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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Triangle
    http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/03/a...eason-at-duke/ I had a recent one on one with Alex Murphy and he seems to be fine with the decision to redshirt him but it is tough not playing for a kid who has never sat out a season.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by watzone View Post
    http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/03/a...eason-at-duke/ I had a recent one on one with Alex Murphy and he seems to be fine with the decision to redshirt him but it is tough not playing for a kid who has never sat out a season.
    Seems like he sees the benefit of redshirting, while also believing he could have helped at different times this year- which I would agree with.

    Over the next 4 years though, I believe we will be very happy that Alex redshirted. I loved hearing from him and seeing his perspective. He's got the mindset of a Duke player. Thanks, Mark!

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    The 15 straight misses were really unexplainable. It was just one of those things that happen...
    it's actually really easy to explain: clusters happen in random sequences. We missed a lot of good shots. Your explanation is perfect: it's just one of those things that happens.

    Take a look at the two images in this article without reading the text:

    http://www.billthelizard.com/2009/05...generator.html

    which one is random?

    Or you could say we as a team were cold. Whatever -- in either case, it doesn't mean that the team didn't put in effort. They were executing the offense reasonably well, and just not making the open shots. Meanwhile Carolina was making shots like henson's ridiculously awkward running left handed hook shot over Miles. It happens. I'm certainly not saying Duke played error free, but sometimes the shots just don't fall.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieTiger View Post
    Seems like he sees the benefit of redshirting, while also believing he could have helped at different times this year- which I would agree with.

    Over the next 4 years though, I believe we will be very happy that Alex redshirted. I loved hearing from him and seeing his perspective. He's got the mindset of a Duke player. Thanks, Mark!
    Agreed. At this point, unless the coaching staff thought Alex would be the difference between winning a national championship and not winning it (and it seems extremely unlikely that they do, IMHO), it seems like giving up the redshirt would be a bad choice for both player and team.

  5. #65

    Alex and Michael

    This decision to red shirt Alex and play Michael only very limited minutes seems to go hand in hand. Both players would have gotten a lot of PT at other smaller programs and lord knows, we really have needed a solid small forward. They really would have competed with Andre for PT. That said, coach K must feel neither is ready for major program NCAA div I basketball. He sees them every day and we don't, so we have to abide by his judgment.

    We have been guessing at what the roster will look like next year. With so few leaving, it seems like these kids will be facing the same up hill battle for PT next year as well. I wish the best for them.

    At least Marshall knows a spot will be open for him next year.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    it's actually really easy to explain: clusters happen in random sequences. We missed a lot of good shots. Your explanation is perfect: it's just one of those things that happens.
    Mathematically this makes sense, but I don't think that missed shots are just purely random. Several of our inside shots were bothered by Henson's presence, even if he didn't block it you could tell that our guys knew he was there and it affected them. Once we fell into a big hole, shots can become harder to make because we're pressing, or nervous about falling behind even more. Conversely, when you've got a big lead and are playing relaxed, it's easier to toss in a crazy shot and have it fall because you don't really care if you miss.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cali

    Gbinije and Cook

    Gbinije pretty much wasted the season not getting any serious playing time, it felt like he was getting red shirt.

    Cook could have used an injury red shirt to get his knee right.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Mathematically this makes sense, but I don't think that missed shots are just purely random. Several of our inside shots were bothered by Henson's presence, even if he didn't block it you could tell that our guys knew he was there and it affected them. Once we fell into a big hole, shots can become harder to make because we're pressing, or nervous about falling behind even more. Conversely, when you've got a big lead and are playing relaxed, it's easier to toss in a crazy shot and have it fall because you don't really care if you miss.
    It seems like people keep framing this debate as if it has to be one or the other. Making shots is either a factor of focus and heart, or it is purely a factor of statistical fluctuations. Wouldn't it make sense to simply say that both are a factor? And they are each a factor to an extent which varies at different times?

    Basically, I would argue that shooting is a complicated process. There is a lot that goes into the ultimate odds of making any given shot: the defender's proximity, height, and hand-placement; the shooter's talent, height, sight lines, and psychological constitution; the type of shot; the crowd's influence; and, of course, random chance. To make matters worse, the amount of influence carried by each of these factors changes with every shot. No wonder people have such a hard time deciding why a particular shot just didn't drop.

    As for the UNC debacle, I felt like once we missed a few early, we did psych ourselves out a little. Things began to seem rushed, even nervy. That nervousness made each of the following shots less likely to swish (though still possible), and that combined with some bad luck led to our prolonged drought. At least, that's my take. Others are free to disagree.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  9. #69
    So is there any info on Alex and Marshall's progress this year as players while practicing with the team?

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post
    Gbinije pretty much wasted the season not getting any serious playing time, it felt like he was getting red shirt.

    Cook could have used an injury red shirt to get his knee right.
    I too would have like to see G get more burn, but then compare his Fr #'s to Josh's Fr #'s .. were they all that dissimilar?
    I think Q was an insurance policy to stay active and get minutes in the event of multiple injuries.

    As for Cook, he had some brilliant moments. Nice moves, added lift to the team. However, something in his body language made me think he was still favoring his knee... at least mentally.. I think having a pre-season to actively participate will help him more than anything. The biggest key element missing is someone who can make an effective entry pass to the Big in the right position to execute. Having a passer like a Marshall would have made it look like Miles and Mason took quantum leaps in their post development.

  11. #71
    When we're discussing this, remember that redshirting was Alex Murphy's idea. Not only that, it was expressed intention when he decided to come to Duke early— http://dukechronicle.com/article/mur...-redshirt-year
    Trinity 2012, University of Michigan (PhD) 2017
    Duke Chronicle, Sports Online Editor: 2010-2012
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chill View Post
    Gbinije pretty much wasted the season not getting any serious playing time . . . .
    Really? Wasted the season? What do you think he was doing in practice? In the weight room? Do you only improve in games?
    "Just like you man. I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase." Omar Little

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Maybe redshirting is the right thing for a couple of hypothetical reasons. One if the player you thought you recruited isn't ready in ability or strength or in the other case maybe the year redshirting will help him improve so much that a player (let's call this one Murphy) will need only one or two years at the college level to be able to make mega bucks at the next level.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    Maybe redshirting is the right thing for a couple of hypothetical reasons. One if the player you thought you recruited isn't ready in ability or strength or in the other case maybe the year redshirting will help him improve so much that a player (let's call this one Murphy) will need only one or two years at the college level to be able to make mega bucks at the next level.
    Well, okay, but if you aren't at least thinking about using all four years of your eligibility, why not just take that first year as an occasional sub instead of a redshirt? Would the redshirt make a big difference in the way you were perceived by NBA scouts, and if so, why?

    Re your first reason, obviously a possibility--I think it's important to remember, though, that in Murphy's case his concussion in practice seemed to be a big piece of the puzzle. It set him back at a crucial time and appeared to play a pretty big role in what was billed as a mutual decision (initiated by Murphy) to go with the redshirt.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    Maybe redshirting is the right thing for a couple of hypothetical reasons. One if the player you thought you recruited isn't ready in ability or strength or in the other case maybe the year redshirting will help him improve so much that a player (let's call this one Murphy) will need only one or two years at the college level to be able to make mega bucks at the next level.
    I'm not really sure I see this as a reason to redshirt. In that scenario, you're still in college for 2-3 years (just playing 1-2 years). If you're planning to leave in 2-3 years, why not just play as a freshman? There's nothing you can't do as a player that you can do as a redshirt, so redshirting doesn't really provide benefit in that scenario.

    The redshirt seems applicable only in a situation where a player is seriously considering the possibility of playing for 4 years in college, but isn't ready physically (likely applicable as Murphy was pretty skinny) or is so far buried in the rotation that he isn't going to get minutes (not applicable).

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by RepoMan View Post
    Really? Wasted the season? What do you think he was doing in practice? In the weight room? Do you only improve in games?
    While I don't really agree with the argument that he wasted the season, Gbinije would still have been able to do all the things you cite as a red shirt.

  17. #77

    Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    While I don't really agree with the argument that he wasted the season, Gbinije would still have been able to do all the things you cite as a red shirt.
    By these standards I'm starting to think that some believe that if you aren't a freshman that can come in and make an immediate impact then you should redshirt. What happened to a freshman just being a freshman? Do any of you realize that most freshman around the country have minimal impact or get minimal playing time. Let's not get carried away with our expectations for these young men. Mike G did exactly what he was supposed to. Came in, played hard, and began his improvement as a college bball player.

    I guess this is all a product of the one-and-done way of thinking where we all think every freshman will come in and contribute in some way.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DeBlueDevil View Post
    By these standards I'm starting to think that some believe that if you aren't a freshman that can come in and make an immediate impact then you should redshirt. What happened to a freshman just being a freshman? Do any of you realize that most freshman around the country have minimal impact or get minimal playing time. Let's not get carried away with our expectations for these young men. Mike G did exactly what he was supposed to. Came in, played hard, and began his improvement as a college bball player.

    I guess this is all a product of the one-and-done way of thinking where we all think every freshman will come in and contribute in some way.
    You responded to me, but I wasn't arguing that Gbinije wasted the season. I specifically said "I don't really agree with the argument that he wasted the season".

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by DeBlueDevil View Post
    By these standards I'm starting to think that some believe that if you aren't a freshman that can come in and make an immediate impact then you should redshirt. What happened to a freshman just being a freshman? Do any of you realize that most freshman around the country have minimal impact or get minimal playing time. Let's not get carried away with our expectations for these young men. Mike G did exactly what he was supposed to. Came in, played hard, and began his improvement as a college bball player.

    I guess this is all a product of the one-and-done way of thinking where we all think every freshman will come in and contribute in some way.
    The "redshirt freshman" is already the model at most BCS football programs. And Cut has Duke doing it now (or "finally" as some see it).

    Could the redshirt freshman have a place in basketball? I imagine top programs could use some 5 year leaders to help direct and anchor the one-and-dones. Is this K on the cutting edge again?

    -jk

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    You responded to me, but I wasn't arguing that Gbinije wasted the season. I specifically said "I don't really agree with the argument that he wasted the season".
    My apologies. I wasn't particularly trying to respond right to you. I just hit the respond with quote button. But I do get the feeling that some are starting to change the way they think about incoming freshman and the expectations we should have due to this one and done type of world we live in now was my main point.

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