the lane or baseline.

    So in my scenario - 7-10 mpg as Alex's backup - he'd hardly be the O-focus, but is capable of scoring a basket every now and then, and passing into the post [with those long arms of his]. Perfectly acceptable, I'll guess. Further, he's hardly a klutz on D. His footwork's good, so I'm yet unwilling to concede that he "cannot" guard a 6'5-8" player out on the wing.
    If Andre redshirts and Amile comes to Duke, I think your guess is reasonable. It would not surprise me if Amile plays 7 to 10 mpg in 2012-13, at least early in the season. I even agree with you that it would have to come at SF. I personally have some doubts as to whether he'll be able to guard the position, but when I said "I don't know how much he'll be ready to contribute his freshman year," I really meant I don't know. I'm probably not as optimistic as you are about his chances as a freshman, but Alex will be spending at least 5 to 15 minutes on the bench, and someone's going to have to take those minutes. If Andre's not around to do it, our only reasonable options would be 6'3" Rasheed, 6'1" Tyler, or Amile, if he chooses Duke. Against teams with larger SFs, if Amile could guard them adequately he would seem to be the most logical of the three options. The question remains whether he, in fact, can guard them adequately. We won't know until we know. Again assuming Andre is redshirting, by the time ACC season rolls around if Amile can defend SFs I'd expect him to continue seeing rotation minutes as probably the 8th man and if he struggles to defend SFs I'd expect his minutes to dwindle.

    I have one minor quibble with your logic, though. I've never heard that long arms make someone a good passer. Also, to the extent Amile passes, I expect it will be mostly kick-outs for threes. If Amile is playing SF with Ryan and Mason, it would seem to make sense to mostly play a three-out, two-in offense, with Amile attempting to post up and when the opponent packs it in to stop him and Mason, kicking out to Ryan, Seth, or Rasheed.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I have one minor quibble with your logic, though. I've never heard that long arms make someone a good passer. Also, to the extent Amile passes, I expect it will be mostly kick-outs for threes. If Amile is playing SF with Ryan and Mason, it would seem to make sense to mostly play a three-out, two-in offense, with Amile attempting to post up and when the opponent packs it in to stop him and Mason, kicking out to Ryan, Seth, or Rasheed.
    You make a good scenario-point about these lineup hypotheticals. Depending on which bigs are on the floor with Amile playing the 3, Amile could defend the 3 but then on O move inside to be the recipient of a pass, rather than a wing passer.

    It does seem reasonable, we [and perhaps others?] agree, that Amile could play some as Alex's backup. We also seem to be inching toward the view that "play" here means play the 3 on D, and then on O move inside, some. If Amile were on the floor for a 3-minute stretch with Mason and Ryan, it does seem logical that on O Ryan would screen and then drift out to the corner or perimeter, ready to 3-bomb, whereas Amile would become a baseline attacker, kick-out passer, and O-rebounder.

    Amile, you're out there, right? How come you haven't already come aboard? You're gonna help win us some games, probably a NC, as a frosh. Then it's 2-peat, 3-peat for you, Alex, Rasheed, Marshall, Quinn, the whole gang.
    Last edited by gumbomoop; 04-23-2012 at 01:38 PM.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    It does seem reasonable, we [and perhaps others?] agree, that Amile could play some as Alex's backup.
    Ultimately it will hinge on how well he could defend the position. Are his feet quick enough to guard high major SFs? No way to know at this juncture.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Ultimately it will hinge on how well he could defend the position. Are his feet quick enough to guard high major SFs? No way to know at this juncture.
    It seems like the 3 will be a pick your poison proposition for Duke next year. Aside from Alex (how good/capable is he at guarding the 3? lord knows but at least on paper he seems to fit the bill), the other potential candidate will give up either size or speed. Amile at least seems big enough to guard a 3.

  8. #288
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    Cabbagetown, Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Certainly any post where I cite myself as an athletic example could be properly criticized.

    I had and still have trouble taking seriously your assertion that 18-19 YOs are at peak physical performance. People used to say that decades ago, but modern training regimes have helped us better understand physiological development. I do recommend the article cited above by El diablo for a scholarly take on the problem.
    I was excited to read some published findings on the matter, but this article concerns chess players and track and field athletes.

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Strength is far greater for older athletes. Coordination, especially a problem for lanky basketball players, seems to come in at different rates, but athletes are much more capable in the NBA than in college in skills and moves.
    Agree 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    In pure speed it may be close but with modern training techniques sprinters are competitive throughout their 20s. The old days, when Dave Sime set six world records in three weeks as a 19YO Duke sophomore, are long past.
    "It may be close"?... then my argument has some merit to you. Originally I said that college players are at a physical peak (running/jumping) and that is why I like the college game. That was it. That was what I wrote. Then people that don't read carefully start saying "NBA players are better than college players," which is pretty much true!

    I think that speed in T&F is not the best comparison, because T&F is a non-contact sport. Even when they jump, they land on their backs on a padded mat. In basketball, you land on hard wood on your feet. A sport like basketball/football takes its toll on your body sooner.

    The whole thing that started this discussion was that I said that an 18/19 yo has not yet really had the effects of all of the bumping, landing, etc. break down their bodies. So, in a contact sport I would bet that your body starts to feel the effects sooner (5 years?) than a non-contact sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Some of the advantages that we used to give to youth have been eclipsed by a better understanding of what is possible for older athletes. Much of what we have seen in recent years is because of the high salaries in many professional and quasi-professional sports. This gives athletes an incentive (and the ability) to train year-round. That wasn't the case in MLB and the NFL of my youth. Guys needed jobs in the off-season.

    Now you do make a valid point, but a different one, about "wear and tear in the NBA." I have also heard that college recruiters are leery of football players from the cities, where their legs have been damaged by running on concrete and other hard surfaces. But "wear and tear" is a different argument from the age profile of peak physical performance.
    That was my only point. I do not mean to accuse you of misquoting, but I never used the term "performance" in what I was saying. Pretty much all players get better as basketball players, skill-wise and performance-wise in the NBA. I said originally that I like college basketball because the players are at a physical peak, unrelated to performance, at 18/19 before the wear and tear of the NBA. Yeah, they may not be as coordinated, but jeez, look at skinny, lanky guys like Henson and Davis. They have enough coordination for me to enjoy watching them play. I will bet they will be even better skill-wise in 6 years, but the chances of them still having the same vertical leap and speed up and down the floor is unlikely.


    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    And my reference to Grant Hill was not to say he was an exception to the rule of "peaking in the mid to late 20s," but to say he was a phenomenal athlete at age 18 and, while probably even better later (until injuries took their toll), he was in the top 1% of the top 1% of the top 1% of the population as a teenager.

    sagegrouse
    My reference to Grant Hill was to prove my point, and that is that every time I hear him talk about the Kansas jump, he says he wishes he could still jump that high. And he started saying that just a few years into the league!

  9. #289
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    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    So uh... will we get this thread to 60 pages now?

  10. #290
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    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    So uh... will we get this thread to 60 pages now?
    If his announcement lasts as long as TP's, absolutely

  11. #291
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    Durham

    Next Play!

    Per Watzone

    Mark Watson ‏ @BlueDevilNation
    Come on down Amile Jefferson!

    I have nothing to add.

  12. #292
    Does anybody know if Amile has a date he's planning to decide by?

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Does anybody know if Amile has a date he's planning to decide by?
    Other than waiting on Bennett to decide if he goes to Kentucky, there's really nothing left to affect his decision so I would guess a commitment to UK, Duke, NCSU, or 'Nova should come "shortly".

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBrowns View Post
    Other than waiting on Bennett to decide if he goes to Kentucky, there's really nothing left to affect his decision so I would guess a commitment to UK, Duke, NCSU, or 'Nova should come "shortly".
    I hope he doesnt wait for bennett as it doesn't appear that Bennett is in any rush to decide.

  15. #295

    OK..then by what date does Duke need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by dukedoc View Post
    I hope he doesnt wait for bennett as it doesn't appear that Bennett is in any rush to decide.
    Hi,

    Is there any date that Duke needs so as to let a kid off a waiting list or something along those lines or does Duke (or any school for that matter) always have room for athletes as long as the coach wants him/her and there are schollys available?

    GO DUKE!

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    If Andre redshirts and Amile comes to Duke, I think your guess is reasonable. It would not surprise me if Amile plays 7 to 10 mpg in 2012-13, at least early in the season. I even agree with you that it would have to come at SF. I personally have some doubts as to whether he'll be able to guard the position, but when I said "I don't know how much he'll be ready to contribute his freshman year," I really meant I don't know. I'm probably not as optimistic as you are about his chances as a freshman, but Alex will be spending at least 5 to 15 minutes on the bench, and someone's going to have to take those minutes. If Andre's not around to do it, our only reasonable options would be 6'3" Rasheed, 6'1" Tyler, or Amile, if he chooses Duke. Against teams with larger SFs, if Amile could guard them adequately he would seem to be the most logical of the three options. The question remains whether he, in fact, can guard them adequately. We won't know until we know. Again assuming Andre is redshirting, by the time ACC season rolls around if Amile can defend SFs I'd expect him to continue seeing rotation minutes as probably the 8th man and if he struggles to defend SFs I'd expect his minutes to dwindle.

    I have one minor quibble with your logic, though. I've never heard that long arms make someone a good passer. Also, to the extent Amile passes, I expect it will be mostly kick-outs for threes. If Amile is playing SF with Ryan and Mason, it would seem to make sense to mostly play a three-out, two-in offense, with Amile attempting to post up and when the opponent packs it in to stop him and Mason, kicking out to Ryan, Seth, or Rasheed.
    Either that or Amile and Josh try to change MO's Josh being a SF height wise having bulked up to 235 to be a PF, not necessarily any better a SF skill wise.

    Josh could trim down and be a backup SF defender while Amile could bulk up to be a PF backup.

    Josh having been in the Duke system a couple years might be better able to handle switching on the perimeter if he could get back some of his lateral quickness that he displayed playing a lot at top of the key in HS as I recall.

    Assuming Dre at least still practices while on sabbatical, that would give Alex someone to practice against sometimes who has at least played some ACC SF, while at other times the PF trying to resemble a SF (Josh or Amile) takes on Alex.

    Same if it's Rodney instead. Since he is ineleigble, he could be that fourth big in practice while Josh who is eligible gets some time as a backup SF, and Dre gives the four guards some variety to practice against sometimes.

    Without another eligible big though, not gonna work since Josh has to stay bulked up @ 235 to be PF and cannot simultaneously be quick enough to guard a SF.

    It would only be a guess whether at this point Josh or MP3 is Duke's first big off the bench, since no one has seen how much MP3 has improved since last year's Blue-White game, except the players and coaches of course.

    If it's Josh though, may not be able to afford having him slim down enough to gain mobility as a Backup SF. Some trimming down to be a quicker backup PF may be in order, but there's a limit.

    Then Duke is back to Tyler or Rasheed, unless Amile or someone else who is eligibile joins the team.

  17. #297
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    Feb 2009
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    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by azzefkram View Post
    It seems like the 3 will be a pick your poison proposition for Duke next year. Aside from Alex (how good/capable is he at guarding the 3? lord knows but at least on paper he seems to fit the bill), the other potential candidate will give up either size or speed. Amile at least seems big enough to guard a 3.
    The thing people seem to be forgetting is that Sheed is the exact same size as Austin, who played the "3" for us all year (and Thornton also guarded the 3 fairly often). Austin measured 6'5 in shoes with a 6'7 wingspan at one of the HS camps, while Sheed checked in at 6'4.5 with a 6'8 wingspan.

    I wasn't crazy about our 3-guard lineup this year, but as a 5-15 mpg stopgap, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

  18. #298
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    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    The thing people seem to be forgetting is that Sheed is the exact same size as Austin, who played the "3" for us all year (and Thornton also guarded the 3 fairly often). Austin measured 6'5 in shoes with a 6'7 wingspan at one of the HS camps, while Sheed checked in at 6'4.5 with a 6'8 wingspan.

    I wasn't crazy about our 3-guard lineup this year, but as a 5-15 mpg stopgap, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
    Is it fair to say Austin looks a little thicker in his core than Rasheed though? Rasheed has a inch in length which helps, but he appears a little more wiry to me than Austin.

    Wainstein Report Page 19 Section G:
    In men’s basketball, academic counselor Burgess McSwain (“McSwain”) and
    her successor Wayne Walden routinely called Crowder to arrange classes for their
    players.
    Roy Williams Of Nazareth had no knowledge however. He is sinless.

  19. #299
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Is it fair to say Austin looks a little thicker in his core than Rasheed though? Rasheed has a inch in length which helps, but he appears a little more wiry to me than Austin.
    Aren't they both listed at 190-195 lbs or so?

    And, keep in mind, this is before Rasheed has been introduced to hush puppies.

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukedoc View Post
    Per Watzone

    Mark Watson ‏ @BlueDevilNation
    Come on down Amile Jefferson!

    I have nothing to add.
    Exhortation? Prognostication? Celebration?

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