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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by dbowen View Post
    11 mins.
    1 FGA
    0 Pts.
    I may not have over 900 wins, but on a night when our offense is not hitting, why not try and get our best shooter some open looks?
    His defense may not be the best, but neither was anybody's tonight.
    I just can't believe how under utilized Dre has been in some games this year. I mean 11 mins? Cmon....
    Are we really going to start the Andre Dawkins debate again? Get the guy his own thread

  2. #42

    poor showing

    when you are not athletic, and this team is by no means athletic, you have to work harder than the rest. not only did we not work harder than the rest, we looked like a bunch of kids being awestruck by something they haven't seen before.

    i'm tired of having to shoot 3s to offset having weak athletic ability on the glass and on defense. this has been the pattern for upwards of 5 years now. get some athletes coach k because every basket we have to score requires 10x the effort that other teams need because we can't get layups and we can't get short jumpers. nobody except rivers has the ability to generate easy scores. this equation, weak athletes + outside shooting does not equal wins. it equals losses in the long run. there's a reason why we were down by 20 to nc state and won with a miracle. there is a reason why carolina has dominated us for 79 minutes this year. there is a reason why we scrape by teams like wake forest and georgia tech. the equation mentioned above!

    this duke team needs to work harder than the opposition to score and when they don't we lose. we were killed tonight. not beaten. killed. that's a fact. that's just a reality. the facts are all in the stats. look at the rebounds. look at the oppositions shooting percentage. it was UGLY!!!

    come on duke. you can win. if you try harder and leave it all on the floor because your talent is not going to win you big games from here on out because the opposition likely with have better athletes going forward in these tourney contests.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    Answering a post in the in-game thread, which is now closed. Someone said it's odd when Marshall can hit everything but Curry and Dawkins can't. I don't disagree. But Dawkins got to take one shot--at no other time when he was in the game did anyone get the ball to him when he was open, and Coach K didn't give him much time on the court. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I don't get it. When you are deep in the hole and Seth Curry is going 3-13 and Ryan Kelly is going 1-8 and even Austin Rivers is going 1-6 from 3, wouldn't you a) give Dawkins a chance, and/or b) at least suggest that someone pass to him during the few minutes that you did put him in the game?

    I really don't know what has happened between Coach K and Andre over the last two weeks, but honestly, I don't think it's a good sign for our post-season prospects. Duke depends on outside shooting, whether we like it or not, and if some folks aren't hitting, it seems like other folks need to get an opportunity. I didn't see Andre do anything so terrible on defense tonight that it justified abandoning him completely (especially since apparently no one could play good defense in the first half, with the possible exception of Miles).
    In short, no.

    You can't force things that aren't there....what looks like "open" to viewers may not be open for the players on the court. I think more than anything, K trusts the players on the court to make the best decisions. If tyler or austin or whoever else can't get it to dawkins effectivley, then forcing it is probably only going to do more harm than good.
    1200. DDMF.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    We beat them in november. and we have won some games that we had absolutely no business winning (UNC, NCSU)
    Wins in November count the same as Wins in March. Most teams don't have ANY non conference wins over top 10 teams after January.

    As for us having no business beating UNC, we led the entire first half and never trailed by more than 13 in the second. We were fortunate to win, but we were never out of the game.

    We have the type of team that can beat anybody, but lose to anybody, so it is tough to get a read on us. If you judge us by how we play to the level of our opponents, you could argue we're no better than an 8/9 seed like Miami.
    "There can BE only one."

  5. #45

    its been a very good year considering the defense

    but then there is the defense to consider

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Randolph View Post
    Are we really going to start the Andre Dawkins debate again? Get the guy his own thread
    ya, i guess we should....

    He's not gonna get any better on the bench. I think playing time is all he needs.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Shaker Heights, OH
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Nobodies saying the wins don't count...I was simply providing a justification for Mr. Gottleibs statement.

    Its not always about just winning...its often about how you win....
    Not that I'm equating our team this year to the 2001 squad, but I seem to remember that they "had no business" beating Maryland in College Park and lost a home-season closer to them later in the year. That team had no questions about how they won, and they had a 33-point turnaround in the Final Four.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Nobodies saying the wins don't count...I was simply providing a justification for Mr. Gottleibs statement.

    Its not always about just winning...its often about how you win....
    Why would you want to justify anything that idiot says. GoDuke!

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by DesertDevil View Post
    There is no way Duke misses as many open shots as they did in the first 9 minutes of tonight's game.
    I agree with a caveat. Maybe we won't miss as many open shots, but something else might happen. This team has had difficulty playing a full 40 minutes all year, and missing open shots clearly effects how well we play in all other aspects. Chris Collins, in his half time interview, said, once again, that we were knocked back by Carolina's start. I mean, how many games have has that NOT been true about. And its frustrating because, for the better part of 2 decades, most teams come out more fired up against Duke then anyone else. And in a Carolina game?

    That said, it was great that we came back, and I think that Mason and Miles (esp Miles) could gain some confidence from their 2nd half performance.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by dbowen View Post
    11 mins.
    1 FGA
    0 Pts.
    I may not have over 900 wins, but on a night when our offense is not hitting, why not try and get our best shooter some open looks?
    His defense may not be the best, but neither was anybody's tonight.
    I just can't believe how under utilized Dre has been in some games this year. I mean 11 mins? Cmon....
    Wish someone with the team would comment of why Andre is not playing...makes no sense to me when Kelly is missing and Thornton is playing so much on Barnes who ate him up

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Plumlees should gain confidence on offensive end from this game. Especially Mason. IF they do then that could be huge going forward into the tournaments. I think we will be fine around the perimeter
    Exactly. If we had gone to them more early on, instead of jacking up 3s, we might never have gotten in
    such a big hole in the first place. If/when we have the rubber game, they've shown they can play
    effectively against Zeller and Henson. With a diversified offense, we can beat them in the Tooney.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke76 View Post
    Wish someone with the team would comment of why Andre is not playing...makes no sense to me when Kelly is missing and Thornton is playing so much on Barnes who ate him up
    ??? Barnes almost shot UNC out of the game. Would have, if Duke hadn't been struggling so much offensively.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    Wins in November count the same as Wins in March. Most teams don't have ANY non conference wins over top 10 teams after January.

    As for us having no business beating UNC, we led the entire first half and never trailed by more than 13 in the second. We were fortunate to win, but we were never out of the game.

    We have the type of team that can beat anybody, but lose to anybody, so it is tough to get a read on us. If you judge us by how we play to the level of our opponents, you could argue we're no better than an 8/9 seed like Miami.
    It's tough, and in Mr. Gottleibs opinion, we have lucked out on a lot of games that we should have won comfortably. You know who else has done the same thing? Syracuse.

    If you flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, its still a 50/50 chance...just happen to have gotten "lucky"

    Now, I think that we had losses in games that we should have won (FSU, miami) and wins in games we should have lost (UNC, NCSU) so our record probably is relatively accurate. Mr. Gottleibs opinion differs. That doesn't make it "wrong" or "invalid"
    1200. DDMF.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by dbowen View Post
    ya, i guess we should....

    He's not gonna get any better on the bench. I think playing time is all he needs.
    And obviously Coach K doesn't think he deserves the minutes. And there really is no point debating what the issue is for a few reasons:

    1. We did that this past week in another thread
    2. We already know what he does and does not bring to the table when he is in
    3. We have no idea what goes on outside of the games that could effect his minutes

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Decatur, GA

    Oh, well....

    Congratulations to unc for playing up to expectations and capturing the season title. Sorry that a good effort by Miles resulted in such a sad ending on his Senior night. Good effort by the team in the second half to put the team in position for a comeback (again), even though it didn't work. I hate to see people say that they have no heart. I've never seen this team give up, no matter how big a hole they've dug themselves, they'll try to climb out of it.

    What a night shooting by the tarheels. It seemed that they would never miss, no matter what type of shot. It never seems to work that way for Duke - yeah, they may go on a run, somebody might get really hot from 3, but I can't remember a game where the TEAM was scoring effortlessly. Maybe preseason or an early season cupcake? Often, it seems that they really have to work, work, work to get anything going, and this year has been especially hard.

    On to the ACC and NCAA tourneys...

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by hq2 View Post
    Exactly. If we had gone to them more early on, instead of jacking up 3s, we might never have gotten in
    such a big hole in the first place. If/when we have the rubber game, they've shown they can play
    effectively against Zeller and Henson. With a diversified offense, we can beat them in the Tooney.
    Actually, Mason got the ball plenty of times in the first half...he was just not converting. He went up soft and unsure. The second half we fed him and he changed his mindset and went up strong and confident. That is the MP2 we want to see.
    Windy City Devil

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    The Plumlees should gain some confidence out of their second half performance, hopefully they can apply it if we do get to play UNC again. Foul trouble really hurt them but they held their own against UNC's vaunted front line. Would have liked to have played both Plumlees together more, as that would have put a lot of pressure on them inside, but we just couldn't because of fouls.

    What's with all the crazy charge calls? I've never seen anything like that. I think it wound up about even for each team, but I thought almost all of them were blocking fouls.

    We made way, way too many mistakes to have a shot at this one. Missed shots, missed layups, missed free throws, missed rebounds... if we play a near-perfect game we can beat them but it wasn't happening tonight.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    In short, no.

    You can't force things that aren't there....what looks like "open" to viewers may not be open for the players on the court. I think more than anything, K trusts the players on the court to make the best decisions. If tyler or austin or whoever else can't get it to dawkins effectivley, then forcing it is probably only going to do more harm than good.
    How about running plays for Dawkins coming off picks rather than just putting him in the corner like we did with JJ...catch and shoot...just can't fathom why is is not being used more

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC

    Good catch

    Quote Originally Posted by hq2 View Post
    Exactly. If we had gone to them more early on, instead of jacking up 3s, we might never have gotten in
    such a big hole in the first place. If/when we have the rubber game, they've shown they can play
    effectively against Zeller and Henson. With a diversified offense, we can beat them in the Tooney.
    I agree that going to them early is a good idea. Inside out is the key to our success, imo. Miles did himself proud in his last game at Cameron. Mason played with a passion that had been missing lately. Maybe this get's both on a long run through the tournaments. GoDuke!

  20. #60

    Favorite Moments

    Not many, but I loved how Zeller got a big cheer from the Crazies when he was introduced. Last game, someone posted that he only needed something like 2768 more points to become Duke's all-time leading scorer. I respect Zeller (how could you not), but that's funny, and so was the cheer following his introduction.

    I also liked how Miles got the first couple buckets for us, including a great pivot move in the post to fake Zeller out of his socks.

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