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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBrowns View Post
    What is your definition of "contribute" for a PF or C? To me, a Big that can provide some defensive rebounding, altering a few shots, and giving some rest to MP2/3 sure could come in handy next year. I don't think you have to be a top 25 recruit to be able to provide that level of contribution as a freshman. Say 8-10 minutes/ 4-6 boards/ and a put-back or two seems reasonable to me.

    I wonder how many of FSU's bigs were top 100 recruits? Not trying to be "snarky", just thinking out loud.
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I dont think Duke goes after another big. A freshman big man not ranked in the top 100 likely would not see the court at all. Marshall was top 100 and he redshirted this year. I think to the extent we changed things up late in the recruiting process this year, it was to go after Amile who is a top 25 guy. If we cannot get Amile or Tony Parker, I'd rather wait for the 2013 kids and not give a scholarship to a kid who is unlikely to play.
    I agree with superdave. Kelly was a top 20 recruit and averaged 1.2 ppg and 1.1 rpg in 6.5 min (which excludes the 5 games he played zero minutes) as a freshman. Big men typically take a bit longer to get up to college speed than guards since in high school their size completely hides other deficiencies in their games. Definitely save the scholarship for the next year; the players we currently have would be sufficient for the 4/5 spots and somebody outside the top 100 would be very unlikely to crack the rotation at all. 4-6 rebounds in 8-10 minutes is asking way too much. Kelly averages 5.4 rebounds THIS YEAR in 26 mpg (3.7 last year).

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I dont think Duke goes after another big. A freshman big man not ranked in the top 100 likely would not see the court at all. Marshall was top 100 and he redshirted this year. I think to the extent we changed things up late in the recruiting process this year, it was to go after Amile who is a top 25 guy. If we cannot get Amile or Tony Parker, I'd rather wait for the 2013 kids and not give a scholarship to a kid who is unlikely to play.

    If Ryan plays the 5 for 30 minutes a game, and Marshall spells him for 10 minutes. We're good at the 5. If Alex starts at the 4 and splits time with Josh in some way, we're fine at the 4. That's not substantially different from our 4-5 rotation this year, actually.
    Except that, Ryan isnt a 5. In fact, he seen as a stretch 4, meaning a 4 who feels more comfortable on the perimeter. In that sense, im not wild about him playing 30 minutes at an unnatural position, i.e the 5.

    The same goes for Alex. Wasn't he recruited as a SF? I guess I could see him playing the stretch 4, but it seems to me kids prefer to play and are better at the position they are recruited for. Hopefully Alex welcomes the challenge of playing the 4 and excels at it until he can return to his more natural position (ala kyle).

    Im not saying Duke should use a scholly on a kid who in a normal year wouldnt see the court. I just think that if Duke cant get more than 10 minutes out of Marshall at the 5, we're in trouble. Similarly, I hope Josh is ready to play substantial minutes at the 4 and possibly start, because we're going to need him I think.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Just guessing

    Quote Originally Posted by jennja01 View Post
    Except that, Ryan isnt a 5. In fact, he seen as a stretch 4, meaning a 4 who feels more comfortable on the perimeter. In that sense, im not wild about him playing 30 minutes at an unnatural position, i.e the 5.

    The same goes for Alex. Wasn't he recruited as a SF? I guess I could see him playing the stretch 4, but it seems to me kids prefer to play and are better at the position they are recruited for. Hopefully Alex welcomes the challenge of playing the 4 and excels at it until he can return to his more natural position (ala kyle).

    Im not saying Duke should use a scholly on a kid who in a normal year wouldnt see the court. I just think that if Duke cant get more than 10 minutes out of Marshall at the 5, we're in trouble. Similarly, I hope Josh is ready to play substantial minutes at the 4 and possibly start, because we're going to need him I think.
    Coach K has never recruited me, but I'm willing to bet that he simply recruit players as basketball players, and not for specific positions. I will concede that the coaching staff probably tells players how they would like to use them, especially on offense. But I don't think that means that the players are recruited for specific positions.

    Ryan could play 5, on defense. On offense, he would create severe matchup problems for the other team.

    Back to the topic of recruiting: I doubt Duke goes after anyone else if Jefferson and Parker don't decide to play for the greatest coach still coaching.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by jennja01 View Post
    Except that, Ryan isnt a 5. In fact, he seen as a stretch 4, meaning a 4 who feels more comfortable on the perimeter. In that sense, im not wild about him playing 30 minutes at an unnatural position, i.e the 5.
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Ryan could play 5, on defense. On offense, he would create severe matchup problems for the other team.
    I think Ryan could play the 5 on the defensive end pretty well. He's got good footwork and has the ability to block shots without fouling. I am concerned with his rebounding though. I do not entirely know what to expect from Marshall but he's a natural 5. I think we're good on defense with those two.

    At the 4, Coach K has said he expects Alex to be a 4 year starter. I'll take that. With Josh plugging in at the 4-5 for 17-20 minutes, I think we'll have a good rotation. I think we will create a lot of matchup problems for other teams with Ryan and Alex, but rebounding is the concern.

    As for the remaining big guys who are uncommitted in the Class of 2012, here's the list -
    Center
    http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75...yr=2012&cfg=bb
    PF
    http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75...pid=44&yr=2012

    Who on these two lists should we pursue outside of Parker and Jefferson?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Orleans, LA

    Who Commits First?

    If Duke ends up with only one remaining scholarship to offer either Shabazz or Amile, how does that work? Does it depend who commits first? Or, is the a priority assigned to scholarships?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBrowns View Post
    So if Duke fails to secure commits from Parker, Jefferson, or Shabazz, does anyone think or have knowledge that Duke would target a "PF-C" prospect outside of the top 100? Just wondering what "bigs" were left out there uncommited? I think sometimes the power of a body that gives "5 hard fouls" and clog the lane on defense is underestimated. Thoughts?
    Last time I checked I was outside the top 100 and I still have 4 years of eligibility. I'm considered a big in the space-eater sense, I've got 5 fouls to give and I'm not afraid to use them. If any of you insiders have K's ear please ask his people to call my people

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    You wind up with only one scholarship and you can get two of 2012's top players what would you do? I bet that Calipari/ol Roy would suddenly have transfers like ld2, and the wearing thin twins? Don't forget that it's a BIG business with millions at stake. We probably have too much integrity for the "transfer" approach, though. Funny how they became two of the top teams in the country.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Northern VA
    Quote Originally Posted by luman50 View Post
    If Duke ends up with only one remaining scholarship to offer either Shabazz or Amile, how does that work? Does it depend who commits first? Or, is the a priority assigned to scholarships?
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    You wind up with only one scholarship and you can get two of 2012's top players what would you do? I bet that Calipari/ol Roy would suddenly have transfers like ld2, and the wearing thin twins? Don't forget that it's a BIG business with millions at stake. We probably have too much integrity for the "transfer" approach, though. Funny how they became two of the top teams in the country.
    First off, it is up to K and staff how/to whom they allocate scholarships - so no hard, fast (NCAA) rule. Some coaches, including just down the road a few miles, will offer a single scholarship to three or more guys and say "first-one-to-commit gets it..." That has not generally been K's style, and I suspect he doesn't think well of the practice.

    Secondly, as has been discussed on these boards ad nauseum, there's more than one way to skin this "limited scholarships" cat: (1) More players than just MP1 could leave (for the pros, such as MP2 or AR); (2) Someone might transfer; (3) Someone else might give up their scholarship in order to accomodate the extra recruit (this has been done before at Duke in the generous personage of one Lee Melchioni, who gave up the first year of his scholarship so Duke could bring an extra recruit); (4) Would never happen at Duke, though Calimari did it - a staff can rescind scholarships to existing player(s). (They have to be renewed by the school annually.)


    Quote Originally Posted by jennja01 View Post
    I'm probably in the minority and probably gonna catch some heat for this, but i guess we're all entitled to our own opinion. I just dont see Ryan at the 5, especially on defense/rebounds. Offensively, he likes to hang on the perimeter at that stretch 4 and has that good stroke from deep to make him a problem for other teams. That being said, he has shown, IMO, more crafty moves on the block than say either of the plumlees. he shown some good ball/head fake moves and a good drop step/step under move to get past an undisciplined/over-aggressive defender which is good if he's gonna play the 5, but i still think he's more polished/comfortable at that stretch 4 position Coach likes to have. As i mentioned earlier, im more concerned defensively and with rebounding if hes at the 5. Hes got good size (6-11, 230), but hes not a great athlete both vertically and laterally, as we've seen countless times this year (and please dont get mad at me for saying that, but we've all seen it and sometimes the truth hurts). Without great leaping ability and lateral mobility, I think he might struggle defending opposing 5's, especially teams who use their 5's as their first option. Same goes for rebounding. I mean, at 6-11, 230 with his basketball IQ, you'd think he'd be able to grab more than 5 and a half rebounds a game like he is this season except i think he's held back by his athletic ability. I'm not sure those numbers are gonna improve if he's playing the 5 (or even the 4 for that matter) next season. Even though he's struggled at times this year, I think he's more fit to defend the 4. He shown he's got a knack for coming from the weakside to help and get a block on the shot or draw a charge. anyway just my 2 cents sorry if i offended anyone just trying to voice some concerns/opinions.
    I too have voiced concern, as MP3 and RK are less than "sure things" to adequately man the 5. I would think, if MP1 and MP2 were both gone, the first hope would be for MP3 to step in. To that end, I hope that he's added some meat and muscle and aggressiveness around the bucket, as he was manhandled more than once by other D1 caliber 5's during his Senior HS year. (Even though he's my favorite Duke player currently) RK as the primary 5, and w/o any overly big or athletic (read "rebound oriented") F's beside him, would leave a few vulnerrabilities up front. But I think this is starting to get too far afield from the central 2012 recruiting string.


    To the other questioners, at this very late date it would be unusual in the extreme for Duke to get involved with another big-man recruit. I just don't see it happening. Either we land AJ to hopefully help along the frontline OR we just make due. That said, I am one of those whose recently come arouind to the view that MP2 may actually be staying another year... Fingers crossed big-time!!
    Last edited by -bdbd; 03-16-2012 at 01:54 AM.
    -BDBD

  9. #49
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBrowns View Post
    What is your definition of "contribute" for a PF or C? To me, a Big that can provide some defensive rebounding, altering a few shots, and giving some rest to MP2/3 sure could come in handy next year. I don't think you have to be a top 25 recruit to be able to provide that level of contribution as a freshman. Say 8-10 minutes/ 4-6 boards/ and a put-back or two seems reasonable to me.
    There is little chance that a freshman who was ranked outside the top 100 could get 8 to 10 minutes at Duke. Michael Gbinije barely plays and he was top 30. Four to six rebounds is even more unlikely -- 6 rebounds a game would rank that person 3rd on this year's team! Your expectations for this hypothetical recruit are completely unreasonable.

    Even if Mason and Austin leave early and we don't get any more recruits for next year, there will be at least two really good players who don't play much, at least in competitive games. There is no need to bring in another body, especially one who would clog up a scholarship for four years.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC

    Desmond Hubert at Unc

    6'9'' - 200lbs. Ranked #140 by Rivals. Not ranked in the RSCI or by Scout and Espn from what I saw.

    He has played 113 minutes so far this year and scored a total of 17 points ad grabbed 36 rebounds.

    Is that worth throwing a late scholarship out there? I say no.

    Parker is the only option at the 5 that we could potentially get this year. Otherwise it's Ryan and Marshall at the 5, whether we agree or not.

    If Amile comes, does that not likely mean even more minutes at the 5 for Ryan since the 4 would be more crowded?

  11. #51
    With Sulaimon, I have high hopes for him based on what I've heard about his game. But I was just pointing out the perceived lack of a go-to man on next year's team if Rivers goes and Muhammad doesn't come, and I wouldn't assume Sulaimon is going to rectify that, at least not right away. Even a player who ended up as good as Nolan Smith didn't begin to pay dividends until his junior year. And though J.J. Redick was an immediate contributor, he wasn't The Man until his junior year. It takes a truly elite player to be that sort of difference-maker immediately; Kyrie and Austin qualified, and having seen him in person, I can safely say Muhammad does as well. It'd be an amazing upset if Sulaimon was THAT sort of player right away.

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    TWEEEETT!!! TWEEEETT!!! TWEEEETT!!!

    These posts have nothing to do with 2012 Recruiting. -- sage
    With all due respect -- because you are technically right -- I was discussing my impressions next year's team if Duke doesn't land 2012 recruit Shabazz Muhammad. I actually was trying to steer it on topic -- i.e. what the team would look like if a recruit did or didn't come, which I find highly relevant. There's only so much you can say about Muhammad, Jefferson and Parker themselves, and I didn't see a dedicated thread for this sort of discussion. (That said, I'd be happy to shelve it for -- hopefully!!! -- a couple of weeks until the requisite threads are available...)

  12. #52
    what happened last night will not help recruiting........you can carry that to the bank...........

  13. #53
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by stixof96 View Post
    what happened last night will not help recruiting........you can carry that to the bank...........
    Guys see opportunity. At least the good ones do.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by stixof96 View Post
    what happened last night will not help recruiting........you can carry that to the bank...........
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Guys see opportunity. At least the good ones do.

    FWIW, Jason Jordon, recruiting analyst for ESPN who seems to be very close to a number of recruits (TP, Randle, Sulimon etc), tweeted something along the lines of:

    "a recruit just texted me this: 'Duke lost? thats not a good look to me J'. (to which Jason added something along the lines of) 'this stuff matters to recruits'"

    no point really in speculating who texted him that, coulda been anyone, but I think i have a pretty good idea of who....

    either way, i think its important to note that stuff like that does matter to recruits. I know theyre only 17-18 years old and therefore dont make the most rational decisions always, but i can see a recruit thinking "why would i want to waste my talents at a school that loses to lehigh in the first round". conversely there are probably some recruits who look at it as "wow, that team could really use me, I could shine there!"

  15. #55
    A true top notch player would relish the opportunity to take a team from the lowest of the low, to a championship. Shabazz now has the opportunity to be a legend at Duke rather than just another top one and done guy.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by mapleleafdevil View Post
    A true top notch player would relish the opportunity to take a team from the lowest of the low, to a championship. Shabazz now has the opportunity to be a legend at Duke rather than just another top one and done guy.
    I agree, but the same argument could be made for the other schools on his list. Imagine being the hometown hero to bring UNLV back to the top of college bball. or UCLA, which has had a rough go of things lately. or he could go down in history as the guy who brought Kentucky back to back championships, if they win it this year, after losing all that talent to the nba. While i think Duke has a better chance next year to win it all than those other schools, its still a possibility anywhere.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by mapleleafdevil View Post
    A true top notch player would relish the opportunity to take a team from the lowest of the low, to a championship. Shabazz now has the opportunity to be a legend at Duke rather than just another top one and done guy.
    The best of these guys, especially the prospective one and dones, want to play with other great players and play in a Final Four to compete for a championship. It's why Harrison Barnes decided not to stay in Iowa but play with guys like Zeller and Henson (or maybe at Duke had Kyle not been ahead of him on the depth chart). It's why Austin was so beside himself last night in shock that he would not be competing in a Final Four this year.

    If Austin and Mason come back, then Bazz coming to Duke would (1) fill a hole in the starting five and (2) get to play with other great players and (3) have the highest chance at competing for a national championship. With Austin, Mason and Bazz and Coach K obviously Duke would be a favorite to go all the way.

    I think Quinn and MP3 will end up being a great true 1-true 5 combination, and with both of them more experienced and Quinn's knee hopefully at full strength next year, we could be loaded for bear.

    I think if Austin and Mason both leave, then Duke may be less attractive for a guy like Bazz.

  18. #58
    Join Date
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Folks, you were warned, so don't be shocked when you wake up tomorrow with an infraction pm. If your post is not about 2012 recruiting, it will be deleted, every single time. Want to discuss next year's team, or Ryan at the 5, or Murph at the 4, or Austin's presser, start your own thread. This one is for 2012 recruiting.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  19. #59
    At this point, do we even really want Parker? Of course having a load in the middle would be nice to have, but the way he seems to carry himself and treat this process as if its some kind of Tony Parker sweepstakes doesn't exactly endear me to the kid. I wonder how the coaches feel about it. Clearly they actually know him and presumably know him well since we've been recruiting him hard and for a long time, but they can't exactly be thrilled about the way he talks about Duke publicly.
    I'd still be thrilled to have him to add to the depth of next year's front line, especially if we can get a 2 in 2 out situation like we did in 2010 with Mason and Ryan Starting then trade in MP3 and Tony after a few minutes with Tony to operate in the post and Marshall to do the screening and trying to grab boards.

    I really think that with Jefferson, Shabazz, and Parker, they're all going to wait to see who leaves and who stays because they all want to play immediately. Shabazz less so, cause he's going to start, but if Austin's there (known ball stopper) he may be less willing to come, but I sense that Jefferson either wants to fill the gap Calvin Leslie leaves at state or the one Mason leaves (different style) at Duke, and Parker wants Duke to change everything about the program to appease him, but he really doesn't want to have to sit behind Kelly Mason and battle for time with the likes of Marshall and Hairston.

    Shabazz fills our needs the most I think and will do so immediately, seeing as we have no proven player at the actual 3 spot, despite how hopeful we are for Murph/Silent G to be players. Again, if Bazz comes, he's starting.

  20. #60
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    Nov 2010
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    Durham

    Noel

    Nerlens is reportedly down to Syracuse, KY, and Georgetown. He had been considering UNC. Thankfully we won't have to face him twice during our Tobacco Road matchups.

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