New 2012 Recruiting Thread

[Class of '94]

Poythress into Scout's Top 10 for 2012. Rankings aren't everything, but the collective remorse of many of us during the recent all star festivities that we moved away from him is reflected in Scout's assessment of his recent performance.

Also, Sheed at 12, and TP and Amile at 20/21.

LINK

Yeah, but Alex P wanted to be a SF in college and we already had Alex M and MG at the time. From previous post accounts, he didn't want to be a 4, which is what Duke wanted. In hindsight, I would've loved to have had him; but I don't think the would've, could've, should've applies in this case.

I'm more excited about the trajectory Sheed is heading; I think he's going to have a very good freshman year for us.

[dukedoc]

In hindsight, I would've loved to have had him; but I don't think the would've, could've, should've applies in this case.

I might be using it incorrectly, but isn't w've c've s've supposed to mean that in hindsight you would change something that happened previously? I'm not saying the decision was wrong in that moment, but given what has transpired since then, it'd be nice to have Alex P on board with us.

[MCFinARL]

Even though they have him at #12 overall, Scout's list has Rasheed Sulaimon as the top-rated guard in the land. (although in my mind Kyle Anderson is a guard, and he's rated ahead of Rasheed.)

Also of note: Mitch McGary, who had risen as high as #2 overall in the heat of his recruitment, now comes in at #26. Hmm.

This raises an interesting question--how much does the fact that elite schools are recruiting an athlete affect his ranking? It's got to have some effect, I think, and if that draws in more press coverage,there could be a circular effect all around. Similar to the way the last recruits to commit take on sometimes exaggerated importance, or the way some of the selections to the McDonald's AA and other all-star games may be influenced, on the margins, by the fact that a player has committed to a big-time program.

[wilko]

His name was Julius Peppers, and he spurned Duke for UNC. Played hoops until he couldn't stand Doherty any longer.

Unless, of course, you are thinking of Reggie Love, the bearer of the sacred Blackberry.

sagegrouse

Actually, I was thinking MORE recent than that, as in say the FB signees in the class '12 or '13 that played both sports in HS. Any chance someone with some eligibility left could contribute in both sports for Duke.

[Class of '94]

I might be using it incorrectly, but isn't w've c've s've supposed to mean that in hindsight you would change something that happened previously? I'm not saying the decision was wrong in that moment, but given what has transpired since then, it'd be nice to have Alex P on board with us.

You're probably right....My response is more of a way of trying not to dwell too much on the what if with Alex P. My point is that Duke wasn't recuriting Alex P to be a SF; and I'm not sure they would've wanted or recurited him for the 3 even in hindsight they knew at the time MG was going to transfer. That being said, I wonder where Alex M would have ranked in comparison to Alex P if Murphy had stayed in HS. If Alex is as good or better than expected, then not having Alex P or MG will not matter as much.

[Starter]

This raises an interesting question--how much does the fact that elite schools are recruiting an athlete affect his ranking? It's got to have some effect, I think, and if that draws in more press coverage,there could be a circular effect all around. Similar to the way the last recruits to commit take on sometimes exaggerated importance, or the way some of the selections to the McDonald's AA and other all-star games may be influenced, on the margins, by the fact that a player has committed to a big-time program.

It definitely has an effect, there's no question about it. But I also saw McGary in person and didn't think much of him. Granted, it was against Nerlens Noel, who can make a lot of people look bad, but McGary was a disaster. The book might be getting out on him a bit.

[UrinalCake]

This is a nice interview with K that I found on Airowe's twitter feed LINK

K just oozes wisdom. The response that caught my eye was concerning academics.

Getting back to these quotes from Coach K (which were also linked to on the main DBR page)... I've rarely seen him so upfront about the challenges of recruiting at Duke. While he's always direct and never shies away from answering a question, he's also usually much more diplomatic about the issue of academic requirements at Duke and doesn't want to in any way sound like he's making excuses. Makes me think that he's frustrated at some recruiting misses that we've had as well as the reactions from the media and fans on the state of Duke's recruiting. On the Coach K scale, this was a full-blown rant.

I think it goes both ways. Yes the academic requirements make Duke a tougher sell to the majority of kids, especially the one-and-doners. But to a handful of kids for whom academics truly are important, not to mention their parents, the lure of a Duke degree can be a real selling point. Seeing alumni succeed off the court helps in that regard too.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Getting back to these quotes from Coach K (which were also linked to on the main DBR page)... I've rarely seen him so upfront about the challenges of recruiting at Duke. While he's always direct and never shies away from answering a question, he's also usually much more diplomatic about the issue of academic requirements at Duke and doesn't want to in any way sound like he's making excuses. Makes me think that he's frustrated at some recruiting misses that we've had as well as the reactions from the media and fans on the state of Duke's recruiting. On the Coach K scale, this was a full-blown rant.

Maybe it has something to do with the loss to Lehigh.

[CPDUKEGUY24]

Maybe it has something to do with the loss to Lehigh.

...smh

Still too soon.

[Class of '94]

Getting back to these quotes from Coach K (which were also linked to on the main DBR page)... I've rarely seen him so upfront about the challenges of recruiting at Duke. While he's always direct and never shies away from answering a question, he's also usually much more diplomatic about the issue of academic requirements at Duke and doesn't want to in any way sound like he's making excuses. Makes me think that he's frustrated at some recruiting misses that we've had as well as the reactions from the media and fans on the state of Duke's recruiting. On the Coach K scale, this was a full-blown rant.

I think it goes both ways. Yes the academic requirements make Duke a tougher sell to the majority of kids, especially the one-and-doners. But to a handful of kids for whom academics truly are important, not to mention their parents, the lure of a Duke degree can be a real selling point. Seeing alumni succeed off the court helps in that regard too.

I took it as K trying to help people take a step back and gain a better perspective on Duke recruiting. When you think about the higher academic standings that athletes have to meet compared to other schools (UNC and UK, for example), I think it is amazing how much talent K and his staff have brought to Duke over the years; and as many posters have pointed out over multiple threads, Duke is not going to be for everybody but it still will be attractive to top tier talent that value education and things more than basketball a la Dawkins, Ferry, christian L, G Hill, Hurley, Battier, Brand, J williams, and the list goes on and on. No, Duke is not going to appeal to a talent like A Davis and that's ok because Duke will appeal to talents like Rivers, Irving, Sheed, and potential elite recuits like Jabari Parker (who may end up being a better prospect than Shabazz), Randle, Theo Pinson, and Okafor.

[MCFinARL]

I took it as K trying to help people take a step back and gain a better perspective on Duke recruiting. When you think about the higher academic standings that athletes have to meet compared to other schools (UNC and UK, for example), I think it is amazing how much talent K and his staff have brought to Duke over the years; and as many posters have pointed out over multiple threads, Duke is not going to be for everybody but it still will be attractive to top tier talent that value education and things more than basketball a la Dawkins, Ferry, christian L, G Hill, Hurley, Battier, Brand, J williams, and the list goes on and on. No, Duke is not going to appeal to a talent like A Davis and that's ok because Duke will appeal to talents like Rivers, Irving, Sheed, and potential elite recuits like Jabari Parker (who may end up being a better prospect than Shabazz), Randle, Theo Pinson, and Okafor.

This is a good point. Even among one and dones there are some players who want to have a full college experience, including academics, while waiting to get into the NBA, and who definitely have getting a degree on their to-do list at some point, even if not right away. For kids like this, Duke is an excellent choice.

And there are others who don't, and are playing college ball primarily because the other options for a pre-NBA "gap" year--the D-league or playing abroad--aren't as appealing. It's not a knock on those kids (even if I do, personally, think their future lives would be richer and hold more options with a college education), it's just the reality of the situation they find themselves in, with direct access to the NBA blocked. Some college programs (one most especially and most successfully) have responded by making it easy for these players to coast through the non-basketball parts of their pre-NBA "PG" year, which provides a valuable service for those players.

But the connection with higher education is tenuous, which makes one wonder about the judgments and choices being made at the institutional level. From that perspective, while I don't judge one set of kids as somehow "better" than the other, I do judge the Duke approach as superior to the Kentucky approach as far as the schools go.

[dukedoc]

Interesting tidbit from Airowe's crew about a Polish 7-footer who plans to come to America this this fall for school and hoops. LINK

[dukedoc]

Interesting tidbit from Airowe's crew about a Polish 7-footer who plans to come to America this this fall for school and hoops. LINK

Some more information from Eurohopes.com

[miltk]

This is a nice interview with K that I found on Airowe's twitter feed LINK

K just oozes wisdom. The response that caught my eye was concerning academics.

“Yeah we can’t go after every one-and-done guy because a lot of the guys and they are great players and great kids, but school isn’t as important. A lot of those guys a number of years ago didn’t have to go to college. Dwight Howard. Kobe Bryant. LeBron James. Kids are…it’s not even going one year. They are going to spend maybe six-seven months. Sometimes…we have a great school, but it’s not as attractive as going someplace else, so we have to be careful with who we get involved with because it could be a monumental waste of time for us.”

Although I think we all realize this, I tend to forget how big a role our academic threshold plays in our recruiting strategy. Very often I hear folks question K's judgment regarding why he didn't get involved with some top 20 hotshot recruit. In our minds, it's just about their highlight reels and rankings, but our coaches need to take into account a very complex amalgam of data when considering a recruit. Whereas at many schools academics can be an afterthought ("let's just get him signed and then we'll worry about getting him to qualify academically"), for K and company it sounds like academics are right at the forefront before they even start after a recruit. The pool they subsequently work with is smaller than what most other schools work with. Then, naturally, some academically adequate prospects are just not interested in Duke. This happens for all schools, even (gasp) the almighty KY.

I think K's intimation that one-and-dones more often than not will want to find a school they can easily coast through rather than encounter even a modicum of rigor makes sense. If a big pay day ain't that far away, it makes sense to go the path of least resistance, particularly if the basketball is just as excellent as it might be in Durham.

Recruiting is not easy. I'd say K's doing a pretty decent job.

ya know,,,,there just aren't that many 1dones for this to be an issue. and besides, ky gets them all. if there was a head count, i'm sure you will find more supposed 1dones staying than leaving, therefore the percentage favors going after them.

not to dispute k, but here's my reasoning. a 1done won't necessarily take the easiest path through school, because any school can make things easy for that player. okay, so maybe school A will offer "basketweaving 101", but school B might offer the tougher "jazz appreciation", and both schools will run that player through the minimum course requirement. the hard part is getting the kid IN, keeping him in is easy. imo, a kid who wants to 1done will go where he feels the HAPPIEST AND MOST COMFORTABLE. some coaches, like barnes, go after the problem kids because they feel they can turn that player. therefore an equally important factor is the coach's ability to relate to players whether they be problem kids or 1dones, which goes back to making kids feel happy and comfortable.

if you're reading into the interview as a coach's rant, then by inference if it were just as easy to recruit 1dones as any other player, then k go after them all (that is, if he's bemoaning that 1dones don't go to the dukes of this world). however i don't think k would be happy with a roster full of 1dones as there would be no continuity in the program. k gets just enough rivers and irvings to make it work.

[summerville]

From BR and DukeReport.com: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...polish-big-man thoughts?

[Newton_14]

From BR and DukeReport.com: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...polish-big-man thoughts?

Here is a much better article with better info:

DukeHoopBlog

[lilblue]

ya know,,,,there just aren't that many 1dones for this to be an issue. and besides, ky gets them all. if there was a head count, i'm sure you will find more supposed 1dones staying than leaving, therefore the percentage favors going after them.

not to dispute k, but here's my reasoning. a 1done won't necessarily take the easiest path through school, because any school can make things easy for that player. okay, so maybe school A will offer "basketweaving 101", but school B might offer the tougher "jazz appreciation", and both schools will run that player through the minimum course requirement. the hard part is getting the kid IN, keeping him in is easy. imo, a kid who wants to 1done will go where he feels the HAPPIEST AND MOST COMFORTABLE. some coaches, like barnes, go after the problem kids because they feel they can turn that player. therefore an equally important factor is the coach's ability to relate to players whether they be problem kids or 1dones, which goes back to making kids feel happy and comfortable.

if you're reading into the interview as a coach's rant, then by inference if it were just as easy to recruit 1dones as any other player, then k go after them all (that is, if he's bemoaning that 1dones don't go to the dukes of this world). however i don't think k would be happy with a roster full of 1dones as there would be no continuity in the program. k gets just enough rivers and irvings to make it work.

As K says, some of these kids are just not interested in the educational part of their "required" one year in college... In these cases why would you go to a school like Duke which requires more of it's student athletes then take the path of least resistance at Kentucky whose requirements are far less stringent. Ky maybe be where the feel more comfortable for this reason. Granted most probably wouldn't make the grade a Duke, which is probably why the majority a lot of these kid's recruitment doesn't get past the flirtation stage where we see what kind of student they are. I see it as we may not have missed on as many recruits as we probably have just stopped recruiting due to acedemics or they just weren't interested in that part of the Duke experience all together.

[Dev11]

Here is a much better article with better info:

DukeHoopBlog

7'1" 279? If he's actually that big and has any moves, stick him on the bench for a year and bring him in just to stand in front of Reggie Johnson.

Seriously though, it seems weird to be recruiting a center at this point in the process. We have Mason and Marshall for that position. Unless this Karnowski can slash and hit threes from the corner.

[airowe]

7'1" 279? If he's actually that big and has any moves, stick him on the bench for a year and bring him in just to stand in front of Reggie Johnson.

Seriously though, it seems weird to be recruiting a center at this point in the process. We have Mason and Marshall for that position. Unless this Karnowski can slash and hit threes from the corner.

Karnowski will help with depth this season but teams don't just recruit players for one year. Looking forward to 2014, Marshall is the only true big man on the roster. I know there are mixed feelings on Plumlee, but having only one true big man is not ideal for Duke no matter how well Marshall turns out to be.

[airowe]

From BR and DukeReport.com: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...polish-big-man thoughts?

Duke is not begging for anyone. What a laughable title. I find it interesting that Clontz knows enough about Karnowski's game to be able to judge his readiness for the NBA or the college game and enough to analyze his strengths and weaknesses. I'm assuming he's watched a lot of tape of Polish Basketball.