MBB: UNC-Chapel Hill 88, Duke 70, Post-Game Thread

[guybrush]

http://www.dailybasket.it/ncaa/acc-n...egular-season/

[mcdukie]

The bottom line is that UNC's starting five is much more talented than Duke's. Nothing more really needs to be said. They have 3 or 4 guys who will be drafted ahead of any Duke player. Coach K is the best in the country at getting the most out of his teams and that is honestly the only reason we had a chance this game and beat them the first time.

Throw everything else out the window, this is the bottom line. Their talent is superior to ours. They have 4 or 5 definite pros and are bringing in more next year. Our second half play shows we can play with them but we had to work so hard to get good looks compared to the shots they were taking.

[devildeac]

Interesting quote from Miles from Jim Sumner's article on the Home Page:

Miles Plumlee sees his college career coming to an end and he wants to see an attitude adjustment. “When we show up, I believe this team is as good as anyone in the country. We’re a younger team and throughout the year, we’ve been a little immature. We always want to see how little we can do to win. We need to fight like we did at times tonight for the rest of the season.”

The bolded part of his quote is somewhat worrisome/bothersome. What do you do about that if you're the staff? What do you do about that if you're the players? What do the captains do about that? Is it a practice issue? Is it a game/performance issue?

[Buckeye Devil]

Well let's see. I grew up in Georgia.

Let me make clear that my EA obsession is a schtick. On the record, I trumpet her comeliness. Off the record, I tell my wife, damn, that girl has a big nose and a New England accent and roots showing...It's cool to be brunette, almost everyone over 30 is. But EA ain't foolin no one with that dye job. EA ain't "EA" is one way to say it.

And yet, she's rather compelling.

Women are women. They are to be appreciated. They're fantastic. I am sort of a male lesbian.

But to answer your question, no, I think by some scientific mean of measuring people's features and comparing them to .7 ratios, no, EA is not that hot. The paradox is that she's way hotter than that.

My wife is from Georgia. Hmm. Check Facebook. She's high quality.

I got dissed after the first UNC game after mentioning EA's roots. I was faulted for looking at her roots instead of other comely parts. Glad to see it bothers someone else too. Blond or brunette, she is still hot and puts to shame anything I ever dated.

[dukelifer]

Yeah, except Duke has had three teams lose that last regular season game and still make the NCAA tournament final, so I'd say your tidbit is really the function of (a) teams that win the national championship are likely to be better than their rival and thus should have won in the last regular season game; and (b) too small a sample size to draw any legitimate conclusions.

Better than their rival is perhaps a bit too strong. Usually the teams are pretty close to each other- at least in terms of rankings and several of these games have been close- like 2005. In 2001, Duke was coming off the loss of Boozer and rallied as a team and beat UNC at UNC and then UNC when spiraled out of control with the Forte-poisoned locker-room. In some cases, the winner was simply better- like in 2009 and 2010. Duke and UNC have been two of the most successful teams in college bball and this last rivalry game can give a team confidence. 2001 is the best example and one might argue that UNC's last second win in 2005 was another. As you and others have pointed out- there is no causality here- and may simply reflect how close the rivalry has been - but the winner can get a real boost from winning this last game. Sports is a lot more than just stats. Team confidence can turn on a dime.

[Matches]

I got dissed after the first UNC game after mentioning EA's roots. I was faulted for looking at her roots instead of other comely parts. Glad to see it bothers someone else too. Blond or brunette, she is still hot and puts to shame anything I ever dated.

So we let down Erin Andrews, AND Brooklyn Decker was trash-talking us on Twitter. Not our night with gorgeous women, it seems.

[MCFinARL]

Actually there were 5. One was a junior, the others freshmen and sophs. These guys were good players but weren't exactly the same type of McD's that a program like Kentucky brings in. Our pf was 6-6 210lbs. Our best perimeter threat was Greg Paulus (who was far better from outside his junior year). With freshman Zoubek battling injuries, McRoberts was the only real option underneath. Gerald Henderson had a very limited role at the time. DeMarcus Nelson was our best overall player, but not a big threat from outside. There was no room for error for that team and there were matchup disadvantages almost every night. K did some serious coaching that season. It was also one of the youngest Duke rosters ever. I would venture to say that a vast majority of coaches would not have gotten that team into the ncaat. We have seen greater teams fail getting there not including UNC. And that is why I'm calling it a tremendous accomplishment.

I'm off topic, sorry. What this relates to is it typifies what K can use as strengths to overcome weaknesses. Obviously he isn't the only coach to do this, but he is very, very consistent about it. For this team to even be in the conversation of a number 1 seed after losing its two best players (2 All-American caliber players) from the season before and replacing them with a freshman is pretty amazing.

My bad--it was late, I looked up the roster from 2007-08 by accident instead of 2006-07, and I was too tired to notice my error. And I see your points about having to fit together some limited pieces, and about how a lot of the talent on the team was young. Really, the whole roster was young, even by comparison to this year (where the issue is not so much absolute youth as relative inexperience in being leaders rather than role players). I think I still see 6 McD's on the 2007 team, though--Nelson, Paulus, McRoberts, Henderson, Scheyer, Thomas.

Maybe I am spoiled and just expect that every Duke team will make the NCAA as a sort of baseline goal. And that's undoubtedly not fair. If I tend to think that, say, winning the championship with the 2010 roster was a more impressive accomplishment than getting to the tournament with the 2007 roster, that certainly doesn't mean both weren't excellent coaching jobs. And I completely agree with the statement I bolded in your post--for this particular team to have gotten to the place it has in the seeding discussion is really impressive (plus, although it's true one of them didn't play much, Duke actually lost its three best players from last year's team, not two). I'm not unwilling to question some of Coach K's little decisions here and there (probably unwisely, out of ignorance rather than wisdom), but I certainly don't question his overall skill in putting together strong, competitive teams out of a wide variety of pieces.

[grossbus]

it astounds me that we apparently cannot defend marshall. he goes by everyone we put on him.

[ChicagoHeel]

Congrats to Miles. He went out in an impressive manner. Didn't like to see him choking up on the bench at the end, but I was impressed how he fought the whole way. I also have to give a lot of credit to K's post-game press conference. I think most rational UNC fans don't like, but respect Coach K, and his highly gracious press conference is part of the reason we can't help but respect him.

As for the game itself, we've been waiting all year for our team to find another gear and last night they did. It was just an outstanding performance at both ends of the floor. I really liked the way our bigs hedged out and made things tougher on your guards. Bullock's O and D was another key for the game. Overall, our offensive efficiency put a lot of pressure on your offense to keep up, which I think is part of the reason you shot poorly. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. I just hope we can maintain our focus and edge going forward; that we can continue to play angry because it certainly seemed to help a lot in this game.

I don't think we learned anything new about Duke. Your D is just not that good, which means you can lose to any talented team. We scored 40 in the second half when we were clearly playing stall ball. As others have pointed out, you can also beat anyone too. It will be very hard to predict how you guys will do in each game from the sweet sixteen forward- I can imagine a blowout in either direction.

[shereec]

Obviously, we had some important guests in the house tonight.

A question for someone smarter than I on this subject... What kind of impact would a game like this have on a potential recruit?

Hopefully they noted that the crowd was loud and with the team until the bitter end. Any games they may have attended in CH sounded like a crowd at a tennis match...

[HateCarolina]

Y'all really think she's that hot? Come to Atlanta sometime.

EA is indeed hot, the fact that she's a court side sports announcer/reporter has a lot to do with it too. That being said I live in Atlanta (ITP too) and she would still turn heads on Peachtree, in Lenox/Phipps, or any other locale you would expect the ATL hotness.

[HateCarolina]

Hopefully they noted that the crowd was loud and with the team until the bitter end. Any games they may have attended in CH sounded like a crowd at a tennis match...

Very well said. Awesome!!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Excellent game prep/ game management from Roy Williams. One of the best coaches in the country and this game showed it. He builds teams to have balance, and last night trouble for Duke came from everywhere on the floor.

Defense. UNC defended with focus, something that was not always the case this season. A really good defensive team when they committ to it.

Marshall could not be contained off the dribble, made good decisions and finished when he needed to. A key to the game for sure.

Anyone still doubt Zeller as ACC POY?

Henson is the latest testament to how big men improve during their stay at UNC. Should he decide to stay next season, he'll lead NPOY preseason talk.

Duke played hard, no-one should question their effort. It was just a night where some weakness was exposed, mainly rebounding, but also at the 3 spot.

UNC forced Duke to try and beat them from inside the 3pt line, and Duke came up just 18 pts short in this one.

[oldnavy]

Congrats to Miles. He went out in an impressive manner. Didn't like to see him choking up on the bench at the end, but I was impressed how he fought the whole way. I also have to give a lot of credit to K's post-game press conference. I think most rational UNC fans don't like, but respect Coach K, and his highly gracious press conference is part of the reason we can't help but respect him.

As for the game itself, we've been waiting all year for our team to find another gear and last night they did. It was just an outstanding performance at both ends of the floor. I really liked the way our bigs hedged out and made things tougher on your guards. Bullock's O and D was another key for the game. Overall, our offensive efficiency put a lot of pressure on your offense to keep up, which I think is part of the reason you shot poorly. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. I just hope we can maintain our focus and edge going forward; that we can continue to play angry because it certainly seemed to help a lot in this game.

I don't think we learned anything new about Duke. Your D is just not that good, which means you can lose to any talented team. We scored 40 in the second half when we were clearly playing stall ball. As others have pointed out, you can also beat anyone too. It will be very hard to predict how you guys will do in each game from the sweet sixteen forward- I can imagine a blowout in either direction.

At one point in the first half I almost started laughing. It might have been the point where we missed 15 straight shots. My point is it was just one of those nights. UNC was HOT and by that I mean shots that really should not go in were going in (straight ahead bank shots from13 feet, Henson running 12 foot side armed hook shot). Nothing against UNC, it happens and has happened to us in the past. At the same time shots for us that should go in were rimming out all over the place (layups, open 3's, reverse layups, etc...). Again, it happens and has happened to UNC at times as well.

BUT when the two events converge at the same time... well it becomes surreal and you can either laugh or cry. I chose to laugh...
UNC is a better team than Duke. I hurts me to say that, but they are. They deserved to win last night, and I congratulate their team and fan base on a well fought game and victory.

It doesn't change my mind about Roy or UNC in general (I think UNC is about 80% of what they should be), but we should give credit where credit is due.

If we play UNC again, we will have to be A LOT more aggressive on the boards (the rebounding in the first half to me was as much a reason we lost as the shots not going in) and in driving to the basket.

Congrats to Chicagoheel and Wheat on a big game and the regular season title... you earned it.

[cspan37421]

Interesting quote from Miles from Jim Sumner's article on the Home Page:

Miles Plumlee sees his college career coming to an end and he wants to see an attitude adjustment. “When we show up, I believe this team is as good as anyone in the country. We’re a younger team and throughout the year, we’ve been a little immature. We always want to see how little we can do to win. We need to fight like we did at times tonight for the rest of the season.”

The bolded part of his quote is somewhat worrisome/bothersome. What do you do about that if you're the staff? What do you do about that if you're the players? What do the captains do about that? Is it a practice issue? Is it a game/performance issue?

If that quote is accurate, it's utterly damning, yet would explain a great deal of what we've seen this season in both wins and losses. I cannot imagine that that represents the kind of attitude that our coaches want for ANYONE on our team. I would be tearing my hair out. After 30+ games, if that's still the prevailing attitude, it's hard to honestly have high expectations - only high hopes. And the first hope would be that that attitude changes. It seems like it's getting late for that.

I saw some quote this week - maybe in a sports magazine, some player's dad told them, "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." A bit of a platitude, but sometimes true.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Congrats to Chicagoheel and Wheat on a big game and the regular season title... you earned it.

Thanks for the kind thought, but I'm under no illusion that my interest in the teams play has anything to do with anything. All credit goes to the coaches and players, good or bad

[oldnavy]

Thanks for the kind thought, but I'm under no illusion that my interest in the teams play has anything to do with anything. All credit goes to the coaches and players, good or bad

Well I know YOU didn't earn it, but I was lumping you in with the team and fanbase. I refer to Duke all the time as "we" which I understand some people find silly, but when you put as much emotional capital as I have into a team for 45 years I do feel like I am part of that team.

So in this case when I say you deserve it, I mean the UNC team and fanbase as a whole.

Funny you would mention coaches, because I think that in this game Roy did a fine job managing the game, which is rare for me. Of course like Roy himself has said, when the shots are dropping it makes him look like a genius.

Enjoy the win, and I hope you lose your next two games!!

[gumbomoop]

I don't think we learned anything new about Duke. Your D is just not that good, which means you can lose to any talented team... As others have pointed out, you can also beat anyone too.

This parallels a comment K made during an interview Friday, shown late Fri eve on a special pregame GameDay segment. K said: "Carolina can beat teams easier than we can beat teams. But we can beat teams." Another way of saying UNC is better than Duke, and Duke is good.

Although I wouldn't say I learned anything totally new, my concern that Duke's porous D is made more porous by ball-watching was heightened.

Partly because this year's Duke team had to rely on 4 or 5 guys to "step up" and "replace" Nolan, Kyle, and Kyrie, I have wondered - repeatedly in several threads - exactly what "attention to detail" K referred to earlier in the season. What details, and how much attention? What I learned last evening was that either the important detail of blocking out by our perimeter players - for whom crashing the boards seems unlikely to be the smartest strategy, so stopping opposing perimeters from board-crashing seems wiser - has been given little attention, or that our perimeter guys [with probable exception of Tyler] have not been paying attention to that detail.

Congrats to ChicagoHeel and Wheat for UNC's strong performance. I'm inclined to think that one of the things that makes Heels such a good team is that they have a number of players whose instincts are more attuned to attention to detail. Last eve, for example, like noticing that they weren't being blocked out. Maybe that was merely a one-off, nothing more than a coincidence, and just one of 5 or 6 things that went right for the Heels and wrong for the Devils.

If they play next Sunday, I'll be thinking about lots of little details. Every play counts. Carolina certainly played more plays than did Duke last eve.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Enjoy the win, and I hope you lose your next two games!!

Just tweaking ya I feel pretty good this am, as you know from feeling it in game one...

Your quote above is helping to bring me back to the norm...there is always the next one, for both sides.

[jipops]

Excellent game prep/ game management from Roy Williams. One of the best coaches in the country and this game showed it. He builds teams to have balance, and last night trouble for Duke came from everywhere on the floor.

This one is rather amusing and I see where you're going here. Isn't having that balance more of a luxury than an actual skill? Who else can say they have that kind of front court and that kind of point guard? Do you honestly think if another team had it the coach wouldn't use it? Roy has done an excellent job managing this team overall this season, I mean his team did finish first in the conference. But I hardly see how this result would be different than many other coaches that had those kinds of resources in personnel. He's at UNC, he's getting balanced talent every year. Put him through a pg drought or a big man drought in recruiting and I wonder what the result would be.

I think a good argument is being made for Roy to look at shortening his rotation. Two years in a row the heels have actually improved when they lost a guy for the rest of the season. Lucky for them, neither time was it one of the major offensive players. Not saying it is the reason for improvement, but I think an argument could be made for it.