MBB: UNC-Chapel Hill 88, Duke 70, Post-Game Thread

[Billy Dat]

You knew after the first game that the Heels were dying for revenge. As it turned out, they kept their emotions in check and played amazing ball, especially in that first half. We had good looks, couldn't knock them down, the hole was too deep, etc. I knew the comeback was going to be tough when Henson started knocking down 15 footers. I also wasn't pleased to see McAdoo, untouched, swoop in for a rim rattling dunk follow on an offensive rebound.

I, too, was glad to see us fight back so strong. If that Curry 3 goes down, I agree that the Heels would have begun to panic. It was a little similar to the Black Pidgeon's 3 that went halfwway down as they were mounting a comeback in the ACC Tourny title last year.

Speaking of the Black Pidgeon, you can tell that he, more than any of the Heels, likes to try and stick it to us, and I cite as an example the "Eff You" 3 he took at the end of the game when they should have been bleeding the clock down, the one where it seemed like the refs called a foul on Curry but it was an inadvertant whistle. I can't wait for that kid to go to the NBA where he can call reporters and ask if they think he's going to make the All Rookie team.
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebask...arolina-041811

Let's hope we can both win a couple of games and play again next Sunday. The better big time games we play, the better off we'll be for the big show. This kind of feels like 2001 with Maryland...we make the epic comeback to steal game 1 on the road, get handled in Game 2, then have an epic ACC semi. Granted, we were a title favorite and Boozer broke his foot and we went on to win it all...but I think if we met again next week we'd have a better showing.

Great regular season for the team, though. It wasn't typical, but they really played great and anything can happen if we hit 3s. Half of the equation of living and dying by the 3 is living. As Al Green sang, "Since we've to be here...Let's live"

[HDB]

Excellent game prep/ game management from Roy Williams. One of the best coaches in the country and this game showed it. He builds teams to have balance, and last night trouble for Duke came from everywhere on the floor.

Defense. UNC defended with focus, something that was not always the case this season. A really good defensive team when they committ to it.

Marshall could not be contained off the dribble, made good decisions and finished when he needed to. A key to the game for sure.

Anyone still doubt Zeller as ACC POY?

Henson is the latest testament to how big men improve during their stay at UNC. Should he decide to stay next season, he'll lead NPOY preseason talk.

Duke played hard, no-one should question their effort. It was just a night where some weakness was exposed, mainly rebounding, but also at the 3 spot.

UNC forced Duke to try and beat them from inside the 3pt line, and Duke came up just 18 pts short in this one.

Wasn't Henson a top 5 recruit? He's a fine ball player but think his natural ability has more to do with his success than how he may have been developed by the UNC brain trust.

[jipops]

Henson is the latest testament to how big men improve during their stay at UNC. Should he decide to stay next season, he'll lead NPOY preseason talk.

How is Deon Thompson doing? Yea, Henson got a lot better last year after Roy switched him away from small forward back to the position he played in high school that made him a top 5 recruit. Genius. Pure Genius. And all those reps practicing that 12 footer - those are only done by players who play at UNC.

[duke09hms]

This one is rather amusing and I see where you're going here. Isn't having that balance more of a luxury than an actual skill? Who else can say they have that kind of front court and that kind of point guard? Do you honestly think if another team had it the coach wouldn't use it? Roy has done an excellent job managing this team overall this season, I mean his team did finish first in the conference. But I hardly see how this result would be different than many other coaches that had those kinds of resources in personnel. He's at UNC, he's getting balanced talent every year. Put him through a pg drought or a big man drought in recruiting and I wonder what the result would be.

I think a good argument is being made for Roy to look at shortening his rotation. Two years in a row the heels have actually improved when they lost a guy for the rest of the season. Lucky for them, neither time was it one of the major offensive players. Not saying it is the reason for improvement, but I think an argument could be made for it.

Well coaches should also get credit for building their team so that it IS balanced and all-around effective at all 5 spots.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wasn't Henson a top 5 recruit? He's a fine ball player but think his natural ability has more to do with his success than how he may have been developed by the UNC brain trust.

The difference in his game now from the time when he was a top five recruit can be measured in light years.

He's obviously got natural ability, and he's worked hard, (look at his body compared to when he came in), but it's clear he's been coached up to develope his game, in a system that displays his skills.

Just how it is...

[Class of '94]

If this has already been answered before I apologize, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on cold shooting performances of Seth Curry and Ryan Kelly in last night's game. Was it a case of being too "hyped" for the game for Seth or do you think he's playing with an undisclosed injury he might have suffered from the Wake game? Seth was short on a lot of floaters and close to basket shots that he normally makes. And what is up with the up and down nature of Ryan and Dre? Although to be fair, Ryan has played well imo for more games than not but it seems like his poor play stands out more and magnified when he's not playing well in big games like the OSU and last night's game.

[HDB]

The difference in his game now from the time when he was a top five recruit can be measured in light years.

He's obviously got natural ability, and he's worked hard, (look at his body compared to when he came in), but it's clear he's been coached up to develope his game, in a system that displays his skills.

Just how it is...

Wheat: I fully expect to see the same post from you in 2 years when UNC's development of top 10 recruit mcadoo has time to take hold. There is no substitute for great talent and UNC's roster is dripping with it. Roy certainly can recruit.

[Saratoga2]

I prefer to provide my thoughts prior to reading the many inputs in this thread and then go back and read the opinions of many contributors who I respect.

Duke is still having a relatively good season, at 26 and 5. Yes, they were thumped last night at home on senior night. You can look at the 88 points given up for the main issue, which was defense.

1. Among the defensive problems were the 2nd and third chance points given up. There were many and easily over 12.
We haven't been good at blocking players out with our bigs, and also we are very small at guard and small forward and haven't been able to block out others crashing the boards.

2. We were getting beaten inside with ball penetration and passes to their bigs, who were setting up inside, close to the basket.

3. Their bigs beat ours down the court on a few ocassions leading to easy points.

UNC shouldn't get smug, as their defense was not all that good either. We scored 70 and were missing a lot of open shots and also missing free throws. Clearly we could have easily scored in the 80's with a reasonably good shooting night. I think Ryan missed all his outside shots. Was it 7? We also missed free throws numerous times.


That said, it is apparent that Andre is in the dog house. He got a chance to take only one shot and then was back on the pine. We needed someone to provide a threat from the outside so having him sit, regardless of one mistake on defense, was a possible significant loss in our offensive punch.

Playing a 6' guard, a 6'1" guard and a 6'4" guard against 6'4", 6'7" and 6'8" players left us at a disadvantage that they were able to exploit.

The reluctance to play our small forwards much or at all this season has left us with no alternative when it comes to match ups. When Andre is also on the bench, we are just very vulnerable, especiallty to large and talented teams.

I did think Miles had a good offensive game and Mason also showed some signs of coming to life offensively. Ryan doesn't seem to match up well against UNC for some reason. Maybe his athleticism is the issue. Let us hope we can play solid games in the ACC tournament, with the bigs showing up as well as they did against UNC.

[Papa John]

The difference in his game now from the time when he was a top five recruit can be measured in light years.

He's obviously got natural ability, and he's worked hard, (look at his body compared to when he came in), but it's clear he's been coached up to develope his game, in a system that displays his skills.

Just how it is...

Henson's a punk, but he definitely has game and freakish athleticism for his size. Zeller is, in my opinion, ACC POY... He has been as consistently productive as a Swiss timepiece this year. Even as a Duke fan, I love the kid's game, and the work ethic he has demonstrated to get to where he is.

We got schooled last night... But, next play... Now we play for hardware... Let's get it on!

[Troublemaker]

It IS a little bit nauseating to see Roy trumpeting his team's "fight" for bouncing back from the Duke and FSU losses. 4 lottery picks. Shut up.

Still, much credit to them for that first half. With the way we played, we needed UNC to help out and be only 80% efficient in taking advantage of their opportunities so we could escape to halftime with only a 14-pt deficit or so. If the lead were 14, that game's a toss-up. But they took advantage of every opportunity it seemed like, and the lead was 24. Game over.

Great to see Miles playing so well on Senior Night.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

How is Deon Thompson doing? Yea, Henson got a lot better last year after Roy switched him away from small forward back to the position he played in high school that made him a top 5 recruit. Genius. Pure Genius. And all those reps practicing that 12 footer - those are only done by players who play at UNC.

I think Deon is doing very well, making some serious money in Europe last I heard.

Deon came in overweight, with nice hands..no major expectations. He left as a national champ and solid starter with well rounded offensive post game. Good enough, for me.

[Devilsfan]

Ryan and Dre are playing hard. Well Ryan is. But he is a glue man or a top level role player. Dre is a catch and shoot role player. What's missing is the two or three super stars we are all used to seeing at Duke. We are two, "one or two and dones" away from being a Ky. or 'cuse this year IMO. This team has OVERACHIEVED! They and Coach K should be commended not criticized for this years performance. But we are spoiled. We expect perfection. There is nothing wrong with this because "We are Duke". Now coaches, do the rest of your job and get us the missing link(s) to be the BEST. Not an easy task, I know, and you should probably be paid a combined $6-$7 million for doing this.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wheat: I fully expect to see the same post from you in 2 years when UNC's development of top 10 recruit mcadoo has time to take hold. There is no substitute for great talent and UNC's roster is dripping with it. Roy certainly can recruit.

McAdoo is another good example, no matter what he was ranked. He's certainly improving every day.

A good big man to watch develope as we move forward will be Joel James next season. He has Deon like expectations,or less.

Let's see what Roy and UNC staff do with him.

[Saratoga2]

Answering a post in the in-game thread, which is now closed. Someone said it's odd when Marshall can hit everything but Curry and Dawkins can't. I don't disagree. But Dawkins got to take one shot--at no other time when he was in the game did anyone get the ball to him when he was open, and Coach K didn't give him much time on the court. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I don't get it. When you are deep in the hole and Seth Curry is going 3-13 and Ryan Kelly is going 1-8 and even Austin Rivers is going 1-6 from 3, wouldn't you a) give Dawkins a chance, and/or b) at least suggest that someone pass to him during the few minutes that you did put him in the game?

I really don't know what has happened between Coach K and Andre over the last two weeks, but honestly, I don't think it's a good sign for our post-season prospects. Duke depends on outside shooting, whether we like it or not, and if some folks aren't hitting, it seems like other folks need to get an opportunity. I didn't see Andre do anything so terrible on defense tonight that it justified abandoning him completely (especially since apparently no one could play good defense in the first half, with the possible exception of Miles).

Whatever is going on between Andre and the coaching staff, they seem to have abandoned him and left us without a needed weapon. I do believe Andre made an early defensive mistake, but so did many others.

[Bob Green]

Isn't having that balance more of a luxury than an actual skill? Who else can say they have that kind of front court and that kind of point guard?

To be fair, Coach Williams must be given credit for successful recruiting. He has dominant post players, a top notch point guard and dominant wing players because he hit the recruiting trail and brought the pieces to Chapel Hill.

I think a good argument is being made for Roy to look at shortening his rotation. Two years in a row the heels have actually improved when they lost a guy for the rest of the season. Lucky for them, neither time was it one of the major offensive players. Not saying it is the reason for improvement, but I think an argument could be made for it.

I completely agree with you here. A persistent criticism I have had toward Coach Williams is his long rotation. Simply stated, he plays too many players too many minutes. His hand has been forced by injuries the last two years and the shortened rotation is paying dividends.

[jipops]

I think Deon is doing very well, making some serious money in Europe last I heard.

Deon came in overweight, with nice hands..no major expectations. He left as a national champ and solid starter with well rounded offensive post game. Good enough, for me.

Yes he did. And he had a post game coming in. Also left having not improved defensively and unfulfilled from learning any type of leadership role which was expected his senior year.

I just had to bite on this because the argument that certain programs develop certain positions better than others constantly has me shaking my head. It has so much more to do with the individual player than the coach or even the system. Otherwise, Dave Odom must be a coaching genius. My point of bringing up Deon is, if UNC is so great at developing its bigs, why isn't every big man it has recruited a huge success in the way Henson and Zeller are? Every major div1 program works their players hard, every major program works on fundamentals and builds on players' strengths. That's part of why they are major programs. Sure Henson thrives in UNC's pass ahead uptempo style, the kid is a freakish 6-10 gazelle. When you're a program that has a near constant influx of balanced talent, it seems to create the perception that the program is excellent at developing it as opposed to if that program had never gotten that talent in the 1st place. Otherwise, should K get credit for making Kyrie a #1 pick?

Roy (and his staff) is very good at what he does. There is no dispute there. I just don't see anything that makes him unique from so many other coaches.

[Saratoga2]

I hope there are no meltdowns here. There is no reason for one. Though it was a painful loss to UNC (as if any to UNC aren't extemely painful) there is a ton to be proud of with this group. For 3 halves this season we have gone toe-to-toe with what is arguably the best team in the country employing an abundance of NBA-ready talent. Matchup-wise there is no way we should be hanging with these guys but with the exception of one one-sided half we did.

Great work by our bigs tonight. Obviously all they do in practice is try to set screens UNC's just showed they have more talent tonight. And it was a great job by the heels perimeter D to take away the 3 in the 1st half. Also kind of lucky for Duke that Roy got in 'horde the timeouts' mode so Duke could make a push.

Most of Ryan's shots were wide open. He just missed all of the 3's.

[Bob Green]

Anyone still doubt Zeller as ACC POY?

Coach Krzyzewski agrees with you and it is hard to argue with the Man.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/tee...tory?track=rss

[jipops]

To be fair, Coach Williams must be given credit for successful recruiting. He has dominant post players, a top notch point guard and dominant wing players because he hit the recruiting trail and brought the pieces to Chapel Hill.

I think this aspect of Roy is a little over-rated as well. Case in point - Matt Doherty - what about the great class he brought in during his short stint? Recruiting for UNC is quite a bit easier than it is for most other programs. I would actually say that a coach for UNC actually doesn't have to work as hard in recruiting as others. UNC is a favorite among many kids growing up, it's one of the more popular programs out there nationally. It built it's reputation long before the 24hr sports media - and Roy has been reaping the benefits of this.

I'm not saying Roy doesn't work hard at this, I'm quite sure he does. But if his recruiting pitches are anything like his press conferences, then UNC must be coming in with the upper hand already.

[Kfanarmy]

Seen people giving UNC credit for defense a couple of times in this thread... I didn't see it. Duke lost this game in the 1st ten minutes through bad shooting and watching the ball in the air instead of blocking out, thats about it...most of the shots in the 1st ten minutes were wide open. Carolina's height is a physical fact, aside from recruiting, it isn't to the coaching credit of coach Williams that a 6'7" player can shoot over a 6'1" player. I do however give him credit for getting his guys to attack the glass when a shot is in the air...really hard to understand why some of Duke's guards get caught watching to see if the ball is going in while the other team is in the air for the rebound. If Duke just hits 3 more shots over the 1st ten minutes, they likely win this game...Carolina was ready to fold when Duke got it to 11 and was given heart when Duke couldn't hit the shot to take it under ten...I think a rematch would be a 50-50 proposition. I do think Duke guards have to work harder, but that is solely about height. Carolina simply isn't significantly better at defense than Duke.